NBA Playoffs 2015

[moonpie23]

i guess we're gonna find out who's the real MVP...

[Reilly]

The Warriors are favored by 6 points in game 1 ...

Golden State with a 82.3% chance of winning the series, if I'm reading sports-reference.com right: http://www.basketball-reference.com/

[JasonEvans]

It is real possibility that Klay Thomspon will be limited due to a concussion. That would have a major impact on GS's chances.

Also, what has happened to David Lee? Anyone remember when he was actually worth $15 mil a year? Ok, me neither but he was at least a pretty good stat stuffer for a while.

-Jason "Draymond Green made $900k this year and is a free agent (restricted)... I bet someone will offer him the max" Evans

[tbyers11]

It is real possibility that Klay Thomspon will be limited due to a concussion. That would have a major impact on GS's chances.

Also, what has happened to David Lee? Anyone remember when he was actually worth $15 mil a year? Ok, me neither but he was at least a pretty good stat stuffer for a while.

-Jason "Draymond Green made $900k this year and is a free agent (restricted)... I bet someone will offer him the max" Evans

You never know with concussions but since Game 1 of the Finals isn't until June 4th (a week from today), I'm betting that Thompson is OK for the finals.

[DevilWearsPrada]

I love to watch Stephen Curry play! We had a great game last night vs Houston! Enjoyed watching Steph since his playing days at Davidson! Very deserving on a MVP!
And Steph, has the Best Sports Baby, with his precious little daughter, Riley ! Riley And Daddy, Steph make a post game interview adorable and entertaining!

The best to Cleveland and Kyrie and LeBron !

[Des Esseintes]

You never know with concussions but since Game 1 of the Finals isn't until June 4th (a week from today), I'm betting that Thompson is OK for the finals.

From the concussion sustained in Game 6 of the WCF? Sure. From the concussion he sustains midway through the second quarter his first game against Cleveland when Matthew Dellavedova cyclone kicks him in the face? That one may linger through the Finals, especially considering the broken ulna he'll receive in Game 4 when Klay is a touch slow to tap out after Matthew Dellavedova puts him in an arm bar.

[duke09hms]

From the concussion sustained in Game 6 of the WCF? Sure. From the concussion he sustains midway through the second quarter his first game against Cleveland when Matthew Dellavedova cyclone kicks him in the face? That one may linger through the Finals, especially considering the broken ulna he'll receive in Game 4 when Klay is a touch slow to tap out after Matthew Dellavedova puts him in an arm bar.

Good take on Delly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8VoRTjVPMM

I think he's getting an unfair reputation. People just don't like getting shown up by guys like him.

[Des Esseintes]

Good take on Delly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8VoRTjVPMM

I think he's getting an unfair reputation. People just don't like getting shown up by guys like him.

Coach Nick says something revealing in that video. He says he plays that way himself. Which is absurd. Nobody in rec league plays like this. Sure, lots of rec leagues players are fishbelly white, like Dellavedova, and lots of them have jutting mouthpieces, like Dellavedova. I get why they self-identify with him. And I've no doubt dudes play hard in their pickup games. But come on. The kind of reckless, dangerous flinging of oneself about the court that Dellavedova is performing to earn his paycheck simply does not happen among weekend warriors. Dudes think they play this "hard," but they don't. They don't because 1) it's dangerous to others, 2) it's dangerous, 3) it's massively prickish, and 4) because it's massively prickish, you might get yourself beaten up for playing that way, so goto #2. This sort of play only exists in organized basketball, only where the stakes are high enough that the reward for behaving in a vicious manner on the court can outweigh any negatives. Dellavedova may become vilified across the nation, but he'll still draw an NBA paycheck, his team will have a better shot to advance deeper into the playoffs, and his hometown fans will defend him regardless of what he does. Lots and lots of teams are perfectly happy to have a guy who plays on the edge this way.

Let's not confuse "playing on the edge" with "playing hard." Pretty much everyone on that basketball court plays hard. The guys who don't get abused for failing to do so. Corey Brewer, for example, plays like a berserker on the court. Does he have a rep for trying to end careers? Nyet. Dellavedova is earning a rep for his conscious decisions, not for his effort level.

[duke09hms]

Coach Nick says something revealing in that video. He says he plays that way himself. Which is absurd. Nobody in rec league plays like this. Sure, lots of rec leagues players are fishbelly white, like Dellavedova, and lots of them have jutting mouthpieces, like Dellavedova. I get why they self-identify with him. And I've no doubt dudes play hard in their pickup games. But come on. The kind of reckless, dangerous flinging of oneself about the court that Dellavedova is performing to earn his paycheck simply does not happen among weekend warriors. Dudes think they play this "hard," but they don't. They don't because 1) it's dangerous to others, 2) it's dangerous, 3) it's massively prickish, and 4) because it's massively prickish, you might get yourself beaten up for playing that way, so goto #2. This sort of play only exists in organized basketball, only where the stakes are high enough that the reward for behaving in a vicious manner on the court can outweigh any negatives. Dellavedova may become vilified across the nation, but he'll still draw an NBA paycheck, his team will have a better shot to advance deeper into the playoffs, and his hometown fans will defend him regardless of what he does. Lots and lots of teams are perfectly happy to have a guy who plays on the edge this way.

Let's not confuse "playing on the edge" with "playing hard." Pretty much everyone on that basketball court plays hard. The guys who don't get abused for failing to do so. Corey Brewer, for example, plays like a berserker on the court. Does he have a rep for trying to end careers? Nyet. Dellavedova is earning a rep for his conscious decisions, not for his effort level.

Coach Nick is referring to his competitive playing days in HS or trying to walk-on at Wisconsin. (On a side note, the video where he's talking to the NBA chief ref about our championship game is HILARIOUS. Ronnie Nunn shoots down every imagined slight against Wisconsin, and Coach Nick gets salty struggling to remain neutral.)

I'd still say Delly is unfairly getting that reputation nor are they conscious decisions. When Taj Gibson kicked him, Delly was face-down, not even looking at him. And there's no argument with the Horford incident. Horford is clearly pulling Delly down by the arm in the direction of Horford's legs, similar to Olynk dislocating Love's shoulder. There's no way Delly is at fault for that, that's just ridiculous. Horford was rightly called for the flagrant and should have been called for several fouls before that as discussed in the video. The one borderline incident would be when he rolled up on Korver's ankle, where Delly is performing a normal basketball move diving for the loose ball and trying to get his body between the ball and opponent. Korver's ankle sprain is directly the result of Delly's actions, but to me it looks clearly unintentional. He's going for the ball first and foremost.

[Des Esseintes]

Coach Nick is referring to his competitive playing days in HS or trying to walk-on at Wisconsin. (On a side note, the video where he's talking to the NBA chief ref about our championship game is HILARIOUS. Ronnie Nunn shoots down every imagined slight against Wisconsin, and Coach Nick gets salty struggling to remain neutral.)

I'd still say Delly is unfairly getting that reputation nor are they conscious decisions. When Taj Gibson kicked him, Delly was face-down, not even looking at him. And there's no argument with the Horford incident. Horford is clearly pulling Delly down by the arm in the direction of Horford's legs, similar to Olynk dislocating Love's shoulder. There's no way Delly is at fault for that, that's just ridiculous. Horford was rightly called for the flagrant and should have been called for several fouls before that as discussed in the video. The one borderline incident would be when he rolled up on Korver's ankle, where Delly is performing a normal basketball move diving for the loose ball and trying to get his body between the ball and opponent. Korver's ankle sprain is directly the result of Delly's actions, but to me it looks clearly unintentional. He's going for the ball first and foremost.

Lemme ask you a question. Can you name some other famous controversies in which Al Horford involved himself? I'm not a close follower of the Hawks, but over a pretty significant career he's never to my knowledge conducted himself as anything other than a reasonable, standup dude.. He's as even-keeled as they come. If he responds with rage to a guy that has already been involved with multiple dangerous plays this playoffs, I know to whom I'm according benefit of the doubt. On that Horford play, Dellavedova clearly bunches his legs under him and pushes off. Into Horford's knees. On the Gibson play, you don't have to be facing a person to hook him with your leg, which is exactly what Dellavedova did. The Korver play could be a regular basketball play, but for chrissake. This is three incidents in a couple of weeks! Plenty of smoke here.

[duke09hms]

Lemme ask you a question. Can you name some other famous controversies in which Al Horford involved himself? I'm not a close follower of the Hawks, but over a pretty significant career he's never to my knowledge conducted himself as anything other than a reasonable, standup dude.. He's as even-keeled as they come. If he responds with rage to a guy that has already been involved with multiple dangerous plays this playoffs, I know to whom I'm according benefit of the doubt. On that Horford play, Dellavedova clearly bunches his legs under him and pushes off. Into Horford's knees. On the Gibson play, you don't have to be facing a person to hook him with your leg, which is exactly what Dellavedova did. The Korver play could be a regular basketball play, but for chrissake. This is three incidents in a couple of weeks! Plenty of smoke here.

I'll take the NBA's former Director of Officials and 19-yr veteran's take on the Horford play. Delly's getting pulled down by Horford in the exact same manner as Love's shoulder dislocation. Sure Horford has no history of this, but he's never really played in such a high stakes series before. Hawks are down, he just missed a shot, borderline offensive foul, and Cavs just come up with the rebound. He's clearly the instigator by clamping Delly's left arm and pulling him down into his legs. Again, I'll take a veteran ref over our POVs any day.

Korver's ankle sprain is the only one where Delly is directly responsible for the injury, but like you said, it comes about in a regular basketball play.

If you think Delly can put a leglock on Gibson while on his stomach and not looking at him, then wow, those are some crazy ninja skills. I really don't give him that much credit.

[CDu]

I'll take the NBA's former Director of Officials and 19-yr veteran's take on the Horford play. Delly's getting pulled down by Horford in the exact same manner as Love's shoulder dislocation. Sure Horford has no history of this, but he's never really played in such a high stakes series before. Hawks are down, he just missed a shot, borderline offensive foul, and Cavs just come up with the rebound. He's clearly the instigator by clamping Delly's left arm and pulling him down into his legs. Again, I'll take a veteran ref over our POVs any day.

Korver's ankle sprain is the only one where Delly is directly responsible for the injury, but like you said, it comes about in a regular basketball play.

If you think Delly can put a leglock on Gibson while on his stomach and not looking at him, then wow, those are some crazy ninja skills. I really don't give him that much credit.

That is some "Cavs-colored lenses" there. I mean, if you can watch the tape of the Gibson leglock and NOT come away convinced that it was intentional, I really can't help you. That was pretty blatantly intentional. He felt Gibson's leg with his leg, he then squeezed his legs together. It's pretty clear.

Also, the Horford pull down wasn't nearly as wreckless/dangerous as Olynyk's. Furthermore, he is pulling Dellavedova straight down as he is backing away. If it was a simple takedown, Dellavedova would fall more straight down. Instead, Dellavedova makes a lunge as he loses his balance and dives into Horford. Now, I don't think Dellavedova dived into Horford intending to injure. I think he dived into Horford intending to take Horford out of the play (not the game). I don't think he intentionally went at Horford's knee, just more into Horford's body. But that's the thing about him; he's a reckless player, and as such he does some things that (a) aren't appropriate and (b) aren't safe.

If you watch Dellavedova closely, you see a pattern of chippiness and wrecklessness and general disregard for safety. Most of it is just below the radar type stuff. But it adds up. And occasionally it spills over.

Examples in recent games:
1. A hard/moving screen on Jimmy Butler, in which he wraps up Butler by the arm as Butler is spinning away to get around the moving screen. Butler reacts to this hold with a hard shove on Dellavedova, which earns him a technical. That's a chippy/dirty play by Dellavedova, and was more similar to Olynyk's play than was Horford's play.
2. The leglock of Gibson's leg. After a hard-but-uncalled foul by Gibson, Dellavedova clearly locks up Gibson's leg. Only a Cavs fan or someone not paying attention could read it as anything other than that.
3. The reckless dive for the ball that injured Korver. This was a case where his recklessness fell on the side of okay in isolation. But again, we're talking about a trend, not an isolated incident.
4. The reckless, blind dive at Horford's body, hitting Horford in the knee.

Now, none of this is dirty on the scale of Chris Paul. But it is a combination of recklessness and chippiness that is way beyond what would be acceptable in normal basketball. It's only tolerated (and not really that well tolerated, as you can see) at the NBA level because these are well-compensated professionals.

[subzero02]

Dellavedova is the "cable guy"... Or vowelledova

[duke09hms]

That is some "Cavs-colored lenses" there. I mean, if you can watch the tape of the Gibson leglock and NOT come away convinced that it was intentional, I really can't help you. That was pretty blatantly intentional. He felt Gibson's leg with his leg, he then squeezed his legs together. It's pretty clear.

Also, the Horford pull down wasn't nearly as wreckless/dangerous as Olynyk's. Furthermore, he is pulling Dellavedova straight down as he is backing away. If it was a simple takedown, Dellavedova would fall more straight down. Instead, Dellavedova makes a lunge as he loses his balance and dives into Horford. Now, I don't think Dellavedova dived into Horford intending to injure. I think he dived into Horford intending to take Horford out of the play (not the game). I don't think he intentionally went at Horford's knee, just more into Horford's body. But that's the thing about him; he's a reckless player, and as such he does some things that (a) aren't appropriate and (b) aren't safe.

If you watch Dellavedova closely, you see a pattern of chippiness and wrecklessness and general disregard for safety. Most of it is just below the radar type stuff. But it adds up. And occasionally it spills over.

Examples in recent games:
1. A hard/moving screen on Jimmy Butler, in which he wraps up Butler by the arm as Butler is spinning away to get around the moving screen. Butler reacts to this hold with a hard shove on Dellavedova, which earns him a technical. That's a chippy/dirty play by Dellavedova, and was more similar to Olynyk's play than was Horford's play.
2. The leglock of Gibson's leg. After a hard-but-uncalled foul by Gibson, Dellavedova clearly locks up Gibson's leg. Only a Cavs fan or someone not paying attention could read it as anything other than that.
3. The reckless dive for the ball that injured Korver. This was a case where his recklessness fell on the side of okay in isolation. But again, we're talking about a trend, not an isolated incident.
4. The reckless, blind dive at Horford's body, hitting Horford in the knee.

Now, none of this is dirty on the scale of Chris Paul. But it is a combination of recklessness and chippiness that is way beyond what would be acceptable in normal basketball. It's only tolerated (and not really that well tolerated, as you can see) at the NBA level because these are well-compensated professionals.

True I am a casual Cavs fan rooting for James and Kyrie to win a title. You are a diehard Bulls fan, and we both bring our biases to the table.

I don't know which moving screen on Butler you're referring to, but you can find just about one moving screen on every trip down the floor, and the Bulls are no stranger to physical play.
We'll have to disagree on the Gibson "leglock" though I can see where you're coming from as a Bulls fan.
Unfortunate what happened to Korver, but clearly within the bounds of normal basketball play. Every kid growing up is taught to keep your body between the ball and the opponent.

I have to strongly disagree with the Horford play. That was caused entirely by Horford pulling Delly down into his own legs. Delly loses his balance and continues falling down in the same direction and trajectory Horford is pulling his arm in. There's no blind reckless dive by Delly into Horford's knee. That is plain as day, and the former NBA Director of Officials concurs.

In recent memory, Tyler Thornton was a similar irritant to opponents, and Justise had several similar incidents - locking up an opponents leg to keep him from a fast break, kicking the UNC player. Why did Horford react that way? Heat of the moment, Hawks down in big game, being boxed out by Delly after missing a shot, "talentless" undrafted Delly hitting big shots all series, and the media narrative of Delly being dirty probably induced Horford to take a swing at him.

[tbyers11]

My take on the big three plays

- The leg lock on Gibson was totally intentional. It was meant to provoke Gibson as they had already had altercations. It was a punk move, a move to try to get another player to take a cheap shot at you. But I don't see it as a dirty play as there was no intent to injure. The leg lock wasn't going to hurt Gibson.
- I don't think the dive for the loose ball that injured Korver's ankle was dirty. Delly turns his back while diving on the ball to protect it from the opposing player. Korver was wrong place, wrong time.
- Horford incident: Horford had a hold of his arm and was pulling him down. It was nowhere as blatant/dangerous as Olynyk on Love, but it was a foul. As Horford is pulling Delly down, Delly has to sidestep a Hawks players (Carroll, I think) who was already on the ground and falls toward Horford. If a player (illegally) pulls you down by the arm, I don't have a problem with you falling towards his body (assuming you aren't deliberately falling at knee/ankle which I don't think Delly was doing here) to take him out of the play as well. In my opinion, Horford is at as much fault as Delly on this play.

I don't think Dellevadova is a dirty player. To me, the only play that is really even reckless is the Gibson one. Because the second two happened shortly after the first one, I think Dellevadova is getting an unfair rap.

[Des Esseintes]

In recent memory, Tyler Thornton was a similar irritant to opponents, and Justise had several similar incidents - locking up an opponents leg to keep him from a fast break, kicking the UNC player.

Yeah, and it wasn't cool when either of those guys played that way. Justise's sometimes spiteful play and Tyler's envelope-pushing play were subjects of discussion on even this board. Tyler in particular did a couple of things I found deeply alarming in his time at Duke. He was a valuable asset to our team, and I suspect he will be a great coach. I wish, though, that he had avoided the more extreme demonstrations of his gamesmanship. It is possible to fulfill one's role as an irritant and all-around burr in the opponent's flank without increasing everyone's injury risk.

[superdave]

Sounds like Thibs will get looks from New Orleans and Orlando.

Who will the Bulls pursue? I dont know that they can upgrade, really. They could have brought in an assistant to upgrade the offense maybe. They just need better luck.

[CDu]

True I am a casual Cavs fan rooting for James and Kyrie to win a title. You are a diehard Bulls fan, and we both bring our biases to the table.

I don't know which moving screen on Butler you're referring to, but you can find just about one moving screen on every trip down the floor, and the Bulls are no stranger to physical play.

It wasn't the moving part that was the issue. It was the grabbing and pulling of the arm while setting the moving screen that was the issue. Moving screens happen all the time. Hooking a player and yanking on his arm as he's trying to get around you doesn't.

We'll have to disagree on the Gibson "leglock" though I can see where you're coming from as a Bulls fan.

This has nothing to do with being a Bulls fan. I encourage you to ask 10 fans of other teams (not Cavs, not Bulls) to watch that play and tell you if they think it was intentional. If you don't get a 10 for 10 response of "intentional", you should probably check on those folks that said it was accidental.

I have to strongly disagree with the Horford play. That was caused entirely by Horford pulling Delly down into his own legs. Delly loses his balance and continues falling down in the same direction and trajectory Horford is pulling his arm in. There's no blind reckless dive by Delly into Horford's knee. That is plain as day, and the former NBA Director of Officials concurs.

Yeah, we're going to have to disagree on this one..

In recent memory, Tyler Thornton was a similar irritant to opponents, and Justise had several similar incidents - locking up an opponents leg to keep him from a fast break, kicking the UNC player.

And Winslow's leglock and kick were equally inappropriate actions. Just because inappropriate unsportsmanlike acts have happened elsewhere doesn't excuse these actions.

Why did Horford react that way? Heat of the moment, Hawks down in big game, being boxed out by Delly after missing a shot, "talentless" undrafted Delly hitting big shots all series, and the media narrative of Delly being dirty probably induced Horford to take a swing at him.

First of all, the Hawks weren't down when Horford was tossed. In fact, they were ahead 48-47. So no, I don't think being down in a big game had anything to do with it. And do you honestly think Horford thought Dellavedova went undrafted as part of the reason for his action? I doubt Horford has any idea if Dellavedova was drafted. And he certain wasn't thinking about that as Dellavedova hit him in the knee. He took his shot at Dellavedova because he felt Dellavedova was going at his knees, plain and simple.

Also, Horford didn't take a swing at Dellavedova. He just dropped his body onto Dellavedova demonstratively, and his upper aarm caught Dellavedova on the shoulder/neck. Kind of like a wrestling elbow drop, only he didn't connect with the elbow and he didn't connect hard. Honestly, I don't even think it warranted a flagrant 2 compared to some of the stuff that has gone as flagrant 1 in this league. But it certainly wasn't a swing. And I absolutely

[CDu]

Sounds like Thibs will get looks from New Orleans and Orlando.

Who will the Bulls pursue? I dont know that they can upgrade, really. They could have brought in an assistant to upgrade the offense maybe. They just need better luck.

Yeah, this was the least well-kept secret of the last few months. He was going to get canned. The only question was whether the Bulls could convince a team to make a trade for him (getting a draft pick and more salary relief) rather than just outright firing him.

Everyone close to the situation expects Fred Hoiberg to be the next Bulls coach.

[flyingdutchdevil]

My take on the big three plays

- The leg lock on Gibson was totally intentional. It was meant to provoke Gibson as they had already had altercations. It was a punk move, a move to try to get another player to take a cheap shot at you. But I don't see it as a dirty play as there was no intent to injure. The leg lock wasn't going to hurt Gibson.
- I don't think the dive for the loose ball that injured Korver's ankle was dirty. Delly turns his back while diving on the ball to protect it from the opposing player. Korver was wrong place, wrong time.
- Horford incident: Horford had a hold of his arm and was pulling him down. It was nowhere as blatant/dangerous as Olynyk on Love, but it was a foul. As Horford is pulling Delly down, Delly has to sidestep a Hawks players (Carroll, I think) who was already on the ground and falls toward Horford. If a player (illegally) pulls you down by the arm, I don't have a problem with you falling towards his body (assuming you aren't deliberately falling at knee/ankle which I don't think Delly was doing here) to take him out of the play as well. In my opinion, Horford is at as much fault as Delly on this play.

I don't think Dellevadova is a dirty player. To me, the only play that is really even reckless is the Gibson one. Because the second two happened shortly after the first one, I think Dellevadova is getting an unfair rap.

I agree with everything here. Delly isn't a dirty player; he's just very reckless. And he isn't making any friends outside of this teammates and the city of Cleveland. He better hope that Cleveland resigns him.

The Horford play really upset me, because everyone talked about Delly afterwards rather than the People's Elbow. How Horford didn't get suspended for that is beyond me. It was an extremely dirty play that absolutely warranted an ejection at the minimum.