The Chronicle article - two sexual assault allegations against Rasheed Sulaimon

[Matches]

Common internet fallacy - the assumption that, because an event has not been made public, it must not have happened.

We do not know what investigation, if any, Duke performed. The Chronicle article quotes Dean Sue in saying that all charges of this nature are investigated, as the law requires. The school declining to share the specifics of that investigation <> the school doing nothing.

[Indoor66]

Agreed. If true, the victims are what really matter here. Everything else is secondary.

I find the highlighted text to be ridiculous - unless you include a possibly innocent accused among your victims. No one is sacrosanct in a situation like this. We do not know if anything happened. We don't know who to call the "victim". Until that is defined we need to keep both our sanctimony and condemnation in very close check.

[FerryFor50]

I find the highlighted text to be ridiculous - unless you include a possibly innocent accused among your victims. No one is sacrosanct in a situation like this. We do not know if anything happened. We don't know who to call the "victim". Until that is defined we need to keep both our sanctimony and condemnation in very close check.

I said "if true." I did not say it *is* true.

I personally don't care about implications to basketball or someone's good name if they are guilty of something like this.

Do you disagree that, if the allegations are true, there are other parties that matter more than the victims of said assault?

[jjredickrules]

Lastly, as a side note (and I don't mean to sound flippant about a very serious issue) what is it about Common Ground that it attracts women who have been sexually assaulted by Rasheed?!?! Common Ground takes 56 kids per semester -- out of 6000 at Duke -- and they happened to pick a woman who was assaulted by Sheed twice?!?! It makes one wonder if there are a lot more women on campus who may have been assaulted by him who have not had an open forum opportunity to speak about it. Shudder...

I have been on Common Ground. There are a few notes I can clarify.

1) In order to create a "safe space" for sharing, the leaders make clear that the participants should keep all shared experiences private. If the allegations were made public by people other than the alleged victims, it would be frowned upon. CG emphasizes that personal experiences are only the individual's to share.
2) The CG application asks for a story of personal struggle, so I find it likely that the CG committee saw the Sheed stories as a chance to spark dialogue on the retreat. CG participants are chosen in order to make a diverse group, but also to create tough, personal conversations. There is no reason to assume that the proportion of women who spoke of Sheed on CG is representative of the overall Duke population.
3) CG attracts people who have been assaulted in general because it is a safe space to have that discussion without fear of repercussions/backlash. I'd say if the ones who shared their stories in confidence didn't spread the allegations, then the Chronicle, as well as the "friends" who spread it, are causing more harm than good.

[IrishDevil]

Is there solid reporting that people at Duke in fact knew of the indirect allegations? And then, there is zero reporting on what might have been done with what little information may have been shared with Duke...so what precisely happened?

Let's wait for some more facts, and see what comes then.

My thinking also went along those lines, Mike.

“I wanted personally for the conversation to steer toward Coach K and Kevin White and I think he could sense that too,” Wensley said. “After advising me on my interactions with Laura Ann, he said that if I wanted to pursue further action on this issue that I would need to go through Student Conduct. And that Coach K had known and knew that Rasheed had these rumors swirling about him and that Kevin White had also known.”

It seems unlikely that is how this conversation went. Would an administrator in this situation sit down with a disgruntled former employee - a possible, maybe even probable whistleblower - and confirm that people in charge had knowledge, without saying something to the effect of, "and appropriate action was taken" ? It seems like prudence would dictate either don't say anything about who knew what, or state that they knew and acted appropriately. Otherwise, it would just be adding fuel to the fire. Either way, it seems to me that this article is reporting either more than what was said or less, although I couldn't say whether that is due to Wensley or the Chronicle. Or maybe it is because Mike Cragg actually said something that makes little sense to me in context. Just further reason to wait to see how things shake out.

[J_C_Steel]

If the women who decided not to report the sexual assault allegations were AT ALL pressured by anyone affiliated with Duke athletics, then Duke should be sanctioned by the NCAA. If not, it doesn't appear that sanctions could be pursued, but the 10-month lag between the reporting of the second assault and any action by the basketball program is nonetheless embarrassing and wrong. Even if these allegations are false, the program should have conducted its own investigation and suspended Sulaimon during its pendency. We don't know if the program conducted an investigation, but allowing Sulaimon to play after he faced TWO sexual assault allegations is not reasonable (in my view). Too many people -- including higher-ups in the Duke administration and even Coach K -- seem to think these kinds of thing can be ignored...

The only possible defense for the Duke basketball program is that the allegations were confidential and the need for privacy for all involved precluded them from making any kind of announcement. But even that doesn't excuse failing to conduct an investigation, if they failed to do so, or failing to suspend Sulaimon during its pendency.

A sad day for the program.

[CameronDuke]

It will be interesting to see more details regarding this case if any in the next few days. Does it have the potential to evolve into a disturbing and detrimental scandal for our program? For what I know so far, you bet it does. But after the Duke LAX case, I am reserving any opinions and judgments until I know more. I personally found that article confusing, at times aimless, and wandering. I have followed Coach K for as long as I can remember and he is a man of the utmost integrity and Duke has some of the best lawyers and administrative professionals in the world. This will be handled as best as it can by some of the best in their field. Obviously, if any wrongdoing did occur, I wish the victim the most sincere apologies and want healing to occur as the allegations are heinous. But I do not have nearly enough factual evidence as of this point to make any sort or call on who is wrong. Duke forever, though. We will sort this out and be the program of integrity and morals we always have been.

[Matches]

Even if these allegations are false, the program should have conducted its own investigation and suspended Sulaimon during its pendency.

How do you know this wasn't done?

There was a report when Sulaimon was dismissed that he was "separated from the team" for several weeks during the offseason. If the investigation occurred in the offseason, and was resolved by the time this season began, how would we ever know of a suspension?

[Kfanarmy]

Agreed. If true, the victims are what really matter here. Everything else is secondary.

The victims are what really matters if the accusations are true or false...who the victims are changes substantially however.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Very sad and disappointing news.

Also disappointing to me - the number of people posting on here using "I expect," "I assume," "I would imagine..." in their defense and/or critique of the handling here. At this point, it's extremely sketchy to work under any assumptions regarding either proper or improper handling of the situation.

If any fan base should know the dangers of jumping to conclusions, it ought to be us. I have very strong opinions about how I hope things were handled, but I am going to tread very lightly until more is known. If the coaches/administration have been anything other than above board, it might be time for me to step away from sports for awhile.

[FerryFor50]

The only possible defense for the Duke basketball program is that the allegations were confidential and the need for privacy for all involved precluded them from making any kind of announcement. But even that doesn't excuse failing to conduct an investigation, if they failed to do so, or failing to suspend Sulaimon during its pendency.

A sad day for the program.

Uh, that's not the "only" defense. That is THE defense. People's legal issues are no one's business but their own, the accuser's and the governing body.

Should your employer send out a mass email to your co-workers if you get accused of harassment at work?

How is this a "sad" day when we don't have all the facts?

[FerryFor50]

The victims are what really matters if the accusations are true or false...who the victims are changes substantially however.

I agree. My original post was in response to Mike Corey's post.

It's an unfortunate situation all around for everyone.

[J_C_Steel]

How do you know this wasn't done?

There was a report when Sulaimon was dismissed that he was "separated from the team" for several weeks during the offseason. If the investigation occurred in the offseason, and was resolved by the time this season began, how would we ever know of a suspension?

That's a good point. At this point, the program will have to make that clear. I don't know if a thorough investigation into two separate sexual assault allegations could be conducted in a 2- or 3-week period, but if that's what happened, some of my fears and disappointments will be allayed.

[DukeWarhead]

If the women who decided not to report the sexual assault allegations were AT ALL pressured by anyone affiliated with Duke athletics, then Duke should be sanctioned by the NCAA. If not, it doesn't appear that sanctions could be pursued, but the 10-month lag between the reporting of the second assault and any action by the basketball program is nonetheless embarrassing and wrong. Even if these allegations are false, the program should have conducted its own investigation and suspended Sulaimon during its pendency. We don't know if the program conducted an investigation, but allowing Sulaimon to play after he faced TWO sexual assault allegations is not reasonable (in my view). Too many people -- including higher-ups in the Duke administration and even Coach K -- seem to think these kinds of thing can be ignored...

The only possible defense for the Duke basketball program is that the allegations were confidential and the need for privacy for all involved precluded them from making any kind of announcement. But even that doesn't excuse failing to conduct an investigation, if they failed to do so, or failing to suspend Sulaimon during its pendency.

A sad day for the program.

OMG. The willingness to condemn in abscence of any real info or fact is stunning. A sad day for common sense.

[J_C_Steel]

How is this a "sad" day when we don't have all the facts?

When a player facing two separate sexual assault allegations was permitted to play games for the Duke basketball program without any indication that a thorough, fair investigation was conducted by the program into those investigations, and the issue is made public by the student newspaper, that qualifies as a "sad" day for me. Maybe you have different standards.

[tux]

If the women who decided not to report the sexual assault allegations were AT ALL pressured by anyone affiliated with Duke athletics, then Duke should be sanctioned by the NCAA. If not, it doesn't appear that sanctions could be pursued, but the 10-month lag between the reporting of the second assault and any action by the basketball program is nonetheless embarrassing and wrong. Even if these allegations are false, the program should have conducted its own investigation and suspended Sulaimon during its pendency. We don't know if the program conducted an investigation, but allowing Sulaimon to play after he faced TWO sexual assault allegations is not reasonable (in my view). Too many people -- including higher-ups in the Duke administration and even Coach K -- seem to think these kinds of thing can be ignored...

The only possible defense for the Duke basketball program is that the allegations were confidential and the need for privacy for all involved precluded them from making any kind of announcement. But even that doesn't excuse failing to conduct an investigation, if they failed to do so, or failing to suspend Sulaimon during its pendency.

A sad day for the program.

But it's important to realize that Sulaimon didn't "face TWO sexual assault allegations". No formal allegations were made. Furthermore, I would think that it's not the basketball program's responsibility to investigate. If Duke University needs the basketball program to launch an investigation of a sexual assault, then something is truly wrong. If the folks responsible for these things failed to investigate, or would have expelled Rasheed except were pressured by the athletic department not to, then THAT would be devastating. I would hope a players standing on an athletic team and/or at the university due to such an incident is handled outside the athletic department and the latter has no bearing on the outcome. Isn't that the way it's supposed to work?

At this point, we don't know enough to second guess what anyone did or didn't do.

[Matches]

That's a good point. At this point, the program will have to make that clear.

Well, I'd love to know that information too, but I don't agree the program will have to make that clear. In fact, I think it may be legally prohibited from doing so. I'm sure we'd all like to know the whole story here, but both the accusers and the accused have privacy rights that the school can't compromise.

[FerryFor50]

When a player facing two separate sexual assault allegations was permitted to play games for the Duke basketball program without any indication that a thorough, fair investigation was conducted by the program into those investigations, and the issue is made public by the student newspaper, that qualifies as a "sad" day for me. Maybe you have different standards.

As has been already stated, how do you know an investigation wasn't conducted? Because the Chronicle article that included references to "the next Duke scandal" and an FSU comparison didn't report it?

In fact, the article states that K knew about "rumors swirling." Those are hardly allegations made by an accuser.

[DukeWarhead]

When a player facing two separate sexual assault allegations was permitted to play games for the Duke basketball program without any indication that a thorough, fair investigation was conducted by the program into those investigations, and the issue is made public by the student newspaper, that qualifies as a "sad" day for me. Maybe you have different standards.

This line of conjecture, assumption, and accusation is actually more dangerous to the truth than anything else. Jeeez.

[J_C_Steel]

OMG. The willingness to condemn in abscence of any real info or fact is stunning. A sad day for common sense.

The article includes "real info," my friend. And the simple fact is that a player facing two separate allegations of sexual assault played games for the Duke basketball program. Until and unless I hear that the program conducted a thorough investigation into both incidents and absolved Sulaimon, I will continue to see this as a "sad" day and a "sad" development. You are certainly entitled to think otherwise.