MBB: Coaching Carousel - 2015

[devildeac]

Breaking news: Herb Sendek fired at Arizona State

Now, the big question -- will the media crucify ASU the way they went after NC State in 2006 for doing the same thing.

Duke (football) curse. Beat us in a bowl game and your MBB coach "sleeps with the fish(es)".

[Olympic Fan]

Why is that a "big question"? Sendek has been nine seasons at ASU, has made the tournament all of twice, has only posted a winning conference record three times. No one will criticize the decision to move on from that performance. On the other hand, he took N.C. State to the tournament his final five seasons in a row. The media absolutely should have gone after some-people-are-old-enough-to-remember-when-they-were-still-a-power State. Sendek did a fine job in Raleigh; he did an unacceptable job in Tucson. I expect the media will respond accordingly.

In the history of the ACC, just two coaches have lasted at least eight years at a school and accomplished less than Herb Sendek -- Bill Gibson of Virginia and Bobby Roberts at Clemson.

Herb gave NC State five NCAA Tournament wins in 10 seasons at NC State. He never won an ACC regular season title. He never won a tournament title. He never got past the Sweet 16 -- indeed, he only got to the Sweet 16 once in 10 years. He was under .500 in the ACC for his 10 year run -- in NC State history (since WWII), only Sidney Lowe and Les Robinson (who had to operate under severe self-omposed academy restrictions ... restrictions that were lifted when Herb got the job) had worse records. Every other Wolfpack coach from Ev Case to Press Maravich to Norm Sloan to Jim Valvano to now Mark Gottfried won at a better rate -- and accomplished more in postseason.

The fact that even now, somebody can look at the record of Herb's mediocrity and suggest he "did a fine job" carries an air of Duke condescension. Would we have put up with 10 years of Herb's mediocrity?

Herb did a poor job at Arizona State, just as he did a poor job at NC State.

And one more difference -- he was fired by Arizona State ... he left NC State on his own (although, I concede that most of the Pack nation was happy to see him go).

[Des Esseintes]

As much as I dislike the "First Four" nonsense, a victory over an 11-ish seed probably is a more significant achievement than a win over, say, a 16-seed.

I suppose. But there's only one way to *beat* a sixteen-seed, and that's to be a one-seed. The coaching job that produces a one-seed is superior to the coaching job that produces the victor of a First Four game.

[Des Esseintes]

In the history of the ACC, just two coaches have lasted at least eight years at a school and accomplished less than Herb Sendek -- Bill Gibson of Virginia and Bobby Roberts at Clemson.

Herb gave NC State five NCAA Tournament wins in 10 seasons at NC State. He never won an ACC regular season title. He never won a tournament title. He never got past the Sweet 16 -- indeed, he only got to the Sweet 16 once in 10 years. He was under .500 in the ACC for his 10 year run -- in NC State history (since WWII), only Sidney Lowe and Les Robinson (who had to operate under severe self-omposed academy restrictions ... restrictions that were lifted when Herb got the job) had worse records. Every other Wolfpack coach from Ev Case to Press Maravich to Norm Sloan to Jim Valvano to now Mark Gottfried won at a better rate -- and accomplished more in postseason.

The fact that even now, somebody can look at the record of Herb's mediocrity and suggest he "did a fine job" carries an air of Duke condescension. Would we have put up with 10 years of Herb's mediocrity?

Herb did a poor job at Arizona State, just as he did a poor job at NC State.

And one more difference -- he was fired by Arizona State ... he left NC State on his own (although, I concede that most of the Pack nation was happy to see him go).

N.C. State is not the program it was, and hasn't been since Human League was charting. They've had four coaches since Valvano left. Sendek is responsible HALF of their entire tournament appearances in that time. NO ONE at State has won an ACC tourney title in 28 years. NO ONE at State has gone deeper than the Sweet Sixteen in 25 years. It's hilarious to say that "only Sidney Lowe and Les Robinson...had worse [ACC] records" than Sendek without mentioning that, you know, one was the coach who preceded Sendek and the other was the coach who followed Sendek. While Sendek never won an ACC regular season, he finished 2nd, 3rd, and twice alone in 4th. Gottfried--a coach you and I rightly believe is a good fit for their program--has managed so far only to finish in a tie for fourth. Only Les Robinson's first season, a tie for third, matches any of Sendek's best seasons.

Would Duke have put up with a decade of Sendek's high mediocrity? Of course not. But Duke is a premiere program representing perhaps the best college basketball job in existence, while N.C. State is St. John's in a slightly different shade of red.

[SCMatt33]

N.C. State is not the program it was, and hasn't been since Human League was charting. They've had four coaches since Valvano left. Sendek is responsible HALF of their entire tournament appearances in that time. NO ONE at State has won an ACC tourney title in 28 years. NO ONE at State has gone deeper than the Sweet Sixteen in 25 years. It's hilarious to say that "only Sidney Lowe and Les Robinson...had worse [ACC] records" than Sendek without mentioning that, you know, one was the coach who preceded Sendek and the other was the coach who followed Sendek. While Sendek never won an ACC regular season, he finished 2nd, 3rd, and twice alone in 4th. Gottfried--a coach you and I rightly believe is a good fit for their program--has managed so far only to finish in a tie for fourth. Only Les Robinson's first season, a tie for third, matches any of Sendek's best seasons.

Would Duke have put up with a decade of Sendek's high mediocrity? Of course not. But Duke is a premiere program representing perhaps the best college basketball job in existence, while N.C. State is St. John's in a slightly different shade of red.

Why should NC State have to accept permanent mediocrity because the last 25 years haven't gone well? This is a program with rich tradition from Everett Case to Norm Sloan to Jimmy V. There's no reason to criticize them for thinking that one Sweet 16 and 0 ACC titles (regular season or tournament) over the coarse of a decade isn't good enough. There was also very little reason under Sendek to think that those things were coming anytime soon. That being said, a guy like Mark Gottfried shouldn't be held to the standard of "ACC title or Final Four within the next 5 years or bust," but there's no indication that they are doing that. Gottfried has yet to miss the tourney, has already made the second weekend twice (and they aren't yet done this year), and is bringing in better players than most of Sendek's on a pretty consistent basis. There's a different between NC State fans thinking that what Sendek did wasn't enough and a program like BC thinking that 7 tourney's in 10 years from Al Skinner wasn't enough when they had only been to the tourney 11 times in their history before he got there. When you have a history like NC State and are in close proximity to Duke and UNC, it's understandable to throw away "good" and take a chance at "great," even if "bad" is a possible, if not probable outcome of that move.

[freshmanjs]

N.C. State is not the program it was, and hasn't been since Human League was charting. They've had four coaches since Valvano left. Sendek is responsible HALF of their entire tournament appearances in that time. NO ONE at State has won an ACC tourney title in 28 years. NO ONE at State has gone deeper than the Sweet Sixteen in 25 years. It's hilarious to say that "only Sidney Lowe and Les Robinson...had worse [ACC] records" than Sendek without mentioning that, you know, one was the coach who preceded Sendek and the other was the coach who followed Sendek. While Sendek never won an ACC regular season, he finished 2nd, 3rd, and twice alone in 4th. Gottfried--a coach you and I rightly believe is a good fit for their program--has managed so far only to finish in a tie for fourth. Only Les Robinson's first season, a tie for third, matches any of Sendek's best seasons.

Would Duke have put up with a decade of Sendek's high mediocrity? Of course not. But Duke is a premiere program representing perhaps the best college basketball job in existence, while N.C. State is St. John's in a slightly different shade of red.

with the expansion of the league, finishing 4th now is probably better than finishing 3rd was when Herb did it

[NancyCarol]

I think it is just plain wrong to fire a coach during a tournament while the team is still playing. AND to go after a coach on another team while THEY are still playing. There should be a special foul called for this. The players have enough pressure without this going on.

[juise]

Sendek did a fine job in Raleigh; he did an unacceptable job in Tucson.

Well, to be fair, the Wildcats haven't lost at home since 2013. Herb did take them down in Tempe the last two years.

[freshmanjs]

I think it is just plain wrong to fire a coach during a tournament while the team is still playing. AND to go after a coach on another team while THEY are still playing. There should be a special foul called for this. The players have enough pressure without this going on.

what team fired a coach during a tournament while the team is still playing?

[juise]

I think it is just plain wrong to fire a coach during a tournament while the team is still playing. AND to go after a coach on another team while THEY are still playing. There should be a special foul called for this. The players have enough pressure without this going on.

I generally agree and wish that Jeff was kept out of this until Duke's season is over. I make an exception for when this practice caused Roy to say he doesn't give a #%@& about UNC. IN that case, it was awesome.

[juise]

what team fired a coach during a tournament while the team is still playing?

Anthony Grant

[Olympic Fan]

I think it is just plain wrong to fire a coach during a tournament while the team is still playing. AND to go after a coach on another team while THEY are still playing. There should be a special foul called for this. The players have enough pressure without this going on.

That doesn't apply here. Arizona State's season ended Sunday night with an NIT loss at Richmond. They waited until Herb and the team got home to fire him.

As for contacting another team's assistant while that team was playing ... Coach K was asked about that today. Said it was absolutely no problem, that it happens all the time. In fact, he suggested there were years when HE was contacted during a tourney run.

Essentially, his take was that it is part of the business and that he expected Jeff to handle it with professionalism.

Then he offered a STRONG endorsement of Capel as a head coach.

[SCMatt33]

what team fired a coach during a tournament while the team is still playing?

Alabama had yet to start it's NIT run when Anthony Grant was fired.

[OldPhiKap]

I don't get the dissing of State's current program. The bulk of their team is freshman and soph's. They had a great year by most standards, having won in Durham, Louisville and Chapel Hill. Just knocked off the hot #1 seed. Play tough. A very respectable NCAA tourney appearance run over the last five years.

I'm impressed. This is the closest to a heartbeat that has been found in Raleigh in about twenty-five years. And when UNC goes on probation, I am confident that State can pick up the slack in the Triangle.

[sagegrouse]

I think it is just plain wrong to fire a coach during a tournament while the team is still playing. AND to go after a coach on another team while THEY are still playing. There should be a special foul called for this. The players have enough pressure without this going on.

what team fired a coach during a tournament while the team is still playing?

Arizona state lost to the Richmond Spiders in the NIT on Sunday. i buh-leeve its season is over.

[Dev11]

with the expansion of the league, finishing 4th now is probably better than finishing 3rd was when Herb did it

Especially since two of the programs the ACC asded, Syracuse and Louisville, are almost definitely higher profile programs than NC State.

[OldPhiKap]

Especially since two of the programs the ACC asded, Syracuse and Louisville, are almost definitely higher profile programs than NC State.

Wasn't State picked to finish 10th or something?

Not to repeat myself (although I guess I'm about to) -- I have never heard anyone being unhappy with the current coaching job other than a few posters on this thread. If I were a Pack Fan I'd be thrilled. And as a rival fan, I respect the return of a strong corner of the Triangle.

[Dev11]

Wasn't State picked to finish 10th or something?

Not to repeat myself (although I guess I'm about to) -- I have never heard anyone being unhappy with the current coaching job other than a few posters on this thread. If I were a Pack Fan I'd be thrilled. And as a rival fan, I respect the return of a strong corner of the Triangle.

Oh, I think Gottfried is doing a great job in a conference that is probably tougher than it's been in a long time. If he keeps finding himself in the Sweet Sixteen and beating Duke and UNC during the regular season, I feel like State should be able to stomach him not winning ACC championships. It will be interesting if he's still around when Roy and K retire. Could State take the torch as the best outright program in the state?

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

what team fired a coach during a tournament while the team is still playing?

Michigan dismissed Bill Frieder in 1989, just before the NCAA tournament began, after he had accepted HC job at AZ State. Assistant Steve Fisher took over and led the team to championship.

[NancyCarol]

Doubtless my comment about firing during a tournament was inarticulate and not footnoted and hence was parsed. I wasn't referring specifically to the Sun Devils who yes are done with their season this year. I meant to be inclusive as a practice. I'm glad K is ok and that he considers this "business as usual", but I stand firm in my opinion that more than business is involved. The kids who play and who aren't paid put their hearts and souls on the court. Maybe I'll just go with this: If the team is like "family", and "uncle Jeff" is being tempted away after we became close and I still have eligibility left, I'm going to feel some kind of way that hasn't anything to do with business. Sports is also about emotion. And all your logic and facts won't change my view that these changes can easily wait until the season is over for all concerned. Now I'll just go dangle my participle somewhere else.