FB: UNC 45, Duke 20

[Troublemaker]

It sets the program back in terms of national respect and ability to recruit. First, the national media can now dismiss our season as a fluke - "Duke beat a lot of crap teams and got lucky against GT and Pitt." This will hurt future exposure and national rankings. "Same old Duke" they'll say.

Second, it further impedes converting casual fans to Duke football fans. Looks bad for the program if we can't even fill our tiny stadium, which leads to the first point, and can also inhibit recruiting. Generally, serious football talent wants to go to serious football programs. On the other hand, it could be a "boone" for short-term recruiting if it can show them playing time is readily available.

Ultimately, it's all about winning, and recruiting is essential for sustained winning. Can't keep counting on playing perfect games with no margin for error.

I don't think that the historical perspective of 1959 applies. Duke then was only several years removed from sustained national prominence. The larger context is so different compared to now. I badgered a bunch of Duke friends in Boston who never followed Duke football to watch the game with me. Worst decision ever. Their collected responses:

"Are you kidding me man, we're watching this? How is this different from when we were there (2005-09). I'm never watching Duke football again, and I have to get up at 4am tomorrow. Waste of time. The game isn't even close. No wonder, all our wins are super close against a terrible schedule. We're much worse than our record. Fumble fumble fumble interception, holy s--- this is exactly the SAME Duke football I remember."

Bought a round of drinks to make it up. Can't blame them. This was likely a one-time shot (at least for the near future) for a big chunk of neutral fans, and we blew it.

I see where you're coming from now.

I think the best (or most likely) way for Duke football to suddenly attract a bunch of bandwagon fans is for Cut to randomly land a great QB in recruiting at some point. He does have those very attractive Manning connections. And it may have to be a 4-star who ends up playing like a 5-star. You put a great QB behind center, and the bandwagon fans (of which I have to count myself as being) will come out in droves.

Barring that, I think the gradual improvement and gradual buildup of fans will continue.

[Papa John]

I was most troubled by this S. Powell quote from the J. Sumner article: "We just didn’t expect them to play that hard. We thought it would be an easier game."

Hate to tell you this, but that's on coaching, one way or another. You can't let your team think that.

That is indeed a troubling statement... But I disagree that the blame for such an attitude should be laid at the feet of the coaching staff. You can preach until you're blue in the face to your kids the fact that to be a championship team you must embrace the values of a championship team: intense focus, dogged work ethic, attention to detail, steady business-like demeanor, etc. Until they embody these values, there's really not much you can do though... Last season, these guys were hungry because they remembered the dark pit from which they had crawled... This season, they simply lost that edge down the stretch... They became complacent, and it bit them in the rear, big time... I'm sure they'll learn a good lesson from this, and hopefully we'll see that manifest itself in the coming years as a team that doesn't lose it's focus down the stretch...

[SoCalDukeFan]

There's an awful lot of talk here about a 10-win season for an 8-win team that hasn't played well at all lately. Don't count your chickens yet, friends.

I was most troubled by this S. Powell quote from the J. Sumner article: "We just didn’t expect them to play that hard. We thought it would be an easier game."

Hate to tell you this, but that's on coaching, one way or another. You can't let your team think that.

These are still college players.

I am sure that they saw film of UNC, and UNC was not playing hard. Missing tackles, etc. It was the story of their season.

Last night UNC decided to play tough. Yes Duke should have been ready for that. Yes the Duke should have had the players ready for that.
But soemtimes what the coaches say just not sink in.

SoCal

[OldPhiKap]

Not being ready because you thought the other team would not fight as hard is a maturity and experience issue more than anything. As someone said upthread, the coaches can preach until they are blue in the face -- the kids have to take it to heart.

Duke basketball knows it's going to get everyone's best shot. Because you're a top dog. We may win or lose, but we usually never have a lack of intensity.

Our football team needs to learn that. We do not have a lot of experience at being favored.



Having said all of that -- I would have thought this team did know better. It's @#$@# Carolina, playing for a bowl bid. Not sure what else you would expect.


And yes -- Wake will come to fight too in case the memo hasn't gone out yet.

[devildeac]

For those thinking the quote for our players thinking c*rolina wouldn't play that hard might have been taken out of context or that Powell was misquoted, think again. Laura Keeley also included it in her article today in the Raleigh N&O. So, unless we don't trust her and Jim Sumner, it certainly sounds real and still remains disturbing to me why in the #$%& we would assume/act/prepare/play in such a manner against our hated rival who is playing for bowl eligibility. SMH.

[Troublemaker]

For those thinking the quote for our players thinking c*rolina wouldn't play that hard might have been taken out of context or that Powell was misquoted, think again. Laura Keeley also included it in her article today in the Raleigh N&O. So, unless we don't trust her and Jim Sumner, it certainly sounds real and still remains disturbing to me why in the #$%& we would assume/act/prepare/play in such a manner against our hated rival who is playing for bowl eligibility. SMH.

Powell may just be making an excuse.

From the standpoint of a player competing in the game, it may be more palatable to think that the loss was the result of overlooking the opponent rather than Duke players preparing and playing their best and still getting their butts kicked.

From the standpoint of us fans, we just want our guys to try their best all the time and not overlook opponents, so that excuse doesn't sit well with us.

[bjornolf]

I went to check the recent recruiting rankings just to see how large the talent disparity is, and it's actually huge. From 2010-2014, they have a total of 33 4-star commitments, with 8 more 4-stars coming in 2015.

In that same time period, we have 5 4-star commitments, with 3 of them being redshirted, and the other 2 being our punter Will Monday and Shaun Wilson.

That is a ridiculous talent gap, and it speaks to how poorly coached UNC is that their performance has been so underwhelming when compared to their talent level. But on days where they just happen to put it together, and we doesn't come out executing well, they're gonna roll. We don't have really any margin for error when we play these talent replete teams. Unless they're just poorly coached (UVA and UNC). Actual talent gap is slightly exaggerated given some leave early for the NFL or don't redshirt.

In our division over the 2010-2014 time frame, # of 4-5 star recruits:
Miami - 47
UNC - 33
VT - 26
UVA - 20
Pitt - 11
GT - 10
Duke - 5
Cuse - 4
Wake - 3

And for comparison:
Clemson - 50+
FSU - 60+
Stanford - 36

If we can get to Stanford's level of maybe 6 4-stars every class, which should be doable, then we can be regular contenders for the ACC title.

Thanks. I was going by what I saw on the field, though, not by the teams on paper. So, yea, I agree that on paper they are far more gifted, but I didn't see that HUGE a disparity on the field. I thought our lack of execution hurt us far more, and that I blame on the short week.

[devildeac]

Thanks. I was going by what I saw on the field, though, not by the teams on paper. So, yea, I agree that on paper they are far more gifted, but I didn't see that HUGE a disparity on the field. I thought our lack of execution hurt us far more, and that I blame on the short week.

Sorry, Joe but the cheaters had a short week, too, so I can't buy that one. No injuries except Saxton and the other guys out all year that we knew already. I don't have an explanation but I don't think it can be the short week.

[-jk]

Sorry, Joe but the cheaters had a short week, too, so I can't buy that one. No injuries except Saxton and the other guys out all year that we knew already. I don't have an explanation but I don't think it can be the short week.

I think unc had a bye last week.

-jk

[Bob Green]

I think unc had a bye last week.

-jk

Nope, they beat Pittsburgh.

[jv001]

Nope, they beat Pittsburgh.

VT had a bye week right before our loss(give away) to them. GoDuke!

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

It will be interesting to see what sort of game UNC can string together next Saturday. It's a home game for Carolina; NC State has nothing to lose.

[jv001]

I hope our offense can at least keep the defense off the field better than they have in the last two games. It starts with the QB hitting his receivers on the numbers. GoDuke!

[bjornolf]

Sorry, Joe but the cheaters had a short week, too, so I can't buy that one. No injuries except Saxton and the other guys out all year that we knew already. I don't have an explanation but I don't think it can be the short week.

Yes, they did, but if you read my original post, you would see my reasoning. Talent wins over skill in a short week situation. As a guy who played back in the day, I can tell you how much a short week messes with your preparation. A superior coached and skilled team with less talent is at a HUGE disadvantage in a short week, because they need the time to prepare. Duke made all sorts of execution errors that they don't usually make. The offensive line was very out of sync. They can't afford to beat themselves, and they usually don't. UNC was riding a high from their win, while Duke had suffered a crushing and division losing loss. It takes time for these kids to get over that. A short week helps positive momentum carry over, but also makes it harder to get over a bad loss in time. I've seen it... heck, I've lived through it. In my humble opinion, the short week hurt Duke FAR more than Carolina.

[orrnot]

"We just didn’t expect them to play that hard"

He shouldn't have thought it, and he shouldn't have said it. The team should not have believed it. That said, anyone who has watched or read about Carolina football this season should concur. I think most honest Carolina fans would say they were pleasantly surprised by their team's intensity, as well as by its talent and execution. They had a very good night, cementing their upward trajectory of late. Congratulations to them on peaking at the right time for a well-deserved victory.

Conversely, Duke showed a reverse trajectory recently, culminating in poor execution and a mindset that was more confused than intense. For two years prior the roles have been opposite in these games. Duke has brought focus and desire to the contests that Carolina couldn't match. I think Carolina's talent ceiling will always be higher than Duke's, and thus wins will be challenging to come by. What we've learned from Coach Cutcliffe is that they're not impossible to achieve.

I look forward to getting that bell back.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

The game was disappointing. The players' interviews, especially after the game, seem to have disappointed as well. The whole thing is a reminder that the players and coaches are human beings, subject to making mistakes, losing focus and disappointing themselves and others. It's hard to say when or how the illnesses of close family members influence player behavior, performance or comments... or even what else is going on in the background that fans have no reason to know about.

There's another regular season game yet to play and there's reason be to optimistic about the outcome....a much better situation than was the case just a few short years ago. My point is not to chastise anyone. It's my intention to mourn briefly and move on.

[Devilwin]

Now that it's over, and I have had time to think it over, I regret blaming Cut so much, because there is no doubt he has brought respect back to the program.
Losing to UNC was bad, especially when we just laid down like that. Maybe a hangover from the Va Tech game, which we certainly should have won.
( Wake just beat them in OT)
We need to win this coming weekend to bolster confidence for the bowl game, if for no other reason.
I have been a Duke fan since I was a kid, and remember when Duke was great (I am 62 now), and saw the decline of the program. So I have seen it all. Never once have I wavered in the support of the team, enduring all those miserable years.
In that vein, I have seen us rise again, and I think it's the anticipation that gets me bent when we play like we did the last couple of games.
I remember the great back Jay Calabrese rumbling through opposing defenses, and the fantastic combo of Hart to Chesson, the running of Steve Jones, the passing of Ben Bennett to Chris Castor. It always seemed back then we were just one or two players short of greatness.
If we can get bigger on the D line it would help, and teach our D backs that there are no eyes in the back of our heads, and turn to look for the ball sometimes, we can get better.