UNC Athletics Scandal: Sporting News Joins the unc Bashing

[Tripping William]

Oh, great. And who's going to pay for the premium coffee I just spewed all over my computer?

Joseph Goebbels, duh.

[Duke76]

Wow. This is sad, sick, delusional, pick any word. As I have said from Day 1, the above is the mindset of the vast majority of unc-cheat fans and alums in this State. The person is in 100% total denial. He/She speaks of "false narratives", "untruth's", "Willingham being reinstated to her job = worse case scenario", and more importantly goes on and on about the "Core" and then slams Holden Thorpe for actually putting academics first. How awful of him. I mean you would think that these universities are there to just provide an education or something. Don't these people get the fact that the primary goal is to win athletic contests and hang banners??


I also thought the commentary about "getting the wrong judge" was hilarious. You mean they somehow managed to draw a judge in this state with no affiliation to unc-cheat? What are those odds??

would like to hear your thoughts on the Wall St. Journal article

[94duke]

Improper admissions to graduate school to maintain eligibility.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/02/...-led.html?rh=1

[Faustus]

I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

[JBDuke]

Improper admissions to graduate school to maintain eligibility.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/02/...-led.html?rh=1

Wow. And the hits just keep on coming!

Knox I don't have so much of a problem with - sounds like he was a good student and might have gained admission on his own merits - he just needed an exception for applying after the deadline. He even did the classwork. But Michael Waddell is a completely different story. And it's another one outside of the AFAM department, too.

Thanks for the link!

[SoCalDukeFan]

Wow. And the hits just keep on coming!

Knox I don't have so much of a problem with - sounds like he was a good student and might have gained admission on his own merits - he just needed an exception for applying after the deadline. He even did the classwork. But Michael Waddell is a completely different story. And it's another one outside of the AFAM department, too.

Thanks for the link!

has a unc-ch degree. Those things are getting devalued daily.

SoCal

[dudog84]

I arrived at Duke from Pennsylvania in the fall of 1980 with absolutely no knowledge of the ACC and its rivalries, but quickly came to despise all things Carolina Blue (under the tutelage of the upperclassmen in my dorm). But in a good way, if you know what I mean. I thought it was the best rivalry in college.

When the "AFAM" scandal (I use quotes because I believe it goes far beyond that department which is being scapegoated) broke, I was kinda happy. Screw those sanctimonious jerks.

But now I'm just kinda sad. How pathetic they are.

[tallguy]

Improper admissions to graduate school to maintain eligibility.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/02/...-led.html?rh=1

This is old news...I mean, just look at UNC's online MBA school ads (courtesy of @SportsChannel8):
unccheat.jpg

[Duke95]

Go to class Carolina, go to class!

[Henderson]

Wow. And the hits just keep on coming!

Knox I don't have so much of a problem with - sounds like he was a good student and might have gained admission on his own merits - he just needed an exception for applying after the deadline. He even did the classwork. But Michael Waddell is a completely different story. And it's another one outside of the AFAM department, too.

Thanks for the link!

Yeah, good link. I agree that Knox and Waddell ended up differently situated, but their cases both explode two common myths about this whole sordid period:

1. That this scandal was just an AFAM issue. I don't know why this myth even still exists, but here we obviously have the "PE" department involved; and

2. That this scandal is just academic, not athletic. I don't know why this myth even exists either, but here we have the Athletic Department requesting special academic dispensation in order to gain eligibility for players who otherwise would not have been. Note that the SACS accreditation was premised on UNC's report of the admission requirements for each department, including "PE." [SACS to UNC: "We'll grant accreditation based on the admission requirements you reported to us you were following."] UNC (at the request of the Athletic Department) sidestepped those admission requirements, and there was nothing in the graduate PE department's admission criteria that provided for special dispensation for anyone. They only did it for athletes, and it was NOT what they told SACS they were doing in gaining reaccreditation.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

They only did it for athletes, and it was NOT what they told SACS they were doing in gaining reaccreditation.

The question will always remain, does anyone at SACS (or the NCAA for that matter) have a big enough pair to take meaningful action. UNC sure is doing their best to find out.

[Seattle Hoo]

Yeah, good link. I agree that Knox and Waddell ended up differently situated, but their cases both explode two common myths about this whole sordid period:.

Are these even "myths"? They're UNCheat PR spin that their fans and much of the media (TV) willfully choose to propagate. Good to see the PR firms are delivering value for the millions UNCheat is paying them.

[Henderson]

Are these even "myths"? They're UNCheat PR spin that their fans and much of the media (TV) willfully choose to propagate. Good to see the PR firms are delivering value for the millions UNCheat is paying them.

I don't know if these actually qualify as myths, but they certainly are constructed narratives without basis in fact used by a group to help explain the troubling phenomena swirling around them. And myth-busting is a noble and useful endeavor. (It also makes for good TV if things are exploding when the myths are tested against fact).

As for PR, I like to reread Dr. Rosenrosen's signature page quote. It comes from a May 2014 commenter, Dave R. Bennerino, on one of the many failed attempts (reported by the N&O) by UNC-CH to embed its reality-challenged narrative in the public consciousness. All that PR money certainly would have bought a lot of peppermint, but you can only deny the stink so long.

Part of me wants the NCAA and SACS to act soon. But then I think, why ruin a good thing? Keep the dribbles coming.

[bbosbbos]

Very sad to read in IC that many (if not all) cheater fans do not care about the cheating or deny all their wrong doings. The name of UNC actually means nothing to their stupid fans, instead they want to keep cheater Roy and their fake basketball tittles. Very sad.

[bob blue devil]

so the latest is ugly on the surface, but how much of a problem for u*nc is this?
- the article implies that with SACS it could be a problem because u*nc ignored its own graduate admission standards... does anybody have a sense for the reality of this?
- it also implies that the ncaa could regard the favored application status as an "extra benefit". this seems like a stretch to me, as all big time athletes receive special consideration, but i think i'm missing a nuance... even if someone explained to me the distinction, i worry it may be a case of distinction without a difference.
- more bad PR is a problem, but i'm not sure it really matters any more. most neutral observers see this as an old story and don't care to learn the scale/depth of what has gone on. if you are going to be outraged by this, you already are outraged - i can't say i'm more outraged. and of course, if you can rationalize what has already happened at u*nc/or are comfortable ignoring it, well i don't think anything is changing you at this point.
are there any other angles?
at any rate, more well deserved shame for u*nc.

[Henderson]

Let me try.

so the latest is ugly on the surface, but how much of a problem for u*nc is this?

The dribbling out of these stories keeps the story alive, and that's an ongoing problem for UNC-CH. I would argue that BB recruiting has already been substantially impaired. And these stories keep that going.

the article implies that with SACS it could be a problem because u*nc ignored its own graduate admission standards... does anybody have a sense for the reality of this?

There is zero chance that SACS revokes accreditation. Zero. But it seems likely they would not feel relevant anymore if they gave UNC-CH a clean bill of health. I could imagine enough outrage at the upcoming SACS meeting for decision in favor of probation. But unaccreditation? No way. Not with UNC-CH. They are the accreditation version of "too big to fail." Perhaps more importantly is the fact that this shows more wrong-doing: If SACS doesn't care, the rest of the world might yet.

it also implies that the ncaa could regard the favored application status as an "extra benefit". this seems like a stretch to me, as all big time athletes receive special consideration, but i think i'm missing a nuance... even if someone explained to me the distinction, i worry it may be a case of distinction without a difference.

Agreed. It's a really weak thread. Gotta let that idea go.

more bad PR is a problem, but i'm not sure it really matters any more. most neutral observers see this as an old story and don't care to learn the scale/depth of what has gone on. if you are going to be outraged by this, you already are outraged - i can't say i'm more outraged. and of course, if you can rationalize what has already happened at u*nc/or are comfortable ignoring it, well i don't think anything is changing you at this point.
are there any other angles?

I respectully disagree. Not everyone knows about this stuff; maybe it's not in their list of news items to follow. But the more it dribbles out, the more people notice. And I don't think there's much of a saturation point for that. Keeping it on the table not only raises questions for UNC-CH recruits and their parents, but it builds by cumulation a commonly accepted narrative that UNC cheated pervasively and that the cheating was not "academic" so much as "athletic".

at any rate, more well deserved shame for u*nc.

And it's because they deserve it. They brought it on themselves and continue to make it worse by not confronting it quickly and honestly. Never too late, I guess, but I'm not holding my breath.

[dukelifer]

Let me try.



The dribbling out of these stories keeps the story alive, and that's an ongoing problem for UNC-CH. I would argue that BB recruiting has already been substantially impaired. And these stories keep that going.



There is zero chance that SACS revokes accreditation. Zero. But it seems likely they would not feel relevant anymore if they gave UNC-CH a clean bill of health. I could imagine enough outrage at the upcoming SACS meeting for decision in favor of probation. But unaccreditation? No way. Not with UNC-CH. They are the accreditation version of "too big to fail."



Agreed. It's a really weak thread. Gotta let that idea go.



I respectully disagree. Not everyone knows about this stuff; maybe it's not in their list of news items to follow. But the more it dribbles out, the more people notice. And I don't think there's much of a saturation point for that. Keeping it on the table not only raises questions for UNC-CH recruits and their parents, but it builds by cumulation a commonly accepted narrative that UNC cheated pervasively and that the cheating was not "academic" so much as "athletic".



And it's because they deserve it. They brought it on themselves and continue to make it worse by not confronting it quickly and honestly. Never too late, I guess, but I'm not holding my breath.

SACS just started to look at graduate programs in earnest. Many Universities including Duke have not had formal assessment processes in place. They do now. SACs is a thorn but one that can be managed if you show a process is in place.

SACS can still make them jump through lots of hoops just because they can. Unlikely that they will shut them down but they do have power to make it uncomfortable should they choose to exercise that power. In other words, UNC cannot say no to requests because they are "too big to fail". We shall see.

On this issue- folks should recognize that grad admissions at the Masters level is much different than at the ugrad and PhD level. In general - there is much discretion here and simply being a member of the football team - provided the student graduated - could be sufficient for admission. The program takes a hit due to the possibly lower metrics of the student ( as these things may be reported) but 1 or 2 special cases is unlikely to affect things.

[Henderson]

SACS just started to look at graduate programs in earnest. Many Universities including Duke have not had formal assessment processes in place. They do now. SACs is a thorn but one that can be managed if you show a process is in place.

SACS can still make them jump through lots of hoops just because they can. Unlikely that they will shut them down but they do have power to make it uncomfortable should they choose to exercise that power. In other words, UNC cannot say no to requests because they are "too big to fail". We shall see.

On this issue- folks should recognize that grad admissions at the Masters level is much different than at the ugrad and PhD level. In general - there is much discretion here and simply being a member of the football team - provided the student graduated - could be sufficient for admission. The program takes a hit due to the possibly lower metrics of the student ( as these things may be reported) but 1 or 2 special cases is unlikely to affect things.

Good insights. Sporks. But I bolded the above to make the point that every straw is as important as the last when the camel finally breaks its back.

[BD80]

Sounds like more evidence for a finding of a lack of institutional control. Also greatly weakens the defense of "just a rogue professor and an overzealous advisor in a single new department of academic study." This helps establish a pattern of indifference to academic standards to keep athletes eligible.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

The crime here on its own is small. But when you take all the transgressions together it is nothing short of astounding. I am blown about by the widespread influence that athletics had all over the university and the fact that so many were taken in by the scam and stood silently complicit in support of cheating.