UNC Athletics Scandal

[Duvall]

Looks like more bad press to me. Do you feel the vandalism of the locker room is non-germane as well?

Yes? But at least that can be tied to a culture of permissiveness around UNC athletics. Here we don't even have that.

[BigWayne]

Looks like more bad press to me. Do you feel the vandalism of the locker room is non-germane as well?

The sugar baby thing is a phenomenon that is present at many schools and is something that the school has no control over whatsoever. The vandalism of the locker room was done by official representatives of UNC during the conduct of UNC business. The issue with the spray paint is not that kids spray painted anything, it's that the coaches and managers did not manage the situation properly.

[Duvall]

Why is Pack Pride (and of course Dan Kane) doing all the heavy lifting? Are there no Blue Devils who have lent their efforts and any expertise to digging up the dirt on UNC?

Duke athletics has won championships in recent memory, so its fans are less inclined to feel the need to assert their relevance through amateur sleuthing.

[OldPhiKap]

Duke athletics has won championships in recent memory, so its fans are less inclined to feel the need to assert their relevance through amateur sleuthing.

Not sure that is fair. PackPride is largely responsible for all of this coming to light, along with the PJ stuff last year. A good example of the new citizen media, for better or worse.

I applaud what they have done; UNC would have dodged this whole thing but for some dedicated folks over there.

[moonpie23]

do any of you think that they would EVER do anything to jeopardize the banners? seriously?

If his majesty, dean smith, came down to the dump and told them to take them down, he's be ridiculed as "elderly" and "not in command of his faculties"...


no, the money that runs the show over there is Athletic money, and those banners will be pulled from their cold, dead hands by force...

this is what they're looking at...and they're not flinching...

[OldPhiKap]

do any of you think that they would EVER do anything to jeopardize the banners? seriously?

If his majesty, dean smith, came down to the dump and told them to take them down, he's be ridiculed as "elderly" and "not in command of his faculties"...


no, the money that runs the show over there is Athletic money, and those banners will be pulled from their cold, dead hands by force...

this is what they're looking at...and they're not flinching...

Which is why I hope that the NCAA realizes -- nothing will get UNC's attention other than doing it.

You are exactly right.

[TKG]

I dislike the Tar Heels.

[duke80]

Not sure that is fair. PackPride is largely responsible for all of this coming to light, along with the PJ stuff last year. A good example of the new citizen media, for better or worse.

I applaud what they have done; UNC would have dodged this whole thing but for some dedicated folks over there.

Pack Pride really gets the nature of the fraud over at UNC. I don't use the word lightly. It is something that is not easy to understand or get by most folk, because it is so foreign to normal people.

I was involved in a bad investment where fraud was involved. It took two years to unwind and most of the investors could not believe what had happened to their money. IMHO the reason why
UNC has delayed, distracted and denied is that they are hiding something deeper and bigger than even the athletic/academic fraud currently being discussed. If they can control the process and
conversation to class credits and eligibility, which is really bad, the real dirt will not come out.

What I learned from my fraud case is that the motivation of the people responsible is financial gain and control. Oh did I mention financial gain? Not titles, wins, or snobbery. It's money plain and simple.
At all costs they need to control the conversation and use the investors, or donors and fans in this case, to defend them, prop them up and be their mouthpiece. On top of this, the perps are the ones
who insist that they are the good guys and victims, and when they are challenged, they react with anger and blustering. Who does this remind you of?

The fact that UNC has spent millions on spin control, consultants and attorneys makes total sense as fraud always wants to hide behind the veil of secrecy and use the law to not be held accountable.
That is why the alleged investigation by the DOE is so significant. It is the first probe into possible financial improprieties. There have been many surprises in this sordid affair up till this point. If I am right,
there may be more.

[devildeac]

I dislike the Tar Heels.

Dislike is a rather weak word.

[-jk]

Here's a fun site, including all public records requests of unc:

http://publicrecords.unc.edu/public-records/

-jk

[Bostondevil]

So there's this article http://grantland.com/the-triangle/20...racuse-orange/ which touches on the scandal at the end. Ultimately Titus defends Roy Williams and the basketball program. He asserts that the classes weren't "fake", you just didn't have to attend them and the only requirement was writing one paper so, of course, basketball players heard about them from their football friends and took them without Roy knowing what was going on, because, you know, Roy's got better, more important, basketball things to do than monitor what courses all 15 of his players are taking.

I can't even.

Yeah, I'm posting here because I sure none of us can. But, does he have a point? I think he's an ESPN underling desperately grasping at a reason to keep the program going. Severe punishments to Carolina will probably hurt the rivalry's revenues in the short term - maybe even long term. In my mind, if any player on the national championship team was deemed academically ineligible, the banner comes down. Yes, even at Carolina, cheating is cheating. But you know what, even if the banner doesn't come down, it's tainted.

You know what all of this did? Made me look up what Marion Jones majored in. She graduated in 1994, so, a bit on the early side to have participated plus she majored in communications. Still, I wonder if Carolina is where she learned to cheat. I'll admit, I was kinda hoping maybe UNC would get to vacate national championships in men's and women's basketball. It's a record they'd probably be able to hang onto forever! Think they'd hang a banner?

[BigWayne]

I had thought about doing some graphs like this after the Wainstein report came out as it was pointed out a few places that the summary report gave a graph that was misleading in two ways. 1) It used the sheer numbers of football players enrolled in the fraudulent classes to minimize the BBall involvement. 2) While the raw data in the report went back to 1993, the graphs they published started later when football picked up steam. I just didn't have the time to do it.

Anyway, a poster over at PP has done some excellent work to show that, yes, it really is a basketball scandal.

You can find these and more graphs at this page at PP.
The data shown below is the number of enrollments in the paper and independent study classes cited in the Wainstein report as fraudulent.

normalized_fraud.jpg
bball_fraud.jpg

[davekay1971]

I had thought about doing some graphs like this after the Wainstein report came out as it was pointed out a few places that the summary report gave a graph that was misleading in two ways. 1) It used the sheer numbers of football players enrolled in the fraudulent classes to minimize the BBall involvement. 2) While the raw data in the report went back to 1993, the graphs they published started later when football picked up steam. I just didn't have the time to do it.

Anyway, a poster over at PP has done some excellent work to show that, yes, it really is a basketball scandal.

You can find these and more graphs at this page at PP.
The data shown below is the number of enrollments in the paper and independent study classes cited in the Wainstein report as fraudulent.

normalized_fraud.jpg
bball_fraud.jpg

Wow. Those are two stunning and telling graphs. This was clearly a basketball scandal that the football players piggybacked onto. Timing is interesting. While the first enrollments happened in 1990, the beginning of a steady pattern of BB player enrollment happened in summer 1992, after Duke's 2nd back-to-back championship. It picked up under Guthridge and Doh, then absolutely exploded in the Walden/Williams years. While enrollment in the Smith years could be a few athletes taking a few courses without their coach knowing the true nature of the courses, the later increases under his successors strongly implies a cheating system that any coach would catch onto. The explosion under Williams can only be explained by a coach encouraging his players into the cheating system.

[bob blue devil]

Wow. Those are two stunning and telling graphs. This was clearly a basketball scandal that the football players piggybacked onto. Timing is interesting. While the first enrollments happened in 1990, the beginning of a steady pattern of BB player enrollment happened in summer 1992, after Duke's 2nd back-to-back championship. It picked up under Guthridge and Doh, then absolutely exploded in the Walden/Williams years. While enrollment in the Smith years could be a few athletes taking a few courses without their coach knowing the true nature of the courses, the later increases under his successors strongly implies a cheating system that any coach would catch onto. The explosion under Williams can only be explained by a coach encouraging his players into the cheating system.

The other important date is Crowder's retirement in '09 (coincidentally <sarcasm>, approximately when Roy decided having players clustering in a single major was a bad thing...). Of course, this chart only covers the fraudulent AFAM courses, so it will be interesting to see how the inclusion of non-AFAM fraudulent courses impact things (assuming UNC ever allows that info to come to light...).

[devildeac]

I had thought about doing some graphs like this after the Wainstein report came out as it was pointed out a few places that the summary report gave a graph that was misleading in two ways. 1) It used the sheer numbers of football players enrolled in the fraudulent classes to minimize the BBall involvement. 2) While the raw data in the report went back to 1993, the graphs they published started later when football picked up steam. I just didn't have the time to do it.

Anyway, a poster over at PP has done some excellent work to show that, yes, it really is a basketball scandal.

You can find these and more graphs at this page at PP.
The data shown below is the number of enrollments in the paper and independent study classes cited in the Wainstein report as fraudulent.

normalized_fraud.jpg
bball_fraud.jpg

Great find, BW! A number of the posters over at PackPride can't wait to get that info out to the media. Can they send it to the ncaa, too? (Let's see how they spray paint that one.)

devil9f.gif

[jv001]

Wow. Those are two stunning and telling graphs. This was clearly a basketball scandal that the football players piggybacked onto. Timing is interesting. While the first enrollments happened in 1990, the beginning of a steady pattern of BB player enrollment happened in summer 1992, after Duke's 2nd back-to-back championship. It picked up under Guthridge and Doh, then absolutely exploded in the Walden/Williams years. While enrollment in the Smith years could be a few athletes taking a few courses without their coach knowing the true nature of the courses, the later increases under his successors strongly implies a cheating system that any coach would catch onto. The explosion under Williams can only be explained by a coach encouraging his players into the cheating system.

Now my unc friends that want to push the blame entirely onto the football team, can be told other wise. I'm glad to see Dean Smith was not as complicit in these fake classes as Guthridge, Doh and Ol.d Roy. I never really liked Dean, but I did respect him. As I've said in the past, I knew the heels were cheating way back when, but I could not prove it.GoDuke!

[BigWayne]

Wow. Those are two stunning and telling graphs. This was clearly a basketball scandal that the football players piggybacked onto.

The normalized graph really shows this. Even in the peak years of the football team taking advantage raw number wise, the basketball team was proportionately more involved in the fake classes.

[Indoor66]

The normalized graph really shows this. Even in the peak years of the football team taking advantage raw number wise, the basketball team was proportionately more involved in the fake classes.

I don't find this at all shocking. Basketball has, since Frank McGuire, been the premier sport at unCheat. That such a program was revved up after 1991-92 is about par for the course over there.

[alteran]

do any of you think that they would EVER do anything to jeopardize the banners? seriously?

If his majesty, dean smith, came down to the dump and told them to take them down, he's be ridiculed as "elderly" and "not in command of his faculties"...


no, the money that runs the show over there is Athletic money, and those banners will be pulled from their cold, dead hands by force...

this is what they're looking at...and they're not flinching...

Looks like it's time to toss the dwarf.

[hudlow]

An editorial about the secret society that has developed as a result of The Carolina Way...

...but this thread needs to be moved back up...

http://www.news-record.com/opinion/n...ab92ac36e.html