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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by GGLC View Post
    I believe Matt Jones is an elite (say, top conference quintile among guards) defender.
    Grayson made a really bad turnover by telegraphing a lazy pass out on perimeter. I can't remember is Miami scored off it or not but those kind of errors will probably get the hook quicker than a missed open shot.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by GGLC View Post
    I believe Matt Jones is an elite (say, top conference quintile among guards) defender.
    Matt tries harder than anybody on the team. He also throws his body around with no regard. However, I don't think he is agile enough to lock the best down. In my opinion, Duke has one elite defender- Winslow. I believe Coach K agrees

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by dukejunkie View Post
    Matt tries harder than anybody on the team. He also throws his body around with no regard. However, I don't think he is agile enough to lock the best down. In my opinion, Duke has one elite defender- Winslow. I believe Coach K agrees
    Coach K has said also that Rasheed is the teams best on the ball defender. So, I guess Matt, Rasheed and Justise are our best defenders. Well, wait a minute, I think Amile is a pretty good defender as well. GoDuke!

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    Coach K has said also that Rasheed is the teams best on the ball defender. So, I guess Matt, Rasheed and Justise are our best defenders. Well, wait a minute, I think Amile is a pretty good defender as well. GoDuke!
    I thought about those two too. Funny how such a talented defensive team is performing. Maybe it is time for optimism!

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    I sincerely hope you knocked on wood immediately after typing those words.
    My computer is made of wood.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by dukejunkie View Post
    I thought about those two too. Funny how such a talented defensive team is performing. Maybe it is time for optimism!
    I think it's called a "Fist" because if one player is out of position, then the team as a whole breaks down. GoDuke!

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    greater New Orleans area
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    The main guy who disagrees with you is Coach K. He has called out Matt Jones' defense as a big positive during press conferences. When the big guy believes something it is reality.
    As much as I respect Coach K, I'm sure he believed Duke wasn't going to get their____ handed to them by Miami. I don't think anyone on the perimeter played great defense, but that wasn't player failure either.

  8. #28
    I like what I've seen of Grayson so far. He is not ready yet for big minutes but I like working him into the rotation. Teams like Miami and State would love to have a Grayson Allen on their squad. He can spell our big minute getters with 10 minutes of play/ game and the starters will play with more energy, knowing that they have gas in the tank to burn. I doubt that he'll get that much time this year but I'd be thrilled if he did. A more realistic prediction is that his minutes remain as they are and his role becomes more and more important to the team year by year.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by Kfanarmy View Post
    As much as I respect Coach K, I'm sure he believed Duke wasn't going to get their____ handed to them by Miami. I don't think anyone on the perimeter played great defense, but that wasn't player failure either.
    I think that's a safe assumption, even at half time, when we had a lead.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  10. #30
    Figured this thread could use a bump. Nobody can replace Rasheed. However, Grayson is almost certainly going to get more PT. I'm not sure if K just tightens the rotation or if Grayson does get real minutes. I think he has it in him. We shall see...

    Sad day for Duke hoops and Rasheed. Whole situation is a shame.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by dukejunkie View Post
    Figured this thread could use a bump. Nobody can replace Rasheed. However, Grayson is almost certainly going to get more PT. I'm not sure if K just tightens the rotation or if Grayson does get real minutes. I think he has it in him. We shall see...

    Sad day for Duke hoops and Rasheed. Whole situation is a shame.
    It'll be interesting to see if Grayson does start to get meaningful minutes or if K just gives Marshall a few more minutes and we stick with the usual 7-man rotation. I don't think anything's certain at this point.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    It'll be interesting to see if Grayson does start to get meaningful minutes or if K just gives Marshall a few more minutes and we stick with the usual 7-man rotation. I don't think anything's certain at this point.
    I don't think anything really changes. You earn minutes. Grayson hasn't earned them yet. I don't think he will get 5 extra minutes a game just for the hell of it. He may be brought it out of necessity, but I think we are going to rock a 7 man rotation for the vast majority of the time.
    Whatever the hell "it" is, Jabari found it.

    -Roy "Ole Huck" Williams

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehky View Post
    I don't think anything really changes. You earn minutes. Grayson hasn't earned them yet. I don't think he will get 5 extra minutes a game just for the hell of it. He may be brought it out of necessity, but I think we are going to rock a 7 man rotation for the vast majority of the time.
    I think you're probably right. But you never know. For what it's worth, from what I've seen I don't at all think Grayson is a bad defender. I think he has the tools to be better than Tyus or Quinn at the very least, and eventually actually be a plus defender. I just don't know whether he's ready to play meaningful minutes yet.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehky View Post
    I don't think anything really changes. You earn minutes. Grayson hasn't earned them yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I just don't know whether he's ready to play meaningful minutes yet.
    Ready or not, 8 scholarship players is 8 scholarship players. I agree with you guys that our default is probably going to be a 7 man rotation, but I think it's basically guaranteed that at some point during the remainder of the season Grayson will see some minutes of playing time in a competitive game due to foul trouble or somebody getting cramps or whatever.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Obviously it isn't certain, but I would expect Sulaimon's 19 mpg to be distributed something like as follows:

    Winslow: +3 (from 27 to 30)
    Matt Jones: +8 (from 17 to 25)
    Jefferson: +4 (from 24 to 28)
    Plumlee: +2 (from 9 to 11)
    Allen: +2 (from 5* to 7)

    I think the biggest change is that Matt Jones now becomes essentially a 6th starter, and we will now see the small lineup much less.

    I think this will give Matt Jones and (indirectly) Jefferson and Plumlee a chance to seize more playing time. But I would have expected Coach to tighten the rotation anyway, so I see this as simply forcing the tightening rather than giving Allen a big boost.

    There will surely be times (injury, multiple players in foul trouble) where Allen gets pressed into more action. But in terms of the normal rotation, I am not sure we will see a big change.

    * the 5 is his average over all games as he had 4 DNPs

  16. #36
    I think that you are underestimating Allen's importance. There are times when a team can use an offensive spark off the bench. Sulaimon definitely could provide it. I'm pretty sure that Duke is not going to get it from Plumlee or Matt Jones. By default, K might have to try Allen some in that role- not just because of injuries or foul trouble.

    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Obviously it isn't certain, but I would expect Sulaimon's 19 mpg to be distributed something like as follows:

    Winslow: +3 (from 27 to 30)
    Matt Jones: +8 (from 17 to 25)
    Jefferson: +4 (from 24 to 28)
    Plumlee: +2 (from 9 to 11)
    Allen: +2 (from 5* to 7)

    I think the biggest change is that Matt Jones now becomes essentially a 6th starter, and we will now see the small lineup much less.

    I think this will give Matt Jones and (indirectly) Jefferson and Plumlee a chance to seize more playing time. But I would have expected Coach to tighten the rotation anyway, so I see this as simply forcing the tightening rather than giving Allen a big boost.

    There will surely be times (injury, multiple players in foul trouble) where Allen gets pressed into more action. But in terms of the normal rotation, I am not sure we will see a big change.

    * the 5 is his average over all games as he had 4 DNPs

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Obviously it isn't certain, but I would expect Sulaimon's 19 mpg to be distributed something like as follows:

    Winslow: +3 (from 27 to 30)
    Matt Jones: +8 (from 17 to 25)
    Jefferson: +4 (from 24 to 28)
    Plumlee: +2 (from 9 to 11)
    Allen: +2 (from 5* to 7)

    I think the biggest change is that Matt Jones now becomes essentially a 6th starter, and we will now see the small lineup much less.

    I think this will give Matt Jones and (indirectly) Jefferson and Plumlee a chance to seize more playing time. But I would have expected Coach to tighten the rotation anyway, so I see this as simply forcing the tightening rather than giving Allen a big boost.

    There will surely be times (injury, multiple players in foul trouble) where Allen gets pressed into more action. But in terms of the normal rotation, I am not sure we will see a big change.

    * the 5 is his average over all games as he had 4 DNPs
    I think Allen needs to have a bigger role. Right now, the only 2 real playmakers we have are both in the starting lineup. Rasheed's ability to get in the paint from the perimeter and make plays was a vital part of our bench, and Allen is the only guy coming off the bench who could realistically develop that skill set. (I think we mostly know the limitations of Matt Jones' game at this point) I don't think he gets Sulaimon's 19 minutes, but I think he needs to get 10-12 minutes, and then maybe more if he starts to prove himself.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    I think Allen needs to have a bigger role. Right now, the only 2 real playmakers we have are both in the starting lineup. Rasheed's ability to get in the paint from the perimeter and make plays was a vital part of our bench, and Allen is the only guy coming off the bench who could realistically develop that skill set. (I think we mostly know the limitations of Matt Jones' game at this point) I don't think he gets Sulaimon's 19 minutes, but I think he needs to get 10-12 minutes, and then maybe more if he starts to prove himself.
    Even with depleted depth I would be shocked if Grayson gets anywhere near 10-12 minutes p/g for the rest of the season. I know you've been very high on him and I like him a lot too. I think he will be a nice role player while at Duke but he just hasn't shown anything to indicate that he is ready to compete at this level, yet. Sure he's athletic, he can shoot it and handle a little bit, but the game appears way too fast for him right now. I think K is going with primarily a 7-man rotation from here on out with Grayson filling in on spot duty when foul issues arise. K may insert him in the 1st half of a few games just to get some sort of feel for how much he may have going. But he'll be quick to yank him once Grayson starts to look out of place and will only come off the bench if/when there is serious foul trouble amongst our other guards.
    "Just be you. You is Enough."

  19. #39

    Game has been too fast for him

    When a player in many sports moved to the next level, has some problems, then improves you often hear commentators says something like the game is starting to slow down for him.

    In my opinion the college game is still too fast for Grayson. I would guess that over time it will in fact slow down for him.

    I don't think he will just be awarded minutes because Rasheed is not there. He will probably get some more minutes out of necessity and hopefully will benefit greatly from the experience and it will accelerate the process of slowing the game for him.

    SoCal

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by jipops View Post
    Even with depleted depth I would be shocked if Grayson gets anywhere near 10-12 minutes p/g for the rest of the season. I know you've been very high on him and I like him a lot too. I think he will be a nice role player while at Duke but he just hasn't shown anything to indicate that he is ready to compete at this level, yet. Sure he's athletic, he can shoot it and handle a little bit, but the game appears way too fast for him right now. I think K is going with primarily a 7-man rotation from here on out with Grayson filling in on spot duty when foul issues arise. K may insert him in the 1st half of a few games just to get some sort of feel for how much he may have going. But he'll be quick to yank him once Grayson starts to look out of place and will only come off the bench if/when there is serious foul trouble amongst our other guards.
    I expect Grayson to get more minutes. He is averaging 3-4 MPG in ACC action and 5-6 overall. If he gets eight minutes a game, that's a big increase, and I think likely. I'm not sure, though, that he'll see a lot of action tomorrow at JPJ.

    As usual, you can take all my predictions to the bank -- that's the Bank of Kiev.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

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