Nothing surprising here (Duke named top program since 2000-01)

[Olympic Fan]

Bobby and Shelden are the only guys on that list not to be consensus NPOY. Makes me wonder a bit about ranking Bobby so highly.

Not to nit-pick, but Johnny Dawkins was not the consensus NPOY -- he won the Naismith Award in 1986 (which is a major NPOY Award), but that was the only one. Walter Berry of St. John's won every other NPOY and was the consensus NPOY. And Ferry shared the consensus NPOY honors with Sean Elliott of Arizona in 1989 -- each won three of the major NPOY awards that the NCAA used to determine consensus status (the awards that count towards consensus status change occasionally).

If I picked a top 10 under K, I'd reward the four-year guys and base it on their contribution at Duke:

1. Laettner
2. Dawkins
3. Battier
4. Grant Hill
5. Hurley
6. Ferry
7. Redick
8. Jason Williams
9. Shelden Williams
10. Brand

[luburch]

I came across this today.
https://www.whatifsports.com/locker/simulations.shtm


It's a 'What-If' sports simulation that lets pick a year and a team and play it against anyone. I didn't see a description for how they determined a winner, but there may be one somewhere.

It's a fun website to kill some time on, if nothing else.

[cptnflash]

Not to nit-pick, but Johnny Dawkins was not the consensus NPOY -- he won the Naismith Award in 1986 (which is a major NPOY Award), but that was the only one. Walter Berry of St. John's won every other NPOY and was the consensus NPOY. And Ferry shared the consensus NPOY honors with Sean Elliott of Arizona in 1989 -- each won three of the major NPOY awards that the NCAA used to determine consensus status (the awards that count towards consensus status change occasionally).

If I picked a top 10 under K, I'd reward the four-year guys and base it on their contribution at Duke:

1. Laettner
2. Dawkins
3. Battier
4. Grant Hill
5. Hurley
6. Ferry
7. Redick
8. Jason Williams
9. Shelden Williams
10. Brand

I agree with your approach, and as such, I just can't do a top 10 all time list without Kyle on it. 4-year player, Final 4 MOP, in the top 10 all time in just about every major statistical category, played more games as a Duke player than anyone ever, 125-23 overall record, 30-2 conference record at home, and had a winning record overall against UNC despite his career coinciding with the last time they were really good. I would put Kyle in at #9, bump Shelden to #10, and bump Elton off. I realize peak Kyle wasn't as dominant as peak Shelden or peak Brand, but for me it's all about area under the curve. No quarrels with the rest of your rankings, so my list would be:

1. Laettner
2. Dawkins
3. Battier
4. Grant Hill
5. Hurley
6. Ferry
7. Redick
8. Jason Williams
9. Kyle Singler
10. Shelden Williams

Edit: And he has to hold the all time record for most stitches in the face earned in the line of duty. That's gotta count for something.

[duke blue brewcrew]

Not to nit-pick, but Johnny Dawkins was not the consensus NPOY -- he won the Naismith Award in 1986 (which is a major NPOY Award), but that was the only one. Walter Berry of St. John's won every other NPOY and was the consensus NPOY. And Ferry shared the consensus NPOY honors with Sean Elliott of Arizona in 1989 -- each won three of the major NPOY awards that the NCAA used to determine consensus status (the awards that count towards consensus status change occasionally).

If I picked a top 10 under K, I'd reward the four-year guys and base it on their contribution at Duke:

1. Laettner
2. Dawkins
3. Battier
4. Grant Hill
5. Hurley
6. Ferry
7. Redick
8. Jason Williams
9. Shelden Williams
10. Brand

I mostly agree with your post and player list/rankings. Without sounding like I'm trying to nitpick at your comment, I couldn't care less if Dawkins was a consensus NPOY. IF Dawkins had the benefit of a 3 point line, he would STILL be the all time scoring leader in Duke history. Additionally, when you speak of contributions to Duke, did anyone contribute more than Johnny D?! He got it all started for Coach K, and more importantly to me personally, was my childhood hero

[Bluedog]

The 14 consensus First Team All-America selections under Coach K include:

1. Dawkins
2. Ferry
3. Laettner
4. Hurley
5. Hill
6. Brand
7. Carrawell
8. Battier
9. J Will
10. Redick
11. Shelden
12. Nolan
13. Jabari
14. Okafor

No love for Carrawell or Nolan...

(Not saying that this is the same as determining "best players under Coach K" though. Just interesting to look at to see who was perceived as being a one of the best contributors in the nation in a single given season -- note that Kyle unfortunately is not on the above list. He was the pre-season player of the year, though...)

[sagegrouse]

The 14 consensus First Team All-America selections under Coach K include:

1. Dawkins
2. Ferry
3. Laettner
4. Hurley
5. Hill
6. Brand
7. Carrawell
8. Battier
9. J Will
10. Redick
11. Shelden
12. Nolan
13. Jabari
14. Okafor

No love for Carrawell or Nolan...

(Not saying that this is the same as determining "best players under Coach K" though. Just interesting to look at to see who was perceived as being a one of the best contributors in the nation in a single given season -- note that Kyle unfortunately is not on the above list. He was the pre-season player of the year, though...)

Interesting list of those who were two-time All-Americans (at least 2nd team consensus):
Dawkins
Ferry
Laettner
Hill
Battier
JWill
Redick

(To which we can add Groat, Heyman, Verga and Gminski)

[Edouble]

The 14 consensus First Team All-America selections under Coach K include:

1. Dawkins
2. Ferry
3. Laettner
4. Hurley
5. Hill
6. Brand
   
7. Carrawell
8. Battier
9. J Will
10. Redick
11. Shelden
12. Nolan
13. Jabari
14. Okafor

No love for Carrawell or Nolan...

(Not saying that this is the same as determining "best players under Coach K" though. Just interesting to look at to see who was perceived as being a one of the best contributors in the nation in a single given season -- note that Kyle unfortunately is not on the above list. He was the pre-season player of the year, though...)

Needs some explanation.

[Edouble]

Complaining about UConn's 2011 champion smacks of the same kind of sour grapes that we get from Kentucky fans -- two nights after Arizona dumped Duke in the Sweet 16, UConn knocked off the Wildcats.

And, El Diablo, totally disagree about the start oft the 21st Century .. Jan. 1, 2000 was the Y2K year. And, yes, I know there was never a year "0" ... but in point of fact, there was never a year "1" either ... the numerical year designations came much, much later.

Not complaining... just commenting on relative strength of NC teams. If jbay201 thinks that Kentucky 2012 squeaks by, I would point him to the two UConn teams, which I think were much weaker by comparison.

If you want complaining, check the post that I was commenting on in the first place.

UK failed to get it done the majority of time when it mattered in April with their only successful season coming with Anthony Davis and relatively weak overall field. As for UNC, they're NC count needs to be adjusted to 0 as well as FF to 0 as all those players were ineligible due to their scandal which knocks them out of the top 15.

It's weird for you to pick out my post for "complaining" but let this one slide right by.

[JohnJ]

I mostly agree with your post and player list/rankings. Without sounding like I'm trying to nitpick at your comment, I couldn't care less if Dawkins was a consensus NPOY. IF Dawkins had the benefit of a 3 point line, he would STILL be the all time scoring leader in Duke history. Additionally, when you speak of contributions to Duke, did anyone contribute more than Johnny D?! He got it all started for Coach K, and more importantly to me personally, was my childhood hero

Dawkins DID actually have the benefit of 3pt shot duRing ACC play in 1982-83 making 19 of 54 shots.

Also, Bob Verga says hi and if only he was eligible as a freshman and had a 3 pt line no telling where he would have ended up. But I digress...

[duke blue brewcrew]

Dawkins DID actually have the benefit of 3pt shot duRing ACC play in 1982-83 making 19 of 54 shots.

Also, Bob Verga says hi and if only he was eligible as a freshman and had a 3 pt line no telling where he would have ended up. But I digress...

OK fair enough, Dawkins had ONE year vs. JJ's FOUR...thanks for helping clarify my inaccuracy.

[Bluedog]

The 14 consensus First Team All-America selections under Coach K include:

1. Dawkins
2. Ferry
3. Laettner
4. Hurley
5. Hill
6. Brand
7. Carrawell
8. Battier
9. J Will
10. Redick
11. Shelden
12. Nolan
13. Jabari
14. Okafor

No love for Carrawell or Nolan...

(Not saying that this is the same as determining "best players under Coach K" though. Just interesting to look at to see who was perceived as being a one of the best contributors in the nation in a single given season -- note that Kyle unfortunately is not on the above list. He was the pre-season player of the year, though...)

Needs some explanation.

Sorry for being unclear. I was saying there is no love for Carrawell HERE on this thread despite being one of only 14 players under Coach K to be a consensus First Team All-America. Same with Nolan. (He did get love at the time by the media/coaches for being on the list clearly). I guess it's because many fans value consistently high contributions over the course of four years rather than what somebody achieved at his apex (although Elton was only at Duke for 2 years and appears on many people's lists).

[sagegrouse]

Interesting list of those who were two-time All-Americans (at least 2nd team consensus):
Dawkins
Ferry
Laettner
Hill
Battier
JWill
Redick

(To which we can add Groat, Heyman, Verga and Gminski)

Gee, whose jersey is not retired?

[CDu]

Sorry for being unclear. I was saying there is no love for Carrawell HERE on this thread despite being one of only 14 players under Coach K to be a consensus First Team All-America. Same with Nolan. (He did get love at the time by the media/coaches for being on the list clearly). I guess it's because many fans value consistently high contributions over the course of four years rather than what somebody achieved at his apex (although Elton was only at Duke for 2 years and appears on many people's lists).

Carrawell gets dinged because he was a role player for 3 years and then really good (but on a team that overachieved in the regular season before an early tourney exit) for one year. Frankly, it's just hard to put him in a list of top-12 in the Coach K era based on that one year. Brand, who is on some folks' lists, had a better one year than Carrawell's best year. He also had a better best year than Smith (NPoY), which is why he gets on lists ahead of those two even though his career was shorter.

Smith is, in my opinion, a slightly more interesting case. Whereas Carrawell was generally a starter all four years, Smith was a reserve for most of his first two years at Duke. He then exploded with two really good years as an upperclassman. I would say that the apex of his career was better than Carrawell's, but Carrawell's overall body of work may have been as good. But again, his best two years don't quite match Elton's best two years.

Basically, when you have seven guys who won at least one NPoY honor and two guys (Battier obviously makes both lists, so eight total) who have won multiple NDPoY awards, and another guy who won NDPoY and came within an inch or two of winning three national championships, it's really hard to get much love on the "best of Coach K era" lists. There is only 1 spot in the top-10 available for players who didn't fit one of those categories above, and there are LOTS of good candidates.

[Rich]

Have you tried Google for this one?

Here ya go -- http://bfy.tw/1Pgn

[royalblue]

Grant Hill being #8 on the top 10 K player list is way off in my book. I'm not sure 1 player carried a Duke team any better than Hill in his final Duke season. He willed a team that was not that strong to play on Monday night and was a Scottie Thurman
3 pointer from having 3 rings and in the argument for greatest Duke player ever. I refuse to give the ST 3 the power of taking Grant from at least 2nd or 3rd to #8.
I would like to hear from some of the board visitors because I feel that is just too far off base.

[Olympic Fan]

Grant Hill being #8 on the top 10 K player list is way off in my book. I'm not sure 1 player carried a Duke team any better than Hill in his final Duke season. He willed a team that was not that strong to play on Monday night and was a Scottie Thurman
3 pointer from having 3 rings and in the argument for greatest Duke player ever. I refuse to give the ST 3 the power of taking Grant from at least 2nd or 3rd to #8.
I would like to hear from some of the board visitors because I feel that is just too far off base.

I assume you are responding to the original Sporting News list, which was made by some 22-year-old fan boy. It's absurd -- picking JJ ahead of Johnny D, Grant or Battier, for instance, displays the lack of judgment and Duke basketball knowledge behind the list.

Read this thread ... no fan who has posted here had picked Grant lower than fifth. Personally, I picked Grant fourth ... he was certainly a key player in 1994. He did play a key role on two national title teams -- although to be fair, he was the No. 3 player on those two teams. Well, most of the time ... he stepped up late in the 1992 title game and made the difference. I still think the four-year contributions of Laettner, Dawkins and Battier were greater, but obviously, that's debatable.

[luvdahops]

I assume you are responding to the original Sporting News list, which was made by some 22-year-old fan boy. It's absurd -- picking JJ ahead of Johnny D, Grant or Battier, for instance, displays the lack of judgment and Duke basketball knowledge behind the list.

Read this thread ... no fan who has posted here had picked Grant lower than fifth. Personally, I picked Grant fourth ... he was certainly a key player in 1994. He did play a key role on two national title teams -- although to be fair, he was the No. 3 player on those two teams. Well, most of the time ... he stepped up late in the 1992 title game and made the difference. I still think the four-year contributions of Laettner, Dawkins and Battier were greater, but obviously, that's debatable.

In my view, Grant should rank just behind Johnny D at #3, though not by much. I would disagree strongly with your assertion that Battier had a better four-year career. Grant was a star from the get-go, while Shane was a role player for his first 2 (maybe 2.5) years. I was at a dinner recently with Bob Hurley, Sr., and in his view, Grant's addition was far and away the biggest factor in Duke going from being hammered by UNLV in 1990 to knocking them off and winning the title in 1991. Hurley also said that, as great as Laettner and Bobby were, they never would have won titles without Grant. He was just that good and that versatile, and everyone associated with the program knew it right away. So saying he was the No. 3 player on those teams might be selling him short.

[royalblue]

Grant in 94 is the only one of the those top players to really have a chance to carry a team on his back that did not have other great players with him that year good yes great no. Grant did put a muzzle on the big dog in the round of 8.If Lang just had not trimmed his nails that week.
21 years later and I still can not let go

[duke blue brewcrew]

This is fun to watch! I forgot how much Dawkins loved the Reverse Jam. Such a crafty scorer, who in my opinion could do it all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y50kQ5GOROs

[-jk]

This is fun to watch! I forgot how much Dawkins loved the Reverse Jam. Such a crafty scorer, who in my opinion could do it all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y50kQ5GOROs

Brings back memories: Short shorts! Sound baffles in Cameron! Flowy ball! Greensboro in Duke Blue! K with black hair! (Oh, wait...)

-jk