MBB: Duke v. UConn (Thu 12/18 8 pm ET, ESPN) Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

[tbyers11]

I'm not sure there is a "right" or "wrong" way to feel about these sorts of things. And I'm pretty sure there's a lot of space between privately "hating" UConn -- and UK fans en masse wearing dopey "I Still Hate Laettner" shirts around at every NCAA Tournament game I've been to in the last decade or so.

I watched the '99 season in person as a senior, and left Cameron in a silent sobbing parade while UConn students jumped up and down in Gampel Pavilion on the jumbotron. I felt the loss viscerally-- it still makes me sad. I would never contend UConn "stole" the game. But that loss, in combination with the excruciating loss in '04, have me keyed up when Duke plays UConn. Games like this in December don't matter that much, but if we had faced them in say, the 2011 Elite Eight (which would have happened if Arizona did not briefly turn into the Phoenix Suns) that game would rate with me. Way more than an ordinary game with UNC, and certainly more than facing Xavier or Temple with the Final Four on the line.

Yes-- I remember 1990, But UConn has had our number in the NCAA Tournament. As a fan, I want to see Duke pay it back. I don't know if that's "hate," but if so I am on board.

Personally, it "irks" me to pretend that a team that beat us to win the NCAA title twice (and yes I know '04 was technically a semi-final) is "not our rival." Unlike Maryland, UConn's fans have a reason to woof.

And they bark plenty.

Could not agree more with the message in this post. I was a freshman when Duke was up plenty in the final minutes of the 2004 FF. That team of Redick, S Williams, Duhon, Ewing, Deng, and Dockery will always be my favorite. And I despised UConn for what they did, better team or not.

And I love when people try and tell me who I can and cannot like/dislike. It's called emotions.

Bring on UConn tonight. I'm pumped.

I'm not pretending. They're not our rival. We've played them nine (9) times in the history of the school, and only once in the past 10 years. I'm sorry the loss in 1999 made you sad. In my opinion, that's no reason to hate someone or somebody.

Hate is a strong word and I think both Monmouth77 and FDD either don't use or qualify the term. I'll use dislike. I strongly dislike UConn. I don't care how often we've played them or whether they are considered a rival. Like Monmouth I was a senior who watched the 99 championship game in Cameron and exited the building in the mass exodus of shocked sadness. That one game is enough for me to dislike them for a LONG time. Throw in the 2004 FF loss and the time frame has been extended. Ollie replacing Calhoun has caused my feelings to soften on them slightly, but besides UNC I'd rather beat UConn than anyone else (UK, NCST, MD included).

You cite a small number of games, but 2 of those games were the biggest of big games and like/dislike is pretty emotional. We are talking about a basketball team here, not family members or co-workers, and I think that's a perfectly good reason to dislike a basketball team. YMMV.

[Monmouth77]

I'm not pretending. They're not our rival. We've played them nine (9) times in the history of the school, and only once in the past 10 years. I'm sorry the loss in 1999 made you sad. In my opinion, that's no reason to hate someone or somebody.

But per your previous post it's OK to "hate" a team we've played hundreds of times for bragging rights and conference titles but never for a National Championship. Got it.

My point is that it's subjective. And I'll bet Coach K thought of Calhoun as a pretty formidable coaching rival -- someone who stood between him and 2 rings.

Anyway, Go Duke!

[Billy Dat]

Condone it or not, I hated Calhoun's teams. The heart hates what the heart hates.
I often plan to root one way, but find myself pulling for the other side. I don't plan to hate, it just happens.

Well said on both counts. I always laugh to myself when I think I am going to root one way in a supposedly neutral game and wind up going the other. It does just happen.

Hate is a strong word and I think both Monmouth77 and FDD either don't use or qualify the term. I'll use dislike. I strongly dislike UConn. I don't care how often we've played them or whether they are considered a rival. Like Monmouth I was a senior who watched the 99 championship game in Cameron and exited the building in the mass exodus of shocked sadness. That one game is enough for me to dislike them for a LONG time. Throw in the 2004 FF loss and the time frame has been extended. Ollie replacing Calhoun has caused my feelings to soften on them slightly, but besides UNC I'd rather beat UConn than anyone else (UK, NCST, MD included).

When you became a fan and what you went through at what age certainly plays a big role. The younger fans probably don't feel the same bile with Michigan as those who were huge fans when the Fab Five rivalry sparked. After the Fab Five, they got us 3 times in a row from 1995 - 1997 including the Tractor Traylor dunk game at Cameron. I hated those Michigan teams. But, Tommy getting the head coaching job softened that hatred and while I still don't like them, I don't hate them anymore. Some day, young Duke fans will wonder what was the big deal about Maryland.

[Duvall]

Some day, young Duke fans will wonder what was the big deal about Maryland.

What's a Maryland?

[OldPhiKap]

What's a Maryland?

I think it is some sort of whining pyromaniac from Alaska.

[flyingdutchdevil]

http://espn.go.com/ncb/notebook/_/pa...218/daily-word

Quick summary: ESPN really likes this Duke team. They call us "better than UCONN at every position...except in a position to get arrested". Okay, I added that last part, but the first part remains true!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

But per your previous post it's OK to "hate" a team we've played hundreds of times for bragging rights and conference titles but never for a National Championship. Got it.

My point is that it's subjective. And I'll bet Coach K thought of Calhoun as a pretty formidable coaching rival -- someone who stood between him and 2 rings.

Anyway, Go Duke!

My two cents...

I used to hate UConn with the force of a thousand suns, but I have a hard time hating this current iteration. Ollie seems like a pretty stand up guy, and I was pleased to see him knock off Calipari last year. My hatred of UConn was based mostly on the players that they had when we met over and over, their totally sketchy and criminal ridden program, and Jim Calhoun's... everything.

To my knowledge, this is a pretty different program now. Sure, I hope we win, and I would savor a victory over UConn moreso than many other teams, but the days of them eliciting the same level of emotion from me that UNC, Maryland, Kentucky, et al are over.

Now, tonight's game could certainly spin that on a dime, so stay tuned.

Go Duke!

[Bluegrassdevil1]

To derive the concept that UConn is not a significant opponent to the Duke program due to a limited sample size of games, is profoundly absurd. UK fans dislike Duke due to one singular moment, that has compounded over time and competition. Raiders fans hate the Patriots because of a singular official ruling. Cubs fans hate the Marlins for one singular moment.

UConn has two big gold trophies in their lovely facility that could easily have gone to Duke. Big gold trophies (metaphoric or concrete) are the central purposes one strives at most human ventures, and any obstacle that repeats itself as opposition to collecting a big gold trophy is an important obstacle, even when compared with other opposition that occurs more frequently (Duke plays UNC Greensboro almost every year, but no realistic Duke fan views that program as an essential or noteworthy obstacle).

Not only would I include the 1990 NCAA game, along with 1999 and 2004, as important to the feelings of Duke fans, I would also include the following Duke/UConn games as important to the Duke basketball program proper:

November 1994 - Great Eight loss against UConn. Duke had the game in hand, Parks fouled out, things fell apart, Duke lost the game, and naturally, the 1994-1995 season was less than enjoyable, especially with UConn being the first of eighteen defeats. UConn had nothing to do with Coach K's heath, and the team's struggles, but they were the first of many difficult moments that season.

November 1999 - Championship game rematch in the Coaches vs. Cancer third place game. Duke narrowly lost to UConn, giving the Devils a three game losing streak (UConn '99 title game, Stanford, UConn rematch). The loss to UConn would be the 99-00 team's lone defeat until the St. John's game that ended the non-conference CIS streak, and the Maryland home loss that ended Duke's long unbeaten ACC streak. 1999 hurt for a myriad of reasons, but the CvC game really made one wonder if Calhoun-UConn truly had Duke's number.

November 2009 - Duke defeated UConn in the preseason NIT final, which was Duke's first victory over the Huskies in some time. Not only was the win over UConn for a big gold trophy, it was also Duke's first big win in a season which ended with a national championship.

UConn will never hold the surface level significance as UNC or Maryland, but in terms of critical events, UConn has been part of a great many memorable Duke moments.

UK fans currently view UConn with sentiments similar to Duke fans, and no Cat fan I know presently views the U of L rivalry as important to them, despite in being nationally recognized as a big rivalry, as the one with UConn, simply because UK has dominated U of L since 2009, whereas UConn can claim results very similar to what they have had against Duke:

1. UK's last two NCAA tournament losses have been to UConn.

2. UConn beat UK in the 2011 Final Four. Many rationale people believe their contest was truly the national championship game that season (just like Duke in 2004).

3. UConn beat a highly touted preseason UK team in the 2014 national championship game (just like Duke in 1999).

[Henderson]

What's a Maryland?

I think it is some sort of whining pyromaniac from Alaska.

Not ringing a bell. Use it in a sentence?

[Billy Dat]

UK fans currently view UConn with sentiments similar to Duke fans, and no Cat fan I know presently views the U of L rivalry as important to them, despite in being nationally recognized as a big rivalry, as the one with UConn, simply because UK has dominated U of L since 2009, whereas UConn can claim results very similar to what they have had against Duke:

1. UK's last two NCAA tournament losses have been to UConn.

2. UConn beat UK in the 2011 Final Four. Many rationale people believe their contest was truly the national championship game that season (just like Duke in 2004).

3. UConn beat a highly touted preseason UK team in the 2014 national championship game (just like Duke in 1999).

Wow, this UConn/UK rivalry was not really on my radar. That is fantastic. Great post, very informative.

[English]

My two cents...

I used to hate UConn with the force of a thousand suns, but I have a hard time hating this current iteration. Ollie seems like a pretty stand up guy, and I was pleased to see him knock off Calipari last year. My hatred of UConn was based mostly on the players that they had when we met over and over, their totally sketchy and criminal ridden program, and Jim Calhoun's... everything.

To my knowledge, this is a pretty different program now. Sure, I hope we win, and I would savor a victory over UConn moreso than many other teams, but the days of them eliciting the same level of emotion from me that UNC, Maryland, Kentucky, et al are over.

Now, tonight's game could certainly spin that on a dime, so stay tuned.

Go Duke!

It's really tough to hate them, the players especially, when they don't get enough food on their current scholly meal plans without getting paid, but are still expected to play at a high level. (see Napier, Shabazz--"Sometimes, there's hungry nights where I'm not able to eat, but I still gotta play up to my capabilities.") Sympathetic group of guys, wasting away on the court like that. Someone should talk to Kevin Ollie about changing the meal plan.

Here's hoping our guys offer them some triscuits after we lay another L on them in Izod.

[OldPhiKap]

Not ringing a bell. Use it in a sentence?

"Jed, I think you stepped in a pile of [University of] Maryland when you were walking through the field. Don't track it through the house."

[Billy Dat]

Luke Winn makes the case for Hack-a-Jah
http://www.si.com/college-basketball...ona-louisville

Jah is shooting 59% from the stripe over his last 133 games 33/598.

[Duvall]

It's really tough to hate them, the players especially, when they don't get enough food on their current scholly meal plans without getting paid, but are still expected to play at a high level. (see Napier, Shabazz--"Sometimes, there's hungry nights where I'm not able to eat, but I still gotta play up to my capabilities.") Sympathetic group of guys, wasting away on the court like that. Someone should talk to Kevin Ollie about changing the meal plan.

Here's hoping our guys offer them some triscuits after we lay another L on them in Izod.

Is there a food drive organized for tonight for the malnourished Husky players?

[Neals384]

sigh. you already stole the whalers from us, and the stanley cup that came with it....our state is left with NOTHING I tell you...even trinity college lost their squash streak. we might as well call up Queen Elizabeth II and ask to rejoin the UK....but maybe...just maybe we can reinvigorate the nutmeg state with a big win.

From wikipedia: "Connecticut received its nickname ("the Nutmeg State", "Nutmegger") from the legend that some unscrupulous Connecticut traders would whittle "nutmeg" out of wood, creating a "wooden nutmeg", a term which later came to mean any type of fraud."

This seems sooo fitting.

[Henderson]

"Jed, I think you stepped in a pile of [University of] Maryland when you were walking through the field. Don't track it through the house."

Ahh. I should have known there was a scatalogical element. I was guessing more like, "Dad, I know the car frame is still smoldering in the driveway and I have your jockey shorts on my head, but things got pretty maryland after some sport game thing last night."

[ChillinDuke]

Don't let these bamboozlers push you around with the "no ice" spiel. A little bit of a ice is delicious, especially when it's a nice easy night.

Sporks for you, OPK, and not for any of these "no icers"!!

Yeah, if Duke is into icing this year then so am I.

By the way, when's the next game?

- Chillin

[Duvall]

The Izod Center is really a dead arena. I am sure there will be plenty of both sets of fans in the house, and I am betting that the UConn fans will be a bit more boisterous as I tend to find the NYC-area Duke fans - of which I am a part - to be more wine and cheese than Cameron Crazie. I hope I am proven wrong.

Oh, it will basically be a UConn home game. Outside of Cameron, Duke fans just don't cheer.

[subzero02]

To derive the concept that UConn is not a significant opponent to the Duke program due to a limited sample size of games, is profoundly absurd. UK fans dislike Duke due to one singular moment, that has compounded over time and competition. Raiders fans hate the Patriots because of a singular official ruling. Cubs fans hate the Marlins for one singular moment.

UConn has two big gold trophies in their lovely facility that could easily have gone to Duke. Big gold trophies (metaphoric or concrete) are the central purposes one strives at most human ventures, and any obstacle that repeats itself as opposition to collecting a big gold trophy is an important obstacle, even when compared with other opposition that occurs more frequently (Duke plays UNC Greensboro almost every year, but no realistic Duke fan views that program as an essential or noteworthy obstacle).

Not only would I include the 1990 NCAA game, along with 1999 and 2004, as important to the feelings of Duke fans, I would also include the following Duke/UConn games as important to the Duke basketball program proper:

November 1994 - Great Eight loss against UConn. Duke had the game in hand, Parks fouled out, things fell apart, Duke lost the game, and naturally, the 1994-1995 season was less than enjoyable, especially with UConn being the first of eighteen defeats. UConn had nothing to do with Coach K's heath, and the team's struggles, but they were the first of many difficult moments that season.

November 1999 - Championship game rematch in the Coaches vs. Cancer third place game. Duke narrowly lost to UConn, giving the Devils a three game losing streak (UConn '99 title game, Stanford, UConn rematch). The loss to UConn would be the 99-00 team's lone defeat until the St. John's game that ended the non-conference CIS streak, and the Maryland home loss that ended Duke's long unbeaten ACC streak. 1999 hurt for a myriad of reasons, but the CvC game really made one wonder if Calhoun-UConn truly had Duke's number.

November 2009 - Duke defeated UConn in the preseason NIT final, which was Duke's first victory over the Huskies in some time. Not only was the win over UConn for a big gold trophy, it was also Duke's first big win in a season which ended with a national championship.

UConn will never hold the surface level significance as UNC or Maryland, but in terms of critical events, UConn has been part of a great many memorable Duke moments.

UK fans currently view UConn with sentiments similar to Duke fans, and no Cat fan I know presently views the U of L rivalry as important to them, despite in being nationally recognized as a big rivalry, as the one with UConn, simply because UK has dominated U of L since 2009, whereas UConn can claim results very similar to what they have had against Duke:

1. UK's last two NCAA tournament losses have been to UConn.

2. UConn beat UK in the 2011 Final Four. Many rationale people believe their contest was truly the national championship game that season (just like Duke in 2004).

3. UConn beat a highly touted preseason UK team in the 2014 national championship game (just like Duke in 1999).

Great rundown... I have an intense burning hatred for UCONN that will only die once I do. I watched the 99 championship in Cameron on the big screen as a freshman. The case of beer my friends and I hid in the bushes outside to celebrate our certain victory wasn't nearly enough to numb the pain. Watching Jwill and Dunleavy lose to UCONN the next year was tough; especially coming on the heels of the Stanford. The loss to UCONN in 2004 was a slow trainwreck... I remember Calhoun calling a timeout after Deng capped a nice run with an uncontested layup and thinking "we're going to win this game." Randolph had a great first half and Okafor was saddled with foul trouble but it wasn't meant to be. (If only that Redick 3 pointer from the top of the key had fallen, things might have been different... Or if Deng's ill-advised 3 pointer in the final 5 minutes had fallen). So much pain caused by one school... I hope we beat them by 40 tonight.

[77devil]

The Izod Center is really a dead arena. I am sure there will be plenty of both sets of fans in the house, and I am betting that the UConn fans will be a bit more boisterous as I tend to find the NYC-area Duke fans - of which I am a part - to be more wine and cheese than Cameron Crazie. I hope I am proven wrong.

I'm not sure what to expect with an 8 PM start time on a Thursday night. The December game at MSG or Cameron North is usually on the weekend with an alumni reception beforehand. It draws many people from well beyond NYC who may not make the trip tonight. I'm afraid our turnout will be less than usual.

Oh, it will basically be a UConn home game. Outside of Cameron, Duke fans just don't cheer.

Well, it's not called Cameron North for nothing. I've been to almost all of the Duke games in the Meadowlands over the last 15 years and the Blue Devil fans have been plenty loud.