Phil Jackson takes a shot...

[rhcpflea99]

At best, the Knicks would get the first pick and tab center Jahlil Okafor, although Jackson thinks he might not be aggressive enough. "Also, if you look at the guys who came to the NBA from Duke, aside from Grant Hill, which ones lived up to expectations?"

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13...shook-new-york

Not sure if that is a shot at Coach K or Phil is just losing his mind.

[Jeffrey]

Boozer exceeded expectations.

[phaedrus]

Exceeded:
Boozer
Redick
Randolph
Kyrie
Miles Plumlee
Lance

Didn't meet:

S. Williams
Nolan

Withholding judgment:

Rivers

Everyone else (since '99) has more or less met my expectations.

[sagegrouse]

At best, the Knicks would get the first pick and tab center Jahlil Okafor, although Jackson thinks he might not be aggressive enough. "Also, if you look at the guys who came to the NBA from Duke, aside from Grant Hill, which ones lived up to expectations?"

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13...shook-new-york

Not sure if that is a shot at Coach K or Phil is just losing his mind.

This appears to be from an article from January 10 after J.R. and Shumpert were traded to the Cavs.

The Duke quote appears to be a rhetorical question and not especially a shot.

I am not sure why this outdated reference should be a thread.

[Jeffrey]

Didn't meet:

S. Williams
Nolan

I think that list is much longer starting with the greatest to play at Duke. Then adding key injuries (Hurley, J. Williams, etc.) and Ferry.

[phaedrus]

I was starting at '99, since that's when I started having expectations about NBA success.

[roywhite]

I think that list is much longer starting with the greatest to play at Duke. Then adding key injuries (Hurley, J. Williams, etc.) and Ferry.

Are you referring to Art Heyman?

If so, that would make some sense, at least to explain Jackson's perception. Jackson was only 4 years younger than Heyman.

[Jeffrey]

I was starting at '99, since that's when I started having expectations about NBA success.

Do you truly believe Kyrie has exceeded expectations? He was the best PG in college hoops as a November & early Dec. Freshman.

[Jeffrey]

Are you referring to Art Heyman?

If so, that would make some sense, at least to explain Jackson's perception. Jackson was only 4 years younger than Heyman.

Thanks, I needed that!

[Reilly]

If you compare the player's "win shares" ranking for their draft class against what number pick the player was, quite a few in the K era have exceeded expectations.

Banks - 14th in win shares, 28th pick
Dennard - 39/78th
Brian Davis - 43/48th
Mason - 2/22nd
Corey - 10/13th
Battier - 5/6th
Booz - 2/24th
Deng - 3/7th
Duhon - 20/38th
McRoberts - 20/37
JJ - 7/11th
Singler - 20/33rd
Ryan Kelly - 17/48th
Hood - 4/23rd
Miles - 15/26th

Grant Hill met expectations: 3rd in win shares/3rd pick

Kyrie has come close: 2nd in win shares/1st pick
Elton - same: 2/1
Johnny D was 14/10

Hurley, Avery, and Nolan ended up with the worst "win shares" number for their draft classes.

[Billy Dat]

As his recent behavior has indicated, Big Chief Triangle is living in a 2009 world.

[Highlander]

If you compare the player's "win shares" ranking for their draft class against what number pick the player was, quite a few in the K era have exceeded expectations.

Banks - 14th in win shares, 28th pick
Dennard - 39/78th
Brian Davis - 43/48th
Mason - 2/22nd
Corey - 10/13th
Battier - 5/6th
Booz - 2/24th
Deng - 3/7th
Duhon - 20/38th
McRoberts - 20/37
JJ - 7/11th
Singler - 20/33rd
Ryan Kelly - 17/48th
Hood - 4/23rd
Miles - 15/26th

Grant Hill met expectations: 3rd in win shares/3rd pick

Kyrie has come close: 2nd in win shares/1st pick
Elton - same: 2/1
Johnny D was 14/10

Hurley, Avery, and Nolan ended up with the worst "win shares" number for their draft classes.

We've been down this road before, and I don't want to rehash those arguments, but I would note that Laettner and Ferry haven't been mentioned. They certainly get a bad rap as the poster boys for Duke All Americans who didn't pan out in the pro's (unfair or no). And Phil played against both while he was coach of the Bulls. Do you have their respective win share #s?

[Jeffrey]

We've been down this road before, and I don't want to rehash those arguments, but I would note that Laettner and Ferry haven't been mentioned. They certainly get a bad rap as the poster boys for Duke All Americans who didn't pan out in the pro's (unfair or no). And Phil played against both while he was coach of the Bulls. Do you have their respective win share #s?

I agree, those two would have been high on Phil's list.

[sagegrouse]

We've been down this road before, and I don't want to rehash those arguments, but I would note that Laettner and Ferry haven't been mentioned. They certainly get a bad rap as the poster boys for Duke All Americans who didn't pan out in the pro's (unfair or no). And Phil played against both while he was coach of the Bulls. Do you have their respective win share #s?

I agree, those two would have been high on Phil's list.

I have done a detailed analysis, in the manner of St. Thomas Aquinas, in looking at the "Vertical and Horizontal Equality" of Christian Laettner and other players.

Vertical Equality: In terms of the 1992 draft, #3 pick Laettner, in comparison to the top 15 picks, was #4 in points, #4 in rebounds and #4 in assists. Other players from that draft, who were below Christian but did about as well were #4 Jimmy Jackson, #6 Tom Gugliotta, and #9 Clarence Weatherspoon. Laettner clearly had a less impactful career than #1 Shaquille and # 2 Alonzo -- duh! -- he did well in comparison to others in the 1992 draft.

Horizontal Equality: I also looked at Christian in comparison to the #3 picks from 1984 (Jordan) through 1998 (LaFrentz). Of the 15 #3 selections, Christian was # 7 in points, # 3 in rebounds, and #6 in assists. Clearly, in terms of "horizontal equality," Christian exceeded the average performance of # 3 picks. Lots of rebounds and lots of assists seems to be a rare combination (Jordan was # 1 in both and Grant was # 5 in rebounds and # 3 in assists).

Christian Laettner was a good, solid # 3 pick in the draft, both compared to his peers in the 1992 draft and the other players picked at # 3.

[duke blue brewcrew]

Exceeded:
Boozer
Redick
Randolph
Kyrie
Miles Plumlee
Lance

Didn't meet:

S. Williams
Nolan

Withholding judgment:

Rivers

Everyone else (since '99) has more or less met my expectations.

Off the top of my head, two glaring omissions from the exceeds expectations column include: Brand, Deng. Both have been All-Stars
Meets Expectations - Mike Dunleavy

[Duvall]

We've been down this road before, and I don't want to rehash those arguments, but I would note that Laettner and Ferry haven't been mentioned. They certainly get a bad rap as the poster boys for Duke All Americans who didn't pan out in the pro's (unfair or no). And Phil played against both while he was coach of the Bulls. Do you have their respective win share #s?

Laettner, drafted 3rd, is 5th in win shares behind Shaq, Mourning, Robert Horry, and P.J. Brown. Not too bad, probably would have ended up higher without the Achilles.

Ferry, drafted 2nd, was 11th. Not good.

[Reilly]

...

Ferry, drafted 2nd, was 11th. Not good.

... and yet better than Pervis Ellison (17th win shares/1st pick; JR Reid 16th WS/5th pick; Stacey King 22nd WS/6th pick; and Randy White 29 WS/8th pick).

[OldPhiKap]

^^^^^. AAARRGGHHHH!!!!!!!! Don't say that name! You know how much more therapy is gonna cost?!?

[phaedrus]

Do you truly believe Kyrie has exceeded expectations? He was the best PG in college hoops as a November & early Dec. Freshman.

I expected he would eventually be one of the top PGs in the league, but not that he would almost immediately be one of the most electrifying offensive players in the league. Might be more accurate to say that he exceeded expectations his first two years, but merely met (very high) expectations his third and fourth years.

[Steven43]

I have done a detailed analysis, in the manner of St. Thomas Aquinas, in looking at the "Vertical and Horizontal Equality" of Christian Laettner and other players.

Vertical Equality: In terms of the 1992 draft, #3 pick Laettner, in comparison to the top 15 picks, was #4 in points, #4 in rebounds and #4 in assists. Other players from that draft, who were below Christian but did about as well were #4 Jimmy Jackson, #6 Tom Gugliotta, and #9 Clarence Weatherspoon. Laettner clearly had a less impactful career than #1 Shaquille and # 2 Alonzo -- duh! -- he did well in comparison to others in the 1992 draft.

Horizontal Equality: I also looked at Christian in comparison to the #3 picks from 1984 (Jordan) through 1998 (LaFrentz). Of the 15 #3 selections, Christian was # 7 in points, # 3 in rebounds, and #6 in assists. Clearly, in terms of "horizontal equality," Christian exceeded the average performance of # 3 picks. Lots of rebounds and lots of assists seems to be a rare combination (Jordan was # 1 in both and Grant was # 5 in rebounds and # 3 in assists).

Christian Laettner was a good, solid # 3 pick in the draft, both compared to his peers in the 1992 draft and the other players picked at # 3.

This is basically what I have tried to explain to people--though I have not had the informative statistics you provided--when Christian gets mentioned as having been a failure in the NBA. I don't understand why he is perceived that way, and it bothers me.

I suspect a big part of the reason is the fact that he went to Duke and he's white. I don't have anything to back that up; just my perception. I really wish all the Duke-bashing would stop. It wasn't this way before 2001. I don't see why it has to continue forever. I'm tired of it.

Why aren't the other Blue Blood schools and their players held to the same standard as Duke? It's ridiculous.