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Thread: JJ's Hand

  1. #1
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    JJ's Hand

    Anybody have more info on JJ's broken hand? I saw the link on DBR and the brief article in the Orlando paper.

    What type of break? What bone is broken? How did it happen? They say he'll be ready by training camp at the end of the month, that seems pretty quick for a broken bone to heal.

  2. #2
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    Wow, did not see this yet. I hope he makes a full recovery in time to get the season rolling.

    I think he'll get a MUCH, MUCH better shot this season now that Brian "The F'n Idiot" Hill is gone. What a jerk he was. JJ, had be been given the chance to really get a feel for his NBA game and improve with more playing time, could really have been a major help for Orlando in the post season. He's already better than Steve Kerr ever was, and look how much Kerr did for Chicago in the '90s. A LOT. JJ got screwed for sure.
    "Duke is a once in a lifetime opportunity and something you don't pass up on." -Amile Jefferson

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cameron View Post
    ... JJ, had be been given the chance to really get a feel for his NBA game and improve with more playing time, could really have been a major help for Orlando in the post season. He's already better than Steve Kerr ever was, and look how much Kerr did for Chicago in the '90s. A LOT. ...
    Please help me understand what you're saying here! I love JJ as much as the next guy, but JJ has yet to really contribute in a meaningful way to a championship team, unlike Kerr. Also, if you think JJ is a better shooter, go back and look at Kerr's numbers - they're kind of unreal - especially at the collegiate level.

    Now, if you're saying the JJ has more potential to be an NBA star, I won't quibble with you a bit. JJ is bigger and faster and has a greater variety of scoring weapons in his arsenal than Kerr did. But as of now, Kerr has by far the better NBA career, and I'd argue that Kerr is the better stand-still shooter.
    JBDuke

    Andre Dawkins: “People ask me if I can still shoot, and I ask them if they can still breathe. That’s kind of the same thing.”

  4. #4
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    I agree. JJ, although one of my favorite college players, has yet to earn the right even to be in the same conversation with Steve Kerr as a pro.

  5. #5
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    Now, if you're saying the JJ has more potential to be an NBA star, I won't quibble with you a bit. JJ is bigger and faster and has a greater variety of scoring weapons in his arsenal than Kerr did.
    That is exactly what I meant. I should have been more clear on that, I guess. JJ has a much better all-around game IMO than Kerr ever did, even at this early stage in his career. JJ is much more athletic, can create a shot for himself much better, can hit shots of much higher difficulty--runners, fadeaways, 26-footers, leaners, turning on a dime with two or three guys in his face--and is just as good, if not better, a stand still shooter than Steve Kerr. Remember, Kerr's 50 percent three-point shooting percentages were loudly influenced by the likes of Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. Their presences out on the floor let Kerr stand and shoot freely all day long most times.

    Once JJ is given his rightful shot, I think mapei's statement will prove to be the opposite. I think Steve Kerr won't be in the same discussion as Redick. He has all the tools; it's just a matter of time...

    Also, if you think JJ is a better shooter, go back and look at Kerr's numbers - they're kind of unreal - especially at the collegiate level.
    At the college level, JJ routinely took some of the most difficult shots of any player I have ever seen at the college level. When you really go back and look at the tapes, it is amazing that JJ was able to maintain his 26.8 scoring average as a senior. That year was really hell for him in terms of opposing defenses. He was a marked man every single night, and he really took a beating. The shots he took and made were unreal though--26 footers with guys running at him, turning, stopping, and popping on a dime from 22', runners, floaters, etc. He rarely had wide open looks. And I think that just attests that much more to how great a shooter JJ really was.

    Now Steve Kerr probably had defenses swarming on him as well, but he also had the aid of a National Player of the Year in his backcourt, Sean Elliot, who took a lot of the pressure off of Kerr and allowed him to find much better looks. JJ played with a freshman Greg Paulus.
    Last edited by Cameron; 09-16-2007 at 05:08 PM.
    "Duke is a once in a lifetime opportunity and something you don't pass up on." -Amile Jefferson

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cameron View Post
    ...--and is just as good, if not better, a stand still shooter than Steve Kerr. Remember, Kerr's 50 percent three-point shooting percentages were loudly influenced by the likes of Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. Their presences out on the floor let Kerr stand and shoot freely all day long most times.

    [referring to college career] Now Steve Kerr probably had defenses swarming on him as well, but he also had the aid of a National Player of the Year in his backcourt, Sean Elliot, who took a lot of the pressure off of Kerr and allowed him to find much better looks. JJ played with a freshman Greg Paulus.
    A couple of points.

    First, Sean Elliot was not a backcourt player. He was a power forward that drifted outside, a lot like Danny Ferry for Duke.

    Second, while Steve Kerr certainly benefited from playing with Elliot and others, he still had to make the shot. Kerr still holds the NCAA single season record for 3FG% (over 100 makes) at 57.3%. I don't care if you're alone in the gym, that's an impressive mark.

    Third, Kerr retired as the NBA's all-time leader in three-point shooting percentage for a season (.524 in 1994-95) and career (.454).

    I think JJ is an amazing player, and he's among the best shooters I've ever seen, and he makes them under all sorts of different situations. But, at this point, to call him a better spot-up shooter than Kerr, given Kerr's domination of the record books, is just ludicrous.

    JJ has played a total of 622 mins in the NBA so far. Let's give him a little more time to establish himself and figure out what kind of player he's going to be before we start either lauding him as the best at anything or putting other unrealistic expectations on his performance.
    JBDuke

    Andre Dawkins: “People ask me if I can still shoot, and I ask them if they can still breathe. That’s kind of the same thing.”

  7. #7
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    Redick is a stunning shooter, almost certainly the best we have seen in college in about a decade, but I am with JB in thinking that Steve Kerr is a better pure-shooter... at least from the evidence we have so far.

    That said, I think JJ is a far better scorer and more potent weapon than Kerr. JJ can create his shot much better than Kerr could and JJ has shown an ability to hit shots off the dribble and in traffic that Kerr never even really tried.

    Kerr was asked to do one thing and he did it exceptionally well, probably as well as anyone ever has at that one thing. JJ, OTOH, is going to be asked to be much more than a spot-up shooter in his NBA career (if for no other reason than the fact that Orlando needs him to be more than that because they do not have Michael Jordan to otherwise occupy the entire opposing defense).

    I think comparing them is more than a little simplistic. I don't consider them all that similar players any more than Moses Malone and Kareem were similar because they both scored on the inside and rebounded.

    --Jason "and it is still absurdly early to be comparing JJ to anyone who got more than a cup of coffee in the NBA" Evans

  8. #8

    Kerr vs JJ?

    Debating this early may be absurd, but comparisons are fun. I'll take JJ and present my case.

    As a veteran in the league, Kerr played 47 games for the Magic, scored 122 pts and shot 25% from three. JJ is already ahead of him on the Magic all-time scoring list playing just 42 games he has 252 pts and shot 39% from three. No contest JJ can retire today as the better Magic player.

    As far as the rest of their careers go, Kerr is certainly not setting the bar high. His rookie season makes JJ's seem like a dream. Kerr's rep hangs on 3pt% and a game winning Finals shot.

    Steve had a high career 3pt% but in 15 NBA seasons he only made enough 3s in a season to be eligible for 3pt% five times. Plus, Kerr's .524 came when the NBA tried to increase scoring by moving the three point line in 2 feet. In fact, the 3 seasons Kerr attempted the most 3s and made the most 3s are the same 3 years the NBA played around with the 3pt line. Take away those 3 years (hypothetical sure, but everybody using the normal line is a fair look) and his career percentage is no longer the top in the NBA; Steve Nash is. BTW, Kerr's only Allstar 3pt contest win also came with the moved in line.

    Kerr rode the coat tails of many championship teams and had the opportunity to take and make some big shots. No doubt he's known for hitting some clutch shots in a couple playoff series but his postseason 3pt% is only a good but not outstanding 37% (50th all-time).

    Who's the better shooter? If we're ignoring all factors like who they played with, against, 3pt distance, or how often they shot the three and just looking at career 3pt% then there is no debating Kerr is the better shooter so far. Yet if the debate is stand still shooter I'd argue free throws seem to be a perfect example of standing still shooting. JJ had a much higher college free throw % and so far has a higher career NBA free throw percentage.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGodfather View Post
    ...If we're ignoring all factors like who they played with, against, 3pt distance, or how often they shot the three and just looking at career 3pt% then there is no debating Kerr is the better shooter so far...
    This is exactly what I was saying.
    JBDuke

    Andre Dawkins: “People ask me if I can still shoot, and I ask them if they can still breathe. That’s kind of the same thing.”

  10. #10
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    Smile I Have a Slightly Different Take (You think!)

    JJ is the best, most incredible jump shooter I have ever seen. Kerr was nice. Put JJ on the floor with MJ, or Duncan, and see what he can do, with the other players that surrounded those two, and with Phil and Pop running the show, and I'd like to see what he could do.

    Kerr had a terrific, terrific basketball mind to go with his shot and playing abiltiy. His ability to be of value on the court was due to that combination. His success, however, was due to the fact that some really smart, talented leaders of organizations--who saw his value and understood how that would mesh on teams where an individual drew considerable attention and where there was a real offensive system in place--grabbed him.

    Whether JJ gets a similar match in a context where brilliant other teammates and a coach can allow him to contribute and whether he can take advantage of that as Kerr did, and have the longevity of Kerr, remain to be seen. I am not sure that Orlando is that place but I'd have to think that the big guy's experience this summer could not hurt!

    JJ has yet to show that he can navigate the waters and fit in, rather than being the main cog. If he has the smarts and will, then we should see a real contributor in Orlando, assuming he can get and stay healthy.

    Maybe, in the end, I'm saying the same thing you guys are. Anyway, just my two cents. (the price of a glass of seltzer that nobody in the candy store in my neighborhood ever, ever ordered)
    Last edited by greybeard; 09-17-2007 at 04:41 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fish80 View Post
    Anybody have more info on JJ's broken hand? I saw the link on DBR and the brief article in the Orlando paper.

    What type of break? What bone is broken? How did it happen? They say he'll be ready by training camp at the end of the month, that seems pretty quick for a broken bone to heal.
    While these steve kerr vs JJ debates are really interesting, can we maybe return to the point at hand (pun intended): does anyone know anymore about JJ's broken hand?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkyJ View Post
    While these steve kerr vs JJ debates are really interesting, can we maybe return to the point at hand (pun intended): does anyone know anymore about JJ's broken hand?
    Here's the latest I've read, along with a couple of quotes from JJ himself: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sport...,7883793.story

    The gist: He's been wearing a soft cast for a little over a week, expects it to come off Wednesday, and does not expect any impact to his readiness for training camp. It is not affecting his conditioning workouts, and he expects to resume normal basketball workouts this weekend.
    JBDuke

    Andre Dawkins: “People ask me if I can still shoot, and I ask them if they can still breathe. That’s kind of the same thing.”

  13. #13
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    And it only took us 12 posts to get there! Thanks JB!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkyJ View Post
    And it only took us 12 posts to get there! Thanks JB!
    I'm lost. Where are we. The guy got an injury at the base of his hand, a chip of a bone there (which one) that he does not know how he got only it really started annoying him and he is sure that it will be no big thing, because . . . ?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
    I'm lost. Where are we. The guy got an injury at the base of his hand, a chip of a bone there (which one) that he does not know how he got only it really started annoying him and he is sure that it will be no big thing, because . . . ?
    Because, as the articles say, there was no significant bone displacement - just a chip. It has been several weeks since the incident happened, so healing had started. The soft cast was a preventative measure to limit mobility for another couple of weeks. The doctors are telling him he'll be fine to resume bball workouts this weekend and 100% for start of camp at the beginning of next month.
    JBDuke

    Andre Dawkins: “People ask me if I can still shoot, and I ask them if they can still breathe. That’s kind of the same thing.”

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBDuke View Post
    Because, as the articles say, there was no significant bone displacement - just a chip. It has been several weeks since the incident happened, so healing had started. The soft cast was a preventative measure to limit mobility for another couple of weeks. The doctors are telling him he'll be fine to resume bball workouts this weekend and 100% for start of camp at the beginning of next month.
    Sounds good. Often "chips" are associated with a tendon or ligamen tearing away from the bone and taking some bone with it. Not so good. Never had one of those in my hand/wrist. Did have one in my foot. Don't ask.

    Hope the doc's prognosis in this instance proves more accurate than the one that had been reported regarding Paulus' prognosis from before last season.

    grey "I wasn't born such a cynic and am in the bag for JJ" beard

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