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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    1) Coach K retires. The Snuggle bear takes over as head coach.

    2) Duke goes on a 120 game losing streak.
    You do realize there already exists a sports franchise with a long history of losing and a Snuggle Bear as its mascot, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henderson View Post
    Some of you quants must have some stats better or more recent than the ones I posted above showing that, on balance, people love Duke basketball.
    Here's the same poll you linked to but a year newer (2014).
    Last edited by hurleyfor3; 12-15-2014 at 01:44 PM. Reason: fix links

  2. #22
    Anyway, separate post, back to the question. The best way to deal with "Duke Hate" is to ignore it. We need to take after Yankees fans, who work to cultivate hatred from other fanbases.

    The funniest Duke hate I've received has been from Princeton alumni. Seriously, you got into Princeton. We were your safety school 23 years ago and you still hate us? That's awesome.

  3. #23
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    What if the current Duke team and NBA alumni trained as Special Ops and the influential non-playing team alums trained as diplomats and, led by K, managed to definitively defeat ISIL, broker a lasting Isreali/Palestine peace, solve the Syrian civil war and the various civil wars in Africa and somehow miraculously united Congress leading to the next American Golden Age?

    It just wouldn't matter, because all of the above would be attributed to a charge call we got with 7 minutes left that surely decided the battle.

    Embrace the Hate, it keeps us warm.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    What if the current Duke team and NBA alumni trained as Special Ops and the influential non-playing team alums trained as diplomats and, led by K, managed to definitively defeat ISIL, broker a lasting Isreali/Palestine peace, solve the Syrian civil war and the various civil wars in Africa and somehow miraculously united Congress leading to the next American Golden Age?

    It just wouldn't matter, because all of the above would be attributed to a charge call we got with 7 minutes left that surely decided the battle.

    Embrace the Hate, it keeps us warm.
    Sorry, can't spork you. But you absolutely deserve all the sporks you can get for this post.

    NOTE: you forgot curing Ebola
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  5. #25
    alteran is offline All-American, Honorable Mention
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henderson View Post
    So you were at a bar. Then you went hiking. Got some crap. Only a Duke fan would ever experience that. Got it..
    Thanks for the sarcasm, denigration, and misconstruing of my statements. And to think I got you nothing for the holiday season.

    I see how you ignored my point about UNC representation in national (and, of course, local) media. It must be that point was too insignificant to argue with. More winning argumentation for you, I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by Henderson View Post
    But anecdotes about rivals making crude remarks doesn't for me demonstrate that Duke is hated any more than rivals or winners are "hated" generally.
    Good point. I agree that it doesn't. IN AND OF ITSELF.

    But throw in a personal lifetime of such anecdotes, the ridiculous ref hate conspiracy thing Duke dealt with for years, a string of hate articles in the national press (not just local), and it sure smells like a pattern. Don't believe me, believe google. Feel free to to change the search terms to other universities and see if you get as prominent a series of national press playing to the Duke hate.

    No, go ahead and google it. We'll wait.

    The part where the national media talked for years about Duke getting all the calls is, AFAIK, unique. I've never seen the national media treat a program like that.

    The hate thing seems to have died down a bit over the years. It's still there, but it isn't as bad as it once was-- in fact, it's downright tolerable these days. Doesn't mean it's gone away entirely.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henderson View Post
    So you were at a bar. Then you went hiking. Got some crap. Only a Duke fan would ever experience that. Got it.

    If this conversation is about whether rivals express hate, I won't disagree. Go to Oregon or Kansas or Oklahoma or Texas and live it. It's what we do.

    But anecdotes about rivals making crude remarks doesn't for me demonstrate that Duke is hated any more than rivals or winners are "hated" generally.

    Some of you quants must have some stats better or more recent than the ones I posted above showing that, on balance, people love Duke basketball.
    I'm not sure how to read your "Go [elsewhere] and live it" sentence, but I will say with confidence that people hate Duke here in Texas, well out of proportion to how much they care about other non-local basketball powers. My personal opinion is that it is the perceived arrogance of K and a long list of not-easy-to-love players.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by alteran View Post
    Thanks for the sarcasm, denigration, and misconstruing of my statements. And to think I got you nothing for the holiday season.

    I see how you ignored my point about UNC representation in national (and, of course, local) media. It must be that point was too insignificant to argue with. More winning argumentation for you, I guess.

    Good point. I agree that it doesn't. IN AND OF ITSELF.

    But throw in a personal lifetime of such anecdotes, the ridiculous ref hate conspiracy thing Duke dealt with for years, a string of hate articles in the national press (not just local), and it sure smells like a pattern. Don't believe me, believe google. Feel free to to change the search terms to other universities and see if you get as prominent a series of national press playing to the Duke hate.

    No, go ahead and google it. We'll wait.

    The part where the national media talked for years about Duke getting all the calls is, AFAIK, unique. I've never seen the national media treat a program like that.

    The hate thing seems to have died down a bit over the years. It's still there, but it isn't as bad as it once was-- in fact, it's downright tolerable these days. Doesn't mean it's gone away entirely.
    Well now, don't let yout patriotism bar you from providing a like minded soul with a Google reference you know about. I trust the search leads to statistical data rather than the usual blather from rivals. All teams suffer that if they are successful. Most whine. Some do not.

    So where are the Google searches that lead me to statisics documenting Duke hate? I'm open. I've thrown out some very limited stats that point a different direction. Not perfect so update, trump, or improve.

    My point: People "hate" winners, rivals, and the guy who beat them. Duke checks boxes for a lot of people on those metrics. Any sense of Duke excetionalism in that regard is vanity.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinDevil View Post
    I'm not sure how to read your "Go [elsewhere] and live it" sentence, but I will say with confidence that people hate Duke here in Texas, well out of proportion to how much they care about other non-local basketball powers. My personal opinion is that it is the perceived arrogance of K and a long list of not-easy-to-love players.
    Yeah. But then, I really enjoyed sitting in a decent size Duke alumni section with our Alumni at a Houston sports bar watching JJ torch Texas for 42 in a total beat down. At the very beginning, the rest of fans in the sports bar were cheering when UT made a basket, and then went totally silent the rest of the game as we just destroyed them. As Mel Brooks would say: "It's good to be the King."

    Let 'um hate.

    (Besides, the next day, the Texas fans have never even heard of Duke------or there even being a basketball program at UT.)

    ricks

  9. #29
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    Fix Duke Hate!

    We pay Billy Packer and pair him with Len Elmore. All they have to do is start the "Kentucky get's all the calls" in every game. Even the games the Wildcats are not playing in. These two guys got this whole Duke hate started in the first place. We need a team to take Duke's place and Kentucky is the best one available. I would have said UNC, but they're not that good right now. GoDuke!

  10. #30
    So... what I have learned from this thread is that not only are we hated, we are competitive about precisely how much hate we have personally experienced?

    For those who say that prolonged losing would end the hate, I'm not so sure. Growing up in Charlotte in the 1980's, I was always the only Duke fan in the room. And that's back when Duke "couldn't win the big one," and Lord Smith of Dean ruled the state.

    Though, that's rival hate. My UNC fanatic neighbor Marty isn't going to stop hating Duke no matter what happens with the progra, and I wouldn't expect him to. I don't think winning or losing have much effect on that.

    To my mind, what we are discussing here is the hate of the general population. Having lived in places all over the US (Vermont, Seattle, California) I have to admit I encountered much more indifference than hate. Or rather, just the peripheral dislike of people who don't really follow college basketball. I acknowledge that it might have been different if I spent lots of time in Indiana, Kentucky, Kansas, or other basketball-mad areas.

    So, in my experience, it's more the constant whining and buzzing of commentators or the big sports media talking about Duke getting calls, or being giddy about an upset or near-upset that bothers me regularly. And that is unlike to change as long as Coach K wins 1,000 games, Duke gets top recruits, and we keep winning games. So, I choose to embrace it.

  11. #31
    alteran is offline All-American, Honorable Mention
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henderson View Post
    Well now, don't let yout patriotism bar you from providing a like minded soul with a Google reference you know about. I trust the search leads to statistical data rather than the usual blather from rivals.
    Oh, I did include a link that included stuff that wasn't "the usual blather from rivals." Did I need to click that link for you as well? Oh, I did? Fair enough.

    What it shows is national media piling on Duke, over and over. CNN, Slate, USAToday, that kind of thing. Similar searches of other universities do NOT turn up such sources, rather they turn up articles from fan websites. And nowhere near as many. When they do show national articles, they tend to be ones about ... wait for it... hating Duke!

    I thought you'd be eager to show me counter-examples since your case is apparently so airtight that you can afford to be insulting about it, but I only received the usual blather. I'm going to take that as a, "you're right, alteran, I couldn't find much."

    Now, is that double-blind empirical proof? Nope. But you know you haven't shown anything better to make your case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henderson View Post
    So where are the Google searches that lead me to statisics documenting Duke hate? I'm open. I've thrown out some very limited stats that point a different direction. Not perfect so update, trump, or improve.
    You refer to your massive data dump of one survey? It says that Duke has the highest approval rating among college bball programs. That would be an excellent survey if we were debating which programs were the most popular.

    Now, in a world where argumentative
    fallacies carried the day, this would also be a great link disproving Duke hate. Unfortunately for you, presence of one thing is not proof of the absence of the converse. I refer you to basic argumentative fallacies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henderson View Post
    My point: People "hate" winners, rivals, and the guy who beat them. Duke checks boxes for a lot of people on those metrics. Any sense of Duke excetionalism in that regard is vanity.
    Oh, THAT'S your point. Well, rest easy knowing no one is disputing that winning creates animosity.

    What we are referring to is something above and beyond that normal level of rivalry hate. Frankly, I don't think such a thing is provable using statistical methods. If it were, I think funding would be a bit of a problem.

    So, when you publish your double-blind statistical analysis showing that Duke is hated no more than anyone else that wins, well, I'll gladly concede the point. In the meantime, I'll just have to trust my lying eyes, the plethora a national media articles documenting and displaying Duke hate, and, yes, the ridiculous anecdotal stuff I've come across over the years.

  12. #32
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    Stay Dominant

    I am not sure whether the podcast is looking for a genuine suggestion here, or whether this is more or less a joke, but I have noticed something of a correlation between the volume of "hate" and the quality of talent and team play.

    And I think that's because the average jaded opposing fan (or even the committed "hater") feels especially enraged when they tune into ESPN broadcast after ESPN broadcast and hear a constant stream of positive Duke accolades and then see a team on the floor that does not quite match the rhetoric. I feel like peak-Duke hate coincided with a recent period when we played slightly below Duke's lofty expectations for a few years (roughly 2006-2009), lost to lower seeded teams in the Tournament every year, had somewhat less then the very best elite talent, and lost a few games where we were physically outclassed (v. LSU in '06, v. WVU in '08, v. Villanova in '09).

    Duke hate flows in these scenarios because the favorite caricatures of the haters -- private school wimps/jerks/nerds who lack elite athleticism but somehow get all the praise -- feel like they have more substance. "All we can do is shoot threes and take charges." "The refs have to bail us out on defense b/c we can't hang with the superior athletes on the other team." "We are overrated based on reputation," etc.

    But when we have dominant first rate talent that is clicking, these sorts of tropes just fall flat. I am sure those most fevered Carolina fans and other assorted haters are cooking up some kind of conspiracy theory or another about why Duke is super-unlikeable and unfairly praised this year, but if we keep playing a dominant brand of basketball, the hate will be quiet(er).

    So I guess I'd say, just win baby!

  13. #33
    There are people you will never change. They will hate Duke until the day they die. Many of them have good reason (Kentucky fans vs. Laettner, UNC fans vs. Austin Rivers or Gerald Henderson, for example), others of them are just mean (MD fans in College Park).

    I think it is interesting to look at why teams like San Antonio or Michigan State are not hated, but teams like the Heat or the Yankees are. America loves an underdog, and hates the favorite. It is ingrained in our culture to want the little guy to succeed. San Antonio, despite having some sustained success and numerous titles, is still the underdog to LeBron James and the Miami Heat/Cleveland Cavaliers. Michigan State was/is as well. They are seen as blue collar and everyman. Duke was the underdog up till 1991 when they knocked off UNLV. At that time, UNC was the big bad team everyone in NC hated and wanted to see fail.

    Secondly, after the Underdog wins big, we expect them to fade and allow the next Cinderella story to manifest itself. Certainly most people in the US outside of New England were pulling for the Giants when they played the undefeated Patriots in the Super Bowl a few years ago. Everyone except Yankee fans like it when they flame out. And most fans probably pulled for Kentucky in 1992 to knock us off our throne. We had our time in the sun, and it was time for a new underdog. Failing to go away leads to resentment.

    For many years I think Duke just ignored it, and it got way out of hand. Coach K finally realized that arguing about it wasn't going to change things, so he set out to change the PR around the team. I think Duke Blue Planet has been a great way to show a personable side to the basketball players. It has also helped that outside of Austin Rivers, we really haven't had a player that drew attention to himself during a game since JJ Redick. It is hard to hate a guy like Marshall Plumlee when you watch his goofy videos.

    You do need to have a thick skin. People will give you crap about the team you like if they dislike said team. Don't take offense to it; just smile and tip your cap. Maybe add a smug remark as a counter punch. You're probably not going to change their mind by arguing with them, so don't try. But getting offended because someone says "Duke Sucks" is a bit too thin skinned IMO.
    "There can BE only one."

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by alteran View Post
    Oh, I did include a link that included stuff that wasn't "the usual blather from rivals." Did I need to click that link for you as well? Oh, I did? Fair enough.

    What it shows is national media piling on Duke, over and over. CNN, Slate, USAToday, that kind of thing. Similar searches of other universities do NOT turn up such sources, rather they turn up articles from fan websites. And nowhere near as many. When they do show national articles, they tend to be ones about ... wait for it... hating Duke!

    I thought you'd be eager to show me counter-examples since your case is apparently so airtight that you can afford to be insulting about it, but I only received the usual blather. I'm going to take that as a, "you're right, alteran, I couldn't find much."

    Now, is that double-blind empirical proof? Nope. But you know you haven't shown anything better to make your case.



    You refer to your massive data dump of one survey? It says that Duke has the highest approval rating among college bball programs. That would be an excellent survey if we were debating which programs were the most popular.

    Now, in a world where argumentative
    fallacies carried the day, this would also be a great link disproving Duke hate. Unfortunately for you, presence of one thing is not proof of the absence of the converse. I refer you to basic argumentative fallacies.



    Oh, THAT'S your point. Well, rest easy knowing no one is disputing that winning creates animosity.

    What we are referring to is something above and beyond that normal level of rivalry hate. Frankly, I don't think such a thing is provable using statistical methods. If it were, I think funding would be a bit of a problem.

    So, when you publish your double-blind statistical analysis showing that Duke is hated no more than anyone else that wins, well, I'll gladly concede the point. In the meantime, I'll just have to trust my lying eyes, the plethora a national media articles documenting and displaying Duke hate, and, yes, the ridiculous anecdotal stuff I've come across over the years.
    Whoa whoa. A bit excited? We're just having a bit of fun.

    Try Googling "I hate puppies" and tell me there isn't a world of puppy haters who need to be analyzed. Or ask at the local pub. Or wherever your science takes you.

  15. #35
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    The Duke hatred is truly completely jealousy of their success and/or stupidity. The only ways to counter that are Duke being unsuccessful (not interested) or the haters becoming smarter and more reasonable and honest (not likely).

  16. #36
    No more good white players!!!! Duh. Most die hard college basketball fans are white dudes. Psychologically there is a sense of jealousy that arises when people who look like you do things you wish you could do way better than you and there are no blatant physical differences to account for that superiority.

    We should also stop doing close ups of the student section on TV. As a group the crazies are cool most of the time (they're even better when they get mean and clever), but when you do close ups and see the individuals that make up the group (not all of us, I was there too, I think I'm cool) there aren't a whole lot of people who you would think would be fun at a party.

    Also, why would I want to stop the hate? I love and cherish it. It'll put hair on your chest. Sorry ladies, happens to you too. bust out the wax.
    Whatever the hell "it" is, Jabari found it.

    -Roy "Ole Huck" Williams

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehky View Post
    No more good white players!!!! Duh. Most die hard college basketball fans are white dudes. Psychologically there is a sense of jealousy that arises when people who look like you do things you wish you could do way better than you and there are no blatant physical differences to account for that superiority.

    We should also stop doing close ups of the student section on TV. As a group the crazies are cool most of the time (they're even better when they get mean and clever), but when you do close ups and see the individuals that make up the group (not all of us, I was there too, I think I'm cool) there aren't a whole lot of people who you would think would be fun at a party.

    Also, why would I want to stop the hate? I love and cherish it. It'll put hair on your chest. Sorry ladies, happens to you too. bust out the wax.
    This depends A LOT on where you are.

  18. #38
    Sounds like a super dumb thread/podcast topic to me. Any time spent gas-bagging about hatred towards Duke is only going to make you guys look pathetic.

    Try coming up with something else.
    Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.'

  19. #39
    alteran is offline All-American, Honorable Mention
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henderson View Post
    Whoa whoa. A bit excited? We're just having a bit of fun.

    Try Googling "I hate puppies" and tell me there isn't a world of puppy haters who need to be analyzed. Or ask at the local pub. Or wherever your science takes you.
    Cute. And condescending. It suits you.

    Again, you really haven't made any points-- or defended your own. You just fire cheap shots and expect someone else to find you some sort of peer-reviewed study to support opinion. Which, from what I can tell, is what you think science is.

    To summarize: your survey proves nothing. Your complete lack of ... whatever you think science is... doesn't really beat my lack of same.

    And since you think making people hunt things down on the internet is good fun, it should be no problem for you to find some articles from national publications documenting as much hate at some other universality as I can find targeted at Duke. The ones against Duke are not very hard to find.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    Sounds like a super dumb thread/podcast topic to me. Any time spent gas-bagging about hatred towards Duke is only going to make you guys look pathetic.

    Try coming up with something else.
    I disagree. It's actually not a bad topic, but most people on DBR are ill-equipped to answer it. The fact of the matter is that for every few of you who truly believe that you rise above the hatred, there are so many more of you that constantly remind us all of our collective sensitivity.

    Duke hatred is real. I don't think that the people who hate Duke most are so consumed by the hate that they can think of nothing else. It's more like a hobby. Duke hatred differs from general rival hatred because it's national. And it differs from, say, Notre Dame national hatred* because it extends beyond sports: people hate the school and anyone affiliated with it. We could build a separate thread (not recommended, but we could) about all the real and imagined factors that got us to this point.

    I've commented on many past threads that the best way to address Duke hate is to dilute it with more hate. (Love doesn't work.) There needs to be a Truth About Carolina media movement, and it needs Duke involvement. It's unclear to me why NC State and other outsiders are doing our dirty work.

    Until then, I think the proper approach is to ask the offender a one-word question: "Why?" Act genuinely curious why this person hates Duke so much, like they're the first dissenter you've ever encountered. Anticipate their answers. Say things like this:

    "Yeah, Duke is in the mix every year. So is Arizona. Lots of programs are. But what's great about college basketball is that anyone can win the tournament, because it isn't pre-ordained. Except for Connecticut. I don't know how those bastards keep winning titles."

    "Of course people hate Coach K. He's been around forever. People felt the same way about Dean Smith before he retired."

    "Didn't JJ Redick graduate, like, 8 years ago?"

    "Oh, I like this idea! Let's think of all the butt-ugly guards that have ever played college ball. I'll start, and we'll alternate. Steve Blake..."

    "The Crazies? Hey, if they want to spend their time hanging out with each other in tents and painting their faces and jumping around, be my guest. Better them than me."


    Most importantly, never sound passionate about the subject. Then the conversation goes from "Should Duke be hated?" to "Why have I wasted so much of my life being angry about this?" If they're a fan of another ACC team, then they have a legitimate gripe, and that's fine. But my guess is that they've decided to hate Duke because it's fashionable, and for no real reason that is personal to them.

    * For those of you wondering about the causal relationship between winning and hatred, look at Notre Dame football. They were irrelevant for a while, but they didn't suddenly become likable. On that national stage, hatred just became fatigue, which isn't that much better.

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