MBB: Duke 75, Elon 62 Post-Game Thread

[OldPhiKap]

Post-exam game, no surprises.

Eddy's play at the end was pure punk, especially ring to body Sheed up afterwards. Too bad, thought Elon otherwise played with poise and did not give up.

Next play.

[Dukehky]

When the final buzzer sounded, Justise was close on the court to Eddy. Eddy reached out a hand to Justise, who ignored it and walked away. I didn't see whether or not the snubs continued during the post-game handshake lineup.

Did Justise 100% see Eddy reach out to shake his hand?

I like a little edge, so this doesn't bother me in the least, especially if the team thinks that Eddy was being dirty (or dirty-ish) the whole game.

[OldPhiKap]

Did Justise 100% see Eddy reach out to shake his hand?

I like a little edge, so this doesn't bother me in the least, especially if the team thinks that Eddy was being dirty (or dirty-ish) the whole game.

Yeah, it looked like a blow-off to me. And I am ok with it.

Not sure what if anything happened in the shake line.

[slower]

Did Justise 100% see Eddy reach out to shake his hand?

I like a little edge, so this doesn't bother me in the least, especially if the team thinks that Eddy was being dirty (or dirty-ish) the whole game.

I was actually wishing that Tyler Thornton had been playing, because Eddy might have been the recipient of at least one hard foul. He certainly deserved it.

[Dukehky]

I was actually wishing that Tyler Thornton had been playing, because Eddy might have been the recipient of at least one hard foul. He certainly deserved it.

2 words for those that need a hard foul. Marshall Plumlee. He is ginormous and he is such a spaz that if he thumps down on someone really hard, refs are just going to be like, oh that was an accident, he can't control himself. Boom no flagrant and a butt hole on the other team with a bump on his noggin.

Also, with Tyus and Senior Quinn on this team, I will never wish for Tyler Thornton on the court. Maybe on the bench at some point in the future!!!

[uh_no]

Turnovers were a problem, too (17 for the game).

Just seemed to be overall lack of focus.

looked like a team that hadn't really played in 2 weeks. sloppy turnovers, missed rotations on D...i'm not too worried, but i have to give props to Olympic fan

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.c...024#post763024

who i disagreed with

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.c...138#post763138

and i wholly admit that the game was close, despite my thoughts.

I contend that it was much more duke sloppiness than any thing elon did particularly well...they didn't put huge pressure on us, yet we had turnovers...good on them for making the wide open layups we gave them several times, i guess.

anyway...shake the rust off...uconn thursday (and sorry guys...i'm wearing a huskies shirt...despite thinking duke ought to win)

[slower]

Also, with Tyus and Senior Quinn on this team, I will never wish for Tyler Thornton on the court. Maybe on the bench at some point in the future!!!

I'm not suggesting that I'd PREFER Tyler to Tyus or Quinn. I'm suggesting that Tyler would have taken care of things properly.

[Furniture]

2 words for those that need a hard foul. Marshall Plumlee. He is ginormous and he is such a spaz that if he thumps down on someone really hard, refs are just going to be like, oh that was an accident, he can't control himself. Boom no flagrant and a butt hole on the other team with a bump on his noggin.

Also, with Tyus and Senior Quinn on this team, I will never wish for Tyler Thornton on the court. Maybe on the bench at some point in the future!!!

Referring to someone as a spaz is just not a nice thing all round.

[gurufrisbee]

Eddy was horrible. I hope whatever craphole league Elon is in looks at the tape of him tonight and suspends him. Pulling down an opposing player is dangerous and unacceptable. Sheed would have been in the right to deck him for that cheap move alone. His thuggish play the rest of the night up to and including with just seconds left would totally justify no one ever shaking his loser hand the rest of the season. I haven't seen a player that horrible since Hansborough.

[brlftz]

2 words for those that need a hard foul. Marshall Plumlee. He is ginormous and he is such a spaz that if he thumps down on someone really hard, refs are just going to be like, oh that was an accident, he can't control himself. Boom no flagrant and a butt hole on the other team with a bump on his noggin.

I don't know, it takes some real skill to foul hard in a way that leaves no doubt in your opponent's mind that you were sending a message, yet doesn't give the official cause to toss you. Thornton was a master at it. If it really does look like an accident, then no message is received, and what's the point?

Thornton has never gotten enough love.

[Billy Dat]

Granted he was a man among boys, but 25 and 20 is an epic performance that deserves more kudos. Yes, we didn't play well but Jah was literally huge. Historic performance.

The rest? I shrug it off. As many are saying, the fact that K is so angry shows he thinks this team is potentially great. This assures we'll be ready Thursday (psyched that I will be indahouse).

By the way, our squad has EPIC facial hair going right now. It may be the greatest assemblage ever.

[Atldukie79]

Eddy was horrible. I hope whatever craphole league Elon is in looks at the tape of him tonight and suspends him. Pulling down an opposing player is dangerous and unacceptable. Sheed would have been in the right to deck him for that cheap move alone. His thuggish play the rest of the night up to and including with just seconds left would totally justify no one ever shaking his loser hand the rest of the season. I haven't seen a player that horrible since Hansborough.

Eddy's play on Suli was indeed a punk play. it wasn't a quick hit, but an elbow, a grab, and a chance to drag Suli down and potentially get into his knees. Watching Suli from the end line in real time leads me to believe he is making a rational and reasonable play to protect himself. I wonder why the move Eddy made cannot be considered a flagrant foul. Indeed it wasn't to the head...but of the two, Eddy's was deliberant while Suli's was a reaction.

[subzero02]

I am looking forward to watching the archived game on espn... The free throw percentage is always a concern. If Okafor and Winslow can hit ft's at a 65 percent or higher clip we should be ok... Still the only recent time in which free throw issues with a player blatantly derailed a season was 2002.

[Kedsy]

Free throws were bad.

Well, the real problem with our free throws is who took them. For the season before this game, Jahlil has made 52% of his free throws, Amile has made 59%, and Justise has made 60%. Those three guys took 18 of our 27 free throws tonight, and made just 39% of those free throws. And while 39% is worse than 52% or 59% or 60%, it's sort of in the same ball park (to be consistent with season averages, those three would have had to collectively have made three (3) more free throws). Our other free throw shooters made 78% of their free throws, which is just a shade under their season average-to-date of 80.6%.

After losing depth at our position of greatest need, these 9 guys really need to rally and focus on getting much better together.

Yeah? What position of greatest need is that? We have Marshall to back up C, Justise to back up PF, and Rasheed/Matt to back up SF. Semi was clearly behind all those other guys and wasn't going to play a lot even if we ran into injury or foul trouble at any of those three positions. I like Semi, but for this season we didn't lose meaningful depth anywhere.

I watched Kentucky a few days ago thrash UNC, and this Duke team today would not have been able to play with UK either.

"[T]his Duke team today" was playing Elon. It would have looked a lot different if Duke was playing Kentucky. I have no idea how well we'd look against UK if we played tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure our games against teams like Elon would not give me any meaningful information along those lines.

[Wander]

Well, the real problem with our free throws is who took them. For the season before this game, Jahlil has made 52% of his free throws, Amile has made 59%, and Justise has made 60%. Those three guys took 18 of our 27 free throws tonight, and made just 39% of those free throws. And while 39% is worse than 52% or 59% or 60%, it's sort of in the same ball park (to be consistent with season averages, those three would have had to collectively have made three (3) more free throws). Our other free throw shooters made 78% of their free throws, which is just a shade under their season average-to-date of 80.6%.

Guess what? Jahlil, Amile, and Justice are going to be shooting over half of our free throws in meaningful games this season.

[Kedsy]

Guess what? Jahlil, Amile, and Justice are going to be shooting over half of our free throws in meaningful games this season.

Could be. In that case, guess what? Get used to those three guys hitting fewer than 60% of their free throws. And don't say "our free throws were bad" when they do (and I know it wasn't you who said that originally).

Like I said in my earlier post, the three of them were within three free made throws of their average. The rest of the team was pretty much right on their average. So we shot a bit below average from the line but about what we should expect. If those three guys continue to take two-thirds of our free throws, it's unlikely we'll get a lot better from the line. No reason to point out how bad we were if our players shot close to their average.

[Wander]

Could be. In that case, guess what? Get used to those three guys hitting fewer than 60% of their free throws. And don't say "our free throws were bad" when they do (and I know it wasn't you who said that originally).

Like I said in my earlier post, the three of them were within three free made throws of their average. The rest of the team was pretty much right on their average. So we shot a bit below average from the line but about what we should expect. If those three guys continue to take two-thirds of our free throws, it's unlikely we'll get a lot better from the line. No reason to point out how bad we were if our players shot close to their average.

I sort of agree in that I don't find free throw shooting percentage to be a particularly interesting thing to talk about, but as far as I can tell it's one of the very few weaknesses of our team, so it seems a bit silly to just say nobody should mention it for the rest of the season.

[JohnJ]

Well, the real problem with our free throws is who took them. For the season before this game, Jahlil has made 52% of his free throws, Amile has made 59%, and Justise has made 60%. Those three guys took 18 of our 27 free throws tonight, and made just 39% of those free throws. And while 39% is worse than 52% or 59% or 60%, it's sort of in the same ball park (to be consistent with season averages, those three would have had to collectively have made three (3) more free throws).

Those three together shoot 57.5% together on the season. So 39% is not in the same ball park as 57%. Also all three together made a total of 7 FT tonight. To add another 3 made FT's increases the total by almost 50%. They had an off night compared to normal.

[Kedsy]

Those three together shoot 57.5% together on the season. So 39% is not in the same ball park as 57%. Also all three together made a total of 7 FT tonight. To add another 3 made FT's increases the total by almost 50%. They had an off night compared to normal.

Well, like I said, the real issue is that those three went to line more than usual. In our first 8 games, Jahlil, Amile, and Justise combined to take 39% of Duke's free throws. Against Elon, those three guys took 67% of our free throws. If they'd kept with their averages, they'd have made 6 out of 11 free throws, instead of 7 out of 18. That's a difference of one point. But even if they'd made 10 of 18, so what? We would have won by 16 instead of 13. It's not a big enough deal to single out as an abnormally bad night. What's more significant is how many free throws our three bad FT shooters (really four bad FT shooters if you add Matt Jones to that group) take compared to the rest of our players (who are good FT shooters).

Ultimately, as Wander sort of pointed out, when four of our eight rotation players combine to make fewer than 60% of their free throws, the team isn't going to make a high percentage of its free throws overall. Sure, it's a team weakness, but it's unlikely to get significantly better over the course of the season, so we kind of just have to accept it. If in a particular game we're within a few made FTs of normal, what's the value in pointing out we didn't shoot FTs well, when we're almost never going to shoot them well?

[JohnJ]

I don't disagree that it did not matter in this game.