North Carolina rivalries. (Or, Dean Smith hates shaking your hand)

[arnie]

Well, if you read what Mr. Sumner and I wrote above, I believe the no handshake tradition arose
during those nasty ACC games, and frankly it was a good idea back then. I'm not sure exactly when it began, but I know it was absolutely inconceivable teams would shake hands after those games. The hatred was
absolutely intense.

Seems to me that the players get along today but the hatred is much more fan-based than years ago. I guess with all the games televised, fans have more familiarity with opposing players and coaches which enflames them. Very difficult for me at opposing arenas/stadiums even if Duke isn't the opponent. The fan vitriol and ref-blaming is over the top yet the players seem ok with everything at post game.

[OldPhiKap]

Seems to me that the players get along today but the hatred is much more fan-based than years ago. I guess with all the games televised, fans have more familiarity with opposing players and coaches which enflames them. Very difficult for me at opposing arenas/stadiums even if Duke isn't the opponent. The fan vitriol and ref-blaming is over the top yet the players seem ok with everything at post game.

A lot of the players get to know each other in AAU and national teams. I think that helps lessen the personal animosity. And they we're recruited by the same coaches and teams as well.

[jimsumner]

ACC teams used to shake hands before games, as part of the pre-game introductions. Until Danny Ferry and Virginia's Tom Sheehy almost unhinged each other's shoulder joints before one game. Didn't seem like such a good idea after that.

[OldPhiKap]

ACC teams used to shake hands before games, as part of the pre-game introductions. Until Danny Ferry and Virginia's Tom Sheehy almost unhinged each other's shoulder joints before one game. Didn't seem like such a good idea after that.

I think you mean Dan Meagher:

http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/2...asketball-best

Sheehey was a thug. But Dan was no saint, either.

[jimsumner]

I think you mean Dan Meagher:

http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/2...asketball-best

Sheehey was a thug. But Dan was no saint, either.

I thought it was Ferry. Or maybe both and Sheehy was the common factor.

Meagher grew up in Ontario and always brought a hockey player's mentality to the court. If it's in your way, go through it. Certainly got in Dean Smith's craw.

[Indoor66]

I thought it was Ferry. Or maybe both and Sheehy was the common factor.

Meagher grew up in Ontario and always brought a hockey player's mentality to the court. If it's in your way, go through it. Certainly got in Dean Smith's craw.

Dean always had a very tender craw.

[budwom]

Seems to me that the players get along today but the hatred is much more fan-based than years ago. I guess with all the games televised, fans have more familiarity with opposing players and coaches which enflames them. Very difficult for me at opposing arenas/stadiums even if Duke isn't the opponent. The fan vitriol and ref-blaming is over the top yet the players seem ok with everything at post game.

I think that's true. The Duke-unc fans don't get along, yet it's common to read about players from the respective schools hanging out at some of the same places (not classrooms, ha ha). I suspect it also helps that many of them know each from having played on AAU or national teams together.

[Henderson]

As long as we are on the topic, I'll say that the whole ritualized handshaking thing seems a bit odd.

[devildeac]

As long as we are on the topic, I'll say that the whole ritualized handshaking thing seems a bit odd.

Maryland football players agree.

[cspan37421]

As long as we are on the topic, I'll say that the whole ritualized handshaking thing seems a bit odd.

At the risk of stating the obvious, I think it's ritualized sportsmanship. To show good will after the game is over. Even boxers "shake" hands before a fight by bumping gloved fists. NFL coaches shake hands after a game - college usually too.

Many times BB players shake before a game too. You certainly see it in Final Four.

Frankly I'm in favor of more sportsmanship in sports. I think it's good for the culture. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't take a little pleasure in seeing a player from my favorite teams "getting even" with a provocateur. It's unwise and foolish - usually the one retaliating gets caught - but it does provide a bit of emotional catharsis. It's like what Mark Twain said about swearing: "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer."

[Reilly]

I think you mean Dan Meagher:

http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/2...asketball-best

Sheehey was a thug. But Dan was no saint, either.

I thought it was Ferry. Or maybe both and Sheehy was the common factor. ...

What I recall is that at the center circle in a game in Cameron -- after "Meaghar spit in your face" had been a thing -- Ferry and Sheehey met at the center circle for the pre-game hand-slap/shake, and as they were slapping hands and Ferry was turning to run toward his teammates at the foul line, Sheehey tried to kick Ferry -- kicked at him. Center court. Pre-game. All eyes on those two players. I don't think a 'T' was called, but that's what I recall happening, and it was astounding to see that.

Those were the days when Duke was on its awesome run of beating Virginia every single game. Coach K often did his "speak to all the students in little clumps at a time" thing before the Virginia games, working his away around the lower bowl, getting the students psyched. Pretty wild/stoked atmospheres.

[luvdahops]

What I recall is that at the center circle in a game in Cameron -- after "Meaghar spit in your face" had been a thing -- Ferry and Sheehey met at the center circle for the pre-game hand-slap/shake, and as they were slapping hands and Ferry was turning to run toward his teammates at the foul line, Sheehey tried to kick Ferry -- kicked at him. Center court. Pre-game. All eyes on those two players. I don't think a 'T' was called, but that's what I recall happening, and it was astounding to see that.

Those were the days when Duke was on its awesome run of beating Virginia every single game. Coach K often did his "speak to all the students in little clumps at a time" thing before the Virginia games, working his away around the lower bowl, getting the students psyched. Pretty wild/stoked atmospheres.

Don't know if it happened before or after the game you reference above, but there was an incident during the '86 or '87 season where Ferry and Sheehey were lined up next to each other on a foul shout, and after the ball went up, Ferry hit Sheehey in the family jewels (replays made it look pretty purposeful), and Sheehey responded with a hard elbow to Ferry's chin. Can't recall if Sheehey was ejected, but he was at least T'd up and called for a personal foul.

[burnspbesq]

Ferry wasn't exactly a saint, either. The day his number was retired, he got Mark Randall of Kansas with a blind back-screen and nearly killed the guy. It was awesome.

[southgater]

Back to the Big 4 days...

My wife was in the Chapel Choir during the late 70's and tells me that the choir was quite involved with keeping tabs on the Big 4 games during performances of the Messiah. The choir, at least back then sat on 2 sides of the alter, behind it. During the performance some of the choir members would listen to the game using earphones from their transistor radios. They would then signal the scores to other choir members across the alter from them. Apparently there were a whole set of well-known hand signals that would be used to convey the scores and other details. My wife is pretty sure that the choir director knew about this as well - maybe he was even keeping track of the scores.

[captmojo]

Seems to me that the players get along today but the hatred is much more fan-based than years ago. I guess with all the games televised, fans have more familiarity with opposing players and coaches which enflames them. Very difficult for me at opposing arenas/stadiums even if Duke isn't the opponent. The fan vitriol and ref-blaming is over the top yet the players seem ok with everything at post game.

...and the others that have commented on this. Since latter years of everyone recruiting on a larger national basis, the attention to any of the players having any "hatred" toward each other is lessened by the fact that many didn't grow up in the same environment that most all the older fans have done. It is our legacy, as growing up in the states of NC, VA, and to a lesser case SC, to carry on the traditions of many ancestors that have the same allegiances. For example, I recall hearing from former players of not being in total realization of the vitriol between fans of rival schools in the conference, until they got here and saw it for themselves. They grew up in different situations, in faraway lands. Many as far off as NY.

[sagegrouse]

Seems to me that the players get along today but the hatred is much more fan-based than years ago. I guess with all the games televised, fans have more familiarity with opposing players and coaches which enflames them. Very difficult for me at opposing arenas/stadiums even if Duke isn't the opponent. The fan vitriol and ref-blaming is over the top yet the players seem ok with everything at post game.

...and the others that have commented on this. Since latter years of everyone recruiting on a larger national basis, the attention to any of the players having any "hatred" toward each other is lessened by the fact that many didn't grow up in the same environment that most all the older fans have done. It is our legacy, as growing up in the states of NC, VA, and to a lesser case SC, to carry on the traditions of many ancestors that have the same allegiances. For example, I recall hearing from former players of not being in total realization of the vitriol between fans of rival schools in the conference, until they got here and saw it for themselves. They grew up in different situations, in faraway lands. Many as far off as NY.

My first time on this thread, and I may report what others have said far better.

In my era, the 1960s,' the players really seemed to have little use for each other. Art Heyman and Larry Brown being exhibit A. But the players knew each other only from the court and not from HS or AAU ball. The fans seemed to get along -- there was much more heat around the Duke-UNC football game.

Today IMHO (where the H is characteristically silent), the players act more like colleagues. The top players have known each other from national teams or AAU tournaments and know that they will play together or against each other in the NBA. It's a business -- today's competitor is tomorrow's teammate. I have recounted a tale of a typical summer for Washington-native Nolan Smith when he was at Duke: strength work out in the early morning; skills workout in the late morning (two different trainers) and then basketball scrimmages in the after noon at the U. of Maryland, where he was welcomed with open arms, despite the rivalry and despite a concussion at the hands of Dave Neal.

The fans today? Uh, it can be ugly. I just learned last month that UNC closes Franklin Street for celebrations (riots?) when UNC beats Duke -- in basketball but not in football.

[TruBlu]

The fans today? Uh, it can be ugly. I just learned last month that UNC closes Franklin Street for celebrations (riots?) when UNC beats Duke -- in basketball but not in football.

While I usually wish for only bad things for Chapel Hill, this year (and many years to come) I am hoping for a very calm and peaceful Franklin Street.

[Olympic Fan]

My first time on this thread, and I may report what others have said far better.

In my era, the 1960s,' the players really seemed to have little use for each other. Art Heyman and Larry Brown being exhibit A. But the players knew each other only from the court and not from HS or AAU ball. The fans seemed to get along -- there was much more heat around the Duke-UNC football game.

Today IMHO (where the H is characteristically silent), the players act more like colleagues. The top players have known each other from national teams or AAU tournaments and know that they will play together or against each other in the NBA. It's a business -- today's competitor is tomorrow's teammate. I have recounted a tale of a typical summer for Washington-native Nolan Smith when he was at Duke: strength work out in the early morning; skills workout in the late morning (two different trainers) and then basketball scrimmages in the after noon at the U. of Maryland, where he was welcomed with open arms, despite the rivalry and despite a concussion at the hands of Dave Neal.

The fans today? Uh, it can be ugly. I just learned last month that UNC closes Franklin Street for celebrations (riots?) when UNC beats Duke -- in basketball but not in football.

While I agree with your point in general, you picked a bad example to illustrate it. Heyman and Brown grew up as playground rivals on Long Island. They were bitter enemies long before getting to Tobacco Road. They used to get into fights all the time. The interesting thing is that when Art signed his letter-of-intent to play UNC, he and Brown were slated to be roommates. I won der how that would have worked out?

And I also wonder about the anti-Semetic slurs that cascaded from the UNC fans in those days -- Brown was also Jewish.