Welcome to Duke, Antonio Vrankovic!!!

[dukelifer]

I watched his mixtape. He has a ways to go, but clearly has potential-he's a traditional close-in player, seems to be able to catch the ball and makes some nice decisions on the fly and has some quickness to his rebounding. In a more typical year he wouldn't sniff Duke, and I hope that works out for him. If he accepts being a project he could learn a lot, and as an upperclassman get some national exposure which could help him get work outs or a place back in Europe. And of course, he will have access to a lot of the non-basketball things that Duke has to offer. Overall, if you have more ambition than that, Duke is not a good place for the "developing" player, because Coach K and staff will not be able/willing to let you learn in the best situation to learn--on the court. Guys not happy with this such as Czyz or Boateng end up transferring.

Not quite sure I agree with this. Perhaps players developed just fine in practice and through the interaction with the program, coaching staff and quality players- but then decided to move on where they can play more. In the end the player may have gained more than the program.

[kAzE]

I like picking this guy up now, especially if we can get him a redshirt year. He's obviously not yet strong enough in his lower body to move gracefully out on a basketball court, so strength and conditioning will be a big part of his development.

Here is Z's HS highlight video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-AeSs7iRRM

The slo-mo parts of this video pretty much made my day.

Thanks for linking that video for Zoubek. One thing I do notice is that the differences in athleticism between Vrankovic and Zoubek appear minimal. For all the talk about "below the rim", that's pretty much what Zoubek was, and I'm pretty sure that's what most guys are when they are 6'10"+ as a teenager. It's really rare for a guy that tall to also be really athletic.

We get spoiled by guys like Okafor, Laettner, the Plumlees and other crazy examples, but most guys that size just aren't strong enough to look explosive. And given they have such a height advantage, it is often easier to just put up a shot quickly (using that height advantage) than to gather yourself and go up strong for a dunk (and risk allowing more athletic guys challenging the shot).

I could certainly see a progression like Zoubek's, where he doesn't play much his first two years but gets stronger and becomes a contributor as a junior and senior. Hopefully he won't have the injury problems that Zoubek had, which slowed his progression by a year or so. But like Zoubek, I'd imagine he'd have trouble with the speed and strength of the game as a frosh and soph (and thus commit a lot of fouls and turnovers).

Zoubek was certainly more accomplished coming out of high school, whereas Vrankovic looks a bit like a late-bloomer. So development will be key to whether or not he can ever be more than a big guy who commits a lot of fouls and turnovers.

I agree with most of this, although not entirely with that 2nd paragraph. Most 6'10" guys recruited by Duke are explosive enough to at least be able to dunk with relative ease. I think Zoubek and Vrankovic are clearly more of an exception when it comes to Duke bigs. I don't think anyone considered Marshall Plumlee a 5 star recruit, but he murders the rim at least twice a game when he gets enough minutes. It's just a matter of athleticism.

Chase Jeter, Harry Giles, Udoka Azubuike, and Thon Maker are other guys we are recruiting (with Jeter already on the way) who are 6'10" or taller and are pretty friendly with the rim. OBVIOUSLY, compared to normal human beings who are 6'10" (as normal as any giant human being can be), these guys are freaks, but just in terms of guys getting letters from Coach K, I'd say these below the rim type of guys are more of a rarity. Zoubek was a special case because 7'1" 300 pounders don't come along that often.

This guy will be a project. Marshall was a project, and now he's pretty damn good. Give Vrank the Tank 3-4 years to mature. I think he'll be at the very least a good rebounder and finisher in the paint. Defnsively, I don't ever see him becoming mobile enough to become a force down low in terms of protecting the rim, but he's so big that as long as he's in position to challenge a shot, we should be okay. I see him as a career back up big who could provide some valuable minutes when called upon. I think I still like MP3's upside more, but Vrank might have enough offensive skill to make up for the significant gap in athleticism and mobility that MP3 has over him. We'll see.

[gam7]

This is true. Zoubek started out very promising and then lost some confidence and mobility. He played well at the right time and was a major contributor to the National Championship.

This arguably understates Zoubek's importance to that national championship. A strong case can be made that his improvement was the single biggest reason we won it that year. I'm in that camp.

As for Vrankovic, at this point we need bodies - probably for games, but at the very least for practice. It would be nice if we can get at least 10 practice-quality guys. Vrankovic primarily serves this purpose for the next two years. Anything he contributes in games beyond that will be a nice bonus.

[Saratoga2]

This arguably understates Zoubek's importance to that national championship. A strong case can be made that his improvement was the single biggest reason we won it that year. I'm in that camp.

As for Vrankovic, at this point we need bodies - probably for games, but at the very least for practice. It would be nice if we can get at least 10 practice-quality guys. Vrankovic primarily serves this purpose for the next two years. Anything he contributes in games beyond that will be a nice bonus.

I prefer to wait and see what he can do. His competition at C are MP3 (Excellent athletically but has basketball limitations) and Sean (unknown at this time and with little being said about his practice year). Maybe coach K will use Chase or Amile at C, but neither is really cut out for that position. Maybe Antonio will be competitive for a spot with Marshall and Sean.

[jimsumner]

I prefer to wait and see what he can do. His competition at C are MP3 (Excellent athletically but has basketball limitations) and Sean (unknown at this time and with little being said about his practice year). Maybe coach K will use Chase or Amile at C, but neither is really cut out for that position. Maybe Antonio will be competitive for a spot with Marshall and Sean.

Very much agree that it's premature to ban him to the bench for four seasons.

Jeter is a real wild card here. When Duke started recruiting him he was a skinny power forward. But he's bulked up considerably. I had heard 225 or so but he was listed as 239 at the Nike Hoops Summit. He's more athletic than Obi or Vrankovic, more skilled than Plumlee. And he's a consensus top-15 recruit and he's not likely to start at the 4 ahead of Jefferson.

So, practices figure to be pretty competitive. To Duke's benefit, hopefully.

[lotusland]

I prefer to wait and see what he can do. His competition at C are MP3 (Excellent athletically but has basketball limitations) and Sean (unknown at this time and with little being said about his practice year). Maybe coach K will use Chase or Amile at C, but neither is really cut out for that position. Maybe Antonio will be competitive for a spot with Marshall and Sean.

I think we know as much about Obi as we do about Vrankovic and it is safe to say Obi is also a below the rim player. In his YouTube highlights Obi shows very little lift but he uses his size and strength to be effective rebounding and scoring around the rim.

[Elev8ion]

I think we know as much about Obi as we do about Vrankovic and it is safe to say Obi is also a below the rim player. In his YouTube highlights Obi shows very little lift but he uses his size and strength to be effective rebounding and scoring around the rim.

Obi reminds me of a poor man's Charles Barkley. Vrank needs to work on his footwork, from his "highlight" reels he has seen the world over a couple of times.

[CDu]

I think we know as much about Obi as we do about Vrankovic and it is safe to say Obi is also a below the rim player. In his YouTube highlights Obi shows very little lift but he uses his size and strength to be effective rebounding and scoring around the rim.

I would say we know quite a bit more about Obi than Vrankovic, simply by virtue of the fact that he has averaged almost a double-double at the D-1 college level. And he did so at an upper-mid-major level. We have no idea whether or not Vrankovic can play at the major college level, whereas Obi should at least be able to contribute solid rebounding numbers and a little bit of scoring (he averaged 9 points and 10.5 rebounds in 23.5 minutes per game in his two games against "BCS" schools as a frosh).

[lotusland]

Obi reminds me of a poor man's Charles Barkley. Vrank needs to work on his footwork, from his "highlight" reels he has seen the world over a couple of times.

Barkely was a 6'5ish guy with amazing agility and lift for his size. Obi is a 6'9 tank with very limited lift and agility. I Just don't see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q-J-rqy5eE

I guess the "poor man's..." qualifier gives you some room but I think he's as much a poor man's David Robinson as Charles Barkely which is to say, not so much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8FOe9GSwFY

Obi will likely be a an effective rebounder, defender and post scorer but I don't expect him to go coast to coast very much. I like having a guy like Obi around for 3 more years but I would actually be surprised is he is as productive as Roshon, Dante and Seth. Then again I usually underestimate players coming in. I think the current landscape of OADs and prevalence of transfers have changed recruiting for everyone but espectially the blue bloods. It's a narrow line to walk trying to bring in glue guys who can contribute right away yet don't have NBA skills to leave early like Quinn, Tyler, Amile, M. Jones and probably Obi or to add some "project guys" with future potential who will be willing to sit for a couple of years without transferring before they get much PT. Category #1 are typically tweeners or guys who just don't have NBA size and/or speed for their position. Category 2 is trickier to identify. MP3, Like Zoubek, was probably expected to contribute more in his first couple of years but he wasn't likely to transfer. Same for Justin Robinson as a walk-on and hopefully Vrankovic as well. Semi, Alex and, in some respects, Sheed did not fit in either category.

[lotusland]

I would say we know quite a bit more about Obi than Vrankovic, simply by virtue of the fact that he has averaged almost a double-double at the D-1 college level. And he did so at an upper-mid-major level. We have no idea whether or not Vrankovic can play at the major college level, whereas Obi should at least be able to contribute solid rebounding numbers and a little bit of scoring (he averaged 9 points and 10.5 rebounds in 23.5 minutes per game in his two games against "BCS" schools as a frosh).

I agree we can probably assume more about Obi's productivity and I definitley expect him to contribute more than Vrankovic next year. Still I'm not sure how well points and rebounds at Rice translates to points and rebounds at Duke. I think Fresman MP3 puts up comparable numbers to Obi if he had played at Rice instead of Duke. But I was speaking more about their the type of player both are more than expected production next year. Both are "below the rim" guys for the most part while Vrank is taller and Obi is bulkier. I'd guess Obi is a little better rebounder and Vrank is a better shooter. I don't think either will do well guarding guys like Kaminsky on the perimeter.

[CDu]

I agree we can probably assume more about Obi's productivity and I definitley expect him to contribute more than Vrankovic next year. Still I'm not sure how well points and rebounds at Rice translates to points and rebounds at Duke. I think Fresman MP3 puts up comparable numbers to Obi if he had played at Rice instead of Duke. But I was speaking more about their the type of player both are more than expected production next year. Both are "below the rim" guys for the most part while Vrank is taller and Obi is bulkier. I'd guess Obi is a little better rebounder and Vrank is a better shooter. I don't think either will do well guarding guys like Kaminsky on the perimeter.

I think you are either underselling Obi or overestimating Plumlee here, especially when it comes to rebounds. Rebounding skill is one of the most translatable traits a player can have. And Obi rebounded quite well in games against Texas and Texas A&M (9 and 12 rebounds in those games). I'm quite sure freshman-year Marshall Plumlee would not have matched Obi's production had he been at Rice as a freshman. More relevantly, I'm not sure Plumlee would have matched those numbers this past year if he'd been at Rice. I'm quite confident he wouldn't have averaged 9 rpg, and pretty sure he wouldn't have gotten to the 11 ppg.

I'm not saying I'd expect Obi to come in and average 11 and 9 next year for Duke. But I'd be comfortably willing to say 8 and 6 (given the 25 mpg), given that he will be two years older and has had a year of practicing against Okafor, Plumlee, and Jefferson. In the same amount of PT, I'd see more along the lines of 5 and 5 from Plumlee.

But yes, both appear to be "below-the-rim" type players, and neither would do well on Kaminsky. Thankfully, there aren't too many guys like Kaminsky (or anywhere remotely close to as good as him) in the college game.

[DukieinSoCal]

Barkely was a 6'5ish guy with amazing agility and lift for his size. Obi is a 6'9 tank with very limited lift and agility. I Just don't see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q-J-rqy5eE

I guess the "poor man's..." qualifier gives you some room but I think he's as much a poor man's David Robinson as Charles Barkely which is to say, not so much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8FOe9GSwFY

Obi will likely be a an effective rebounder, defender and post scorer but I don't expect him to go coast to coast very much. I like having a guy like Obi around for 3 more years but I would actually be surprised is he is as productive as Roshon, Dante and Seth. Then again I usually underestimate players coming in. I think the current landscape of OADs and prevalence of transfers have changed recruiting for everyone but espectially the blue bloods. It's a narrow line to walk trying to bring in glue guys who can contribute right away yet don't have NBA skills to leave early like Quinn, Tyler, Amile, M. Jones and probably Obi or to add some "project guys" with future potential who will be willing to sit for a couple of years without transferring before they get much PT. Category #1 are typically tweeners or guys who just don't have NBA size and/or speed for their position. Category 2 is trickier to identify. MP3, Like Zoubek, was probably expected to contribute more in his first couple of years but he wasn't likely to transfer. Same for Justin Robinson as a walk-on and hopefully Vrankovic as well. Semi, Alex and, in some respects, Sheed did not fit in either category.

He actually strikes me more as a thicker version of Amile. He seems to have soft hands, nice touch around the basket, and is pretty crafty using both hands and the rim to protect against blocks. There was also a clip of him shooting and making an elbow jumper. I think this is really key for both Obi and Amile. They have to at least be a threat to shoot the mid-range jumper in order to keep defenses honest. Our offense will flow so much better if we're not playing 4 on 5. I hated watching teams completely sag off of Amile whenever he would receive the ball near the free throw line last year. I'm sure he'll be working hard on that part of his game in the off-season and will come back ready to play.

[CDu]

He actually strikes me more as a thicker version of Amile. He seems to have soft hands, nice touch around the basket, and is pretty crafty using both hands and the rim to protect against blocks. There was also a clip of him shooting and making an elbow jumper. I think this is really key for both Obi and Amile. They have to at least be a threat to shoot the mid-range jumper in order to keep defenses honest. Our offense will flow so much better if we're not playing 4 on 5. I hated watching teams completely sag off of Amile whenever he would receive the ball near the free throw line last year. I'm sure he'll be working hard on that part of his game in the off-season and will come back ready to play.

This is a really interesting and different comp. A much thicker and probably much less quick version of Jefferson sound reasonable, especially given the FG% and FT% of both players and the relative lack of scoring despite strong rebounding numbers. For Obi, given his size and strength, he may be able to get away with a lack of mid-range game a little more than Jefferson, in that he can perhaps use his size/strength to muscle his way around in the paint, whereas Jefferson has to be more slinky in there. But yes, a mid-range game would be huge for both guys.

[sagegrouse]

Do we get to call this guy "Tony," or is it gonna be "Antonio?"

[Elev8ion]

Barkely was a 6'5ish guy with amazing agility and lift for his size. Obi is a 6'9 tank with very limited lift and agility. I Just don't see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q-J-rqy5eE

I guess the "poor man's..." qualifier gives you some room but I think he's as much a poor man's David Robinson as Charles Barkely which is to say, not so much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8FOe9GSwFY

Obi will likely be a an effective rebounder, defender and post scorer but I don't expect him to go coast to coast very much. I like having a guy like Obi around for 3 more years but I would actually be surprised is he is as productive as Roshon, Dante and Seth. Then again I usually underestimate players coming in. I think the current landscape of OADs and prevalence of transfers have changed recruiting for everyone but espectially the blue bloods. It's a narrow line to walk trying to bring in glue guys who can contribute right away yet don't have NBA skills to leave early like Quinn, Tyler, Amile, M. Jones and probably Obi or to add some "project guys" with future potential who will be willing to sit for a couple of years without transferring before they get much PT. Category #1 are typically tweeners or guys who just don't have NBA size and/or speed for their position. Category 2 is trickier to identify. MP3, Like Zoubek, was probably expected to contribute more in his first couple of years but he wasn't likely to transfer. Same for Justin Robinson as a walk-on and hopefully Vrankovic as well. Semi, Alex and, in some respects, Sheed did not fit in either category.

I suppose I was referring to his frame more than his height and agility.

I still think Vrank travels a lot!

[mr. synellinden]

Do we get to call this guy "Tony," or is it gonna be "Antonio?"

It worked for Antonio Lang, so why not?

[lotusland]

I think you are either underselling Obi or overestimating Plumlee here, especially when it comes to rebounds. Rebounding skill is one of the most translatable traits a player can have. And Obi rebounded quite well in games against Texas and Texas A&M (9 and 12 rebounds in those games). I'm quite sure freshman-year Marshall Plumlee would not have matched Obi's production had he been at Rice as a freshman. More relevantly, I'm not sure Plumlee would have matched those numbers this past year if he'd been at Rice. I'm quite confident he wouldn't have averaged 9 rpg, and pretty sure he wouldn't have gotten to the 11 ppg.

I'm not saying I'd expect Obi to come in and average 11 and 9 next year for Duke. But I'd be comfortably willing to say 8 and 6 (given the 25 mpg), given that he will be two years older and has had a year of practicing against Okafor, Plumlee, and Jefferson. In the same amount of PT, I'd see more along the lines of 5 and 5 from Plumlee.

But yes, both appear to be "below-the-rim" type players, and neither would do well on Kaminsky. Thankfully, there aren't too many guys like Kaminsky (or anywhere remotely close to as good as him) in the college game.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Like MP3 I don't think Obi would have gotten much PT for Duke either Plumlee's red shirt year with Singler MP1, MP2 and Kelly or his red-shirt Freshman year with MP2, Ryan and Amile. Hard to put up 9 and 11 from the bench. Plumlee is a 7-ft jumpig Jack with a good motor who stays down low so I feel confident his numbers would be at least comparable to Obi's at Rice. I'd imagine lots of bad D1 teams have guys putting up similar numbers who couldn't get off the bench at Duke. One advantage Obi may have is an ability to stay in the game and be agressive without fouling out which definitley helps production.

[CDu]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Like MP3 I don't think Obi would have gotten much PT for Duke either Plumlee's red shirt year with Singler MP1, MP2 and Kelly or his red-shirt Freshman year with MP2, Ryan and Amile. Hard to put up 9 and 11 from the bench. Plumlee is a 7-ft jumpig Jack with a good motor who stays down low so I feel confident his numbers would be at least comparable to Obi's at Rice. I'd imagine lots of bad D1 teams have guys putting up similar numbers who couldn't get off the bench at Duke. One advantage Obi may have is an ability to stay in the game and be agressive without fouling out which definitley helps production.

First, Rice is not a "bad D1" team. They are in Conference USA, which is a high-mid-major. Secondly, Obi ranked 31st in the nation in rebounds per game and was 10th in rebounds per 40 minutes. On that list, only a handful of guys played in a conference at the same level as Rice. So, I really don't think there were lots of guys putting up similar numbers, regardless of the level of competition. And he showed in his games against major conference teams that he could still get those rebounds (averaging 10.5 rpg against BCS schools).

It is true that Plumlee wasn't going to get minutes as a true freshman due to the veterans in place, and it is also true that Obi wouldn't have played that year either. That doesn't make them similar in ability - it just means we had a wealth of talented and experienced big guys that year. Since then, Plumlee has continued to not get major minutes - even on a 2014 team that needed size and interior defense in the worst way in 2014. That doesn't suggest to me that he'd be an 11 and 9 guy if he played at Rice. In fact, nothing about his rebound percentages suggest he'd be anywhere near a 9rpg guy even now. Based on his current stats, he'd need to play 38mpg to match the per-game rebounding numbers Obi got as a freshman.

This isn't meant to disparage Plumlee. He seems like a great kid and a hard worker. But I think you're underestimating how hard it is to average 9.3 rpg (and 14.1 rebounds per 40 minutes). I'd be surprised if Obi plays less than Plumlee next year, and I'd be more suprised if Plumlee puts up better numbers per minute than Obi next year.

[BD80]

... This isn't meant to disparage Plumlee. He seems like a great kid and a hard worker. But I think you're underestimating how hard it is to average 9.3 rpg (and 14.1 rebounds per 40 minutes). I'd be surprised if Obi plays less than Plumlee next year, and I'd be more suprised if Plumlee puts up better numbers per minute than Obi next year.

So you're telling me that there may be some "spirited" competition between the two in practice to earn playing time?

OK

[Kedsy]

But I think you're underestimating how hard it is to average 9.3 rpg (and 14.1 rebounds per 40 minutes).

Just to amplify CDu's point, Sean Obi was 3rd in the nation in defensive rebounding percentage his freshman year. So the idea that "lots of guys" on any D1 teams were putting up similar numbers is just wrong. Sean's 30.23% defensive rebounding pct. at Rice was almost twice as good as Marshall's career best (15.6%).

That said, it appears Marshall is a better offensive rebounder than Sean is. But Sean is so much better at defensive rebounding that the two players' overall rebounding prowess can't really be considered close, even taking the difference in competition levels into account.