Food for thought: Is this year's team a Boeheim dream come true?

[CDu]

I realize that at this time last year the idea of the 2-3 zone at Duke was tantamount to sacrilege. But then this past season happened, and the 2-3 zone was a very relevant part of the team's approach for the second half of the season. And in spite of that, the sun rose the next day and life went on. And hey, we even won a title!

So stay with me for a second. Could we see even MORE of the 2-3 zone this year? In looking at the roster, I see a team that is almost tailor-made for the 2-3 zone. We have two very long, athletic forwards in Jefferson and Ingram. We have good size on the perimeter. We can rotate 3 big men who provide either great length (Jeter), great rebounding (Obi), or decent length and great energy (Plumlee). Our back line would be a nightmare of long arms challenging shots. And on the perimeter, we'd be pretty well stocked as well.

Now, before the flames start flying, I know we aren't going to become a predominantly zone team. But I can't help but wonder if this team isn't well-suited to play a fair amount of it this coming season.

Your thoughts?

[BD80]

I realize that at this time last year the idea of the 2-3 zone at Duke was tantamount to sacrilege. But then this past season happened, and the 2-3 zone was a very relevant part of the team's approach for the second half of the season. And in spite of that, the sun rose the next day and life went on. And hey, we even won a title!

So stay with me for a second. Could we see even MORE of the 2-3 zone this year? In looking at the roster, I see a team that is almost tailor-made for the 2-3 zone. We have two very long, athletic forwards in Jefferson and Ingram. We have good size on the perimeter. We can rotate 3 big men who provide either great length (Jeter), great rebounding (Obi), or decent length and great energy (Plumlee). Our back line would be a nightmare of long arms challenging shots. And on the perimeter, we'd be pretty well stocked as well.

Now, before the flames start flying, I know we aren't going to become a predominantly zone team. But I can't help but wonder if this team isn't well-suited to play a fair amount of it this coming season.

Your thoughts?

A year ago you would have received a time-out for trolling.

[Wander]

I think for Coach K to play a zone, it's not enough for the roster to just be well-suited to a zone. They have to specifically be having problems with man-to-man. We already know that Jefferson can play excellent M2M and presumably Plumlee and Obi can provide help defense and rebounding respectively in M2M as well. So I think it really depends on how the incoming guards and Allen are defensively. If Thornton and Kennard and Allen are getting beat off the dribble all the time then I think we can see some zone, but if they are decent defensively then I doubt we'll see much of it.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I realize that at this time last year the idea of the 2-3 zone at Duke was tantamount to sacrilege. But then this past season happened, and the 2-3 zone was a very relevant part of the team's approach for the second half of the season. And in spite of that, the sun rose the next day and life went on. And hey, we even won a title!

So stay with me for a second. Could we see even MORE of the 2-3 zone this year? In looking at the roster, I see a team that is almost tailor-made for the 2-3 zone. We have two very long, athletic forwards in Jefferson and Ingram. We have good size on the perimeter. We can rotate 3 big men who provide either great length (Jeter), great rebounding (Obi), or decent length and great energy (Plumlee). Our back line would be a nightmare of long arms challenging shots. And on the perimeter, we'd be pretty well stocked as well.

Now, before the flames start flying, I know we aren't going to become a predominantly zone team. But I can't help but wonder if this team isn't well-suited to play a fair amount of it this coming season.

Your thoughts?

In short, no. And I agree with you that we have the perfect personnel for the zone.

But Coach K doesn't like zone at all and will only implement it in long stretches when it is absolutely necessary. In the beginning of ACC play, this Duke team was atrocious at D (okay, Okafor and the guards were atrocious at the pick and roll). But as we went into the post season, the zone went away because the guards got so much better at staying in front of their man and M. Jones / Winslow were able to cover some of Okafor's defensive deficiencies. If I recall correctly, we only played a few possessions of zone in the NCAA tournament.

I don't think Coach K is bad at the zone or thinks that the zone is not effective; it's just not his bread-and-butter. He has a system that's carried him for decades and it's proven despite changes in the game. Hell, he won last year using man-to-man. And with a higher emphasis on 3pt shooting than ever before, the zone seems even more unlikely for Coach K.

[OldPhiKap]

If you get really enthusiastic about the potential of us playing zone, does that mean you are experiencing a Boeheimian Rhapsody?



(Sorry, I'll show myself out . . . .)

[peloton]

If you get really enthusiastic about the potential of us playing zone, does that mean you are experiencing a Boeheimian Rhapsody?

OldPhiKap, fortunately I wasn't drinking milk when I read this.

[devildeac]

If you get really enthusiastic about the potential of us playing zone, does that mean you are experiencing a Boeheimian Rhapsody?



(Sorry, I'll show myself out . . . .)

Well, "Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me, for me, for me."

[gep]

In short, no. And I agree with you that we have the perfect personnel for the zone.

But Coach K doesn't like zone at all and will only implement it in long stretches when it is absolutely necessary. In the beginning of ACC play, this Duke team was atrocious at D (okay, Okafor and the guards were atrocious at the pick and roll). But as we went into the post season, the zone went away because the guards got so much better at staying in front of their man and M. Jones / Winslow were able to cover some of Okafor's defensive deficiencies. If I recall correctly, we only played a few possessions of zone in the NCAA tournament.

I don't think Coach K is bad at the zone or thinks that the zone is not effective; it's just not his bread-and-butter. He has a system that's carried him for decades and it's proven despite changes in the game. Hell, he won last year using man-to-man. And with a higher emphasis on 3pt shooting than ever before, the zone seems even more unlikely for Coach K.

One thing I thought in previous years that Coach K (or others) said that it takes time to develop a zone defense... and Coach K wanted to use the time to refine the M2M defense. What's interesting to me is how well and how fast last year's team picked up the zone defense very effectively. So even with players that are "made for the zone", if they cannot pick up the zone principles, it probably won't work.

[flyingdutchdevil]

One thing I thought in previous years that Coach K (or others) said that it takes time to develop a zone defense... and Coach K wanted to use the time to refine the M2M defense. What's interesting to me is how well and how fast last year's team picked up the zone defense very effectively. So even with players that are "made for the zone", if they cannot pick up the zone principles, it probably won't work.

Agreed. But what's interesting about next year's team is they look made for defense. Amile and Jones are two above average defenders. From everything I've read, Thornton looks to be menace on defense (he not only has the tools, but also the desire). Ingram may be the longest wing in Duke history (he's got a 7'3" wingspan!). And MP3 is a very competent defender. Grayson should only improve upon his D, and we know he's athletic enough to get it done. The jury is still out on Jeter, Obi, and Kennard, but the first 6 players mentioned is quite a strong man-on-man defensive unit. This could be the year when Duke's defense is much better than our offense.

[Kedsy]

Agreed. But what's interesting about next year's team is they look made for defense. Amile and Jones are two above average defenders. From everything I've read, Thornton looks to be menace on defense (he not only has the tools, but also the desire). Ingram may be the longest wing in Duke history (he's got a 7'3" wingspan!). And MP3 is a very competent defender. Grayson should only improve upon his D, and we know he's athletic enough to get it done. The jury is still out on Jeter, Obi, and Kennard, but the first 6 players mentioned is quite a strong man-on-man defensive unit. This could be the year when Duke's defense is much better than our offense.

I agree. Thornton is the key, but if he's anywhere close to as good as advertised, Duke's going to be very tough on defense this season. Probably top ten in the country. In my mind, that's a welcome change from the past few seasons.

If anything, I think you're selling Amile, Matt, Marshall, and Grayson short on D. I think Grayson will be at least above average (from my last season eye test, I believe he'll be even better that that), and Amile and Matt will be much stronger than "above average," they'll be very solid plus defenders. Marshall played really well on pick-and-roll defense last season, and the team played much stronger defense when he was in the game. While I realize it's kind of a questionable stat, he led Duke in DBPM (defensive box plus minus, which is a very different stat from the plus/minus stat we've talked about over the years). Also, since defensive rebounding counts as defense, Sean Obi could be a very important defensive weapon, to the extent that he plays. Duke's calling card in 2015-16 should be defense.

[COYS]

Duke's calling card in 2015-16 should be defense.

And I think that the same things that make Duke's roster look formidable in a zone also apply to K's traditional man-to-man scheme. If Derryck can be a ball hawk similar to Nolan or Duhon, then I think we're going to have tons of guys to jump the passing lanes. Grayson's got really good quickness. Amile is a mobile, lengthy defender. Matt is proven as a near lockdown wing defender. I don't know much about Brandon's defensive ability, but he's got some serious length. It's always possible we'll play some zone, but to me, next year's team looks better positioned to play man to man than most Duke teams of the past 3 or 4 years.

[gurufrisbee]

It's a good thought and makes sense. I think in ten years we'll all look back and realize we really needed the zone this last year to A) shake up the team, B) buy time for Cook and Tyus to become better perimeter man to man defenders, and C) help since we had a real lack of depth and it doesn't tend to wear you down as quickly.

Next season we'll have better depth (assuming we don't suffer injuries and suspensions and transfers by the boatload between now and then). It won't work to shake the team up as much because we did it so much this last season - but that also means that it's experienced and known by Grayson, Amile, MP3, Matt, etc. already.

I do think the biggest factor is Coach K prefers man to man. He'll stick with that first and foremost. But we'll see the zone some - if nothing else to make teams have to worry that he could break it out at any moment.

[sagegrouse]

It's a good thought and makes sense. I think in ten years we'll all look back and realize we really needed the zone this last year to A) shake up the team, B) buy time for Cook and Tyus to become better perimeter man to man defenders, and C) help since we had a real lack of depth and it doesn't tend to wear you down as quickly.

And D) needed to protect Okafor in the post 'cuz we needed his scoring and his presence on the court.

[BD80]

I agree. Thornton is the key, but if he's anywhere close to as good as advertised, Duke's going to be very tough on defense this season. Probably top ten in the country. In my mind, that's a welcome change from the past few seasons.

If anything, I think you're selling Amile, Matt, Marshall, and Grayson short on D. I think Grayson will be at least above average (from my last season eye test, I believe he'll be even better that that), and Amile and Matt will be much stronger than "above average," they'll be very solid plus defenders. Marshall played really well on pick-and-roll defense last season, and the team played much stronger defense when he was in the game. While I realize it's kind of a questionable stat, he led Duke in DBPM (defensive box plus minus, which is a very different stat from the plus/minus stat we've talked about over the years). Also, since defensive rebounding counts as defense, Sean Obi could be a very important defensive weapon, to the extent that he plays. Duke's calling card in 2015-16 should be defense.

I agree on Grayson. A big part of defense is "want-to," and I saw a bit of that attitude leaking out in the tourney. It is like the attitude Justise had in spurts when he just wanted to dominate the game.

We are very deep at the wing, and I submit that the coaching staff will suggest that defensive intensity is what will earn playing time. I think Grayson has had a taste of stardom, and will be willing to do what it takes to get onto the floor and be on the floor in crunch time.

[Indoor66]

I agree on Grayson. A big part of defense is "want-to," and I saw a bit of that attitude leaking out in the tourney. It is like the attitude Justise had in spurts when he just wanted to dominate the game.

We are very deep at the wing, and I submit that the coaching staff will suggest that defensive intensity is what will earn playing time. I think Grayson has had a taste of stardom, and will be willing to do what it takes to get onto the floor and be on the floor in crunch time.

IMO, Grayson has the opportunity to be the heart and soul of this team. It is up to him.

[Bob Green]

Duke's calling card in 2015-16 should be defense.

This possibility excites me. Two characteristics I really enjoy watching are a team that gets after it on defense and runs on offense. Using defensive intensity to fuel the offense makes for exciting basketball.

[gep]

IMO, Grayson has the opportunity to be the heart and soul of this team. It is up to him.

I don't think this will be a problem for Grayson to seize this opportunity. He essentially seized the moment in the 2015 NC game... just because the team needed it. Grayson is gold...

[OldPhiKap]

I don't think this will be a problem for Grayson to seize this opportunity. He essentially seized the moment in the 2015 NC game... just because the team needed it. Grayson is gold...

Grayson may hit the big shot, he may not. One thing for certain though -- Grayson wants to take it.

Love the kid. Go Duke!