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Thread: I mourn for UNC

  1. #121
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Chapel Hill
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    I have a feeling we'll never get completely to the bottom of this until someone with subpoena power comes along.

    Which isn't the NCAA.
    Exaa--aaactly.
    Love, Ima

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    The City of Brotherly Love except when it's cold.
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Will the NCAA just go on the Wainstein report? Or will they act on the additional paths implied in the appendix? Are they going to take at face-value the idea that only one department was involved and that everyone high in the food chain was shocked to learn that gambling was going on in their fine establishment?
    I hope Emmert's comment "If the Wainstein report is accurate..." was a simply a poor choice of words.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by 83and86 View Post
    I occasionally feel sorry for their thinking and intelligent fans, and some of the more rational alumni who are outraged and ashamed. But they are very few and far between. Take a trip over to IC (you'll need a shower afterwards). Most of their fanbase continues to believe that they did nothing wrong (the classes were accredited for goodness sake!) and this whole mess is a result of pettiness (PackPride), haters and jealousy (just about everyone else). I don't hold out any realistic expectation of severe sanctions. And even if they are sanctioned severely, that will do nothing to dampen their smugness, arrogance, denial and delusions about the Carolina Way. The first step in dealing with any problem is to admit there is a problem. You're never going to get the majority of Carolina fans to take that step. Just isn't going to happen. No mourning here. I'll leave that to the few sensible Carolina fans/alumni/students.
    I try to avoid visits to IC as much as the next poster on this message board, but I've heard several references to IC discussions on this topic. Could you or anyone provide a few links to relevant threads on IC? I don't want to accidentally see too much by searching their forum...

  4. #124
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    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by 77devil View Post
    I hope Emmert's comment "If the Wainstein report is accurate..." was a simply a poor choice of words.
    I noted the same thing and wondered if he was leaving the ncaa an escape route.
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    Duke Lacrosse did nothing (at least as accused). UNC apparently did. Huge difference. Culpability: One fades; one lives on.

    -jk
    Yea, the lacrosse scandal has largely faded from the news cycle (thank God), but it amazes me how many "lay people" (those folks having nothing to do with Duke) still associate Duke with the lacrosse scandal. My daughter is a senior in high school and I was hoping I could convince her to apply to Duke (no such luck, unfortunately), but when I mentioned this to many people, almost all of them say to me...."you mean, that school with the awful lacrosse scandal? Why do you want her to go there?" Like Duke is somehow associated with leprosy and ebola combined. LOL. I then have to tell them that I went there, almost all the charges brought by Miss Mangum were found to be false, and Duke is one of the best universities in the country. But many people still think of Duke as a place where rich, spoiled white kids sexually assault poor black women.

    I don't think this cheating scandal at UNC will ever reach that level of public awareness. I always say that it is not a real scandal (a la Penn St. or the Duke lacrosse case) until Fox News has one of their mobile trucks on the scene with a bleached blonde "news reporter" breathlessly reporting on the "scandal."

  6. #126
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    Feb 2007
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    Boston area, OK, Newton, right by Heartbreak Hill
    Quote Originally Posted by duke79 View Post
    I don't think this cheating scandal at UNC will ever reach that level of public awareness.
    There was a joke about it on Weekend Update last Saturday night. That's up there with awareness.


    The people I feel the most sorry for in all of this?

    1) Students who legitimately majored in African American Studies.
    2) The 3100 (or more) applicants who were denied admission to the University of North Carolina so that they could make room for these non-students to attend.

  7. #127
    I'm kinda mourning that this thread is seven pages long and counting.
    Good lord.....
    Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.'

  8. #128
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    Feb 2007
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    Richmond, Va
    And at what point does the snooping/questioning begin for "student/athletes" at one-and-done UK? Baylor? Or anywhere else? This could very well just be the tip of the iceberg. The apparent fact that unc had this going on for 18 years is just scary.

  9. #129
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    Feb 2007
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    Santa Cruz CA
    Quote Originally Posted by duke79 View Post
    I don't think this cheating scandal at UNC will ever reach that level of public awareness. I always say that it is not a real scandal (a la Penn St. or the Duke lacrosse case) until Fox News has one of their mobile trucks on the scene with a bleached blonde "news reporter" breathlessly reporting on the "scandal."
    That is why major sanctions need to happen. Removal of the banners is the visible thing that TV needs. That and the image of Clemson beating a team full of walk-ons at the Dean Dome.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by BigWayne View Post
    That is why major sanctions need to happen. Removal of the banners is the visible thing that TV needs. That and the image of Clemson beating a team full of walk-ons at the Dean Dome.
    Followed by Klemnop streaking down Franklin Street

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil in the Blue Dress View Post
    I wonder if it will be resolved this decade. The layers of problems once uncovered present new problems to research and dissect.

    It's intriguing to me that secondary level employees would conceive such an SOP and be able to carry it off without any direction, initiation, intervention or monitoring by their superiors .... and do so for such a long period of time.
    I was typing a spork for you but it was going to be too long so I decided to share with all. (You still got the spork though! )

    My first impression of your three and a half sentence post was "Wow, DitBD captured the heart of the matter in less than a paragraph" but then it hit me... isn't that what they want us to believe? The length of time is incredulous and damning for sure. 18 years? My son turns 18 this coming January. His birth feels like a lifetime ago.

    But my second guessing of myself and of you is this: Could "Secondary level employees both conceive such an SOP and be able to carry it off without any direction, initiation, intervention, or monitoring by their superiors"? We have been asked to believe that. After careful consideration, I am going to politely decline.

    I find that to be about as plausible as Roy Williams having never lived a sinful day in his entire life.

    With the careful wording of your post, I'm inclined to believe you do not find this idea plausible either.

  12. #132
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    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    I was typing a spork for you but it was going to be too long so I decided to share with all. (You still got the spork though! )

    My first impression of your three and a half sentence post was "Wow, DitBD captured the heart of the matter in less than a paragraph" but then it hit me... isn't that what they want us to believe? The length of time is incredulous and damning for sure. 18 years? My son turns 18 this coming January. His birth feels like a lifetime ago.

    But my second guessing of myself and of you is this: Could "Secondary level employees both conceive such an SOP and be able to carry it off without any direction, initiation, intervention, or monitoring by their superiors"? We have been asked to believe that. After careful consideration, I am going to politely decline.

    I find that to be about as plausible as Roy Williams having never lived a sinful day in his entire life.

    With the careful wording of your post, I'm inclined to believe you do not find this idea plausible either.
    Here's the thing: it does not matter whether the upper level folks knew or not. Even if we bought what UNC is shoveling, that itself establishes a fundamental lack of institutional control and a wonton disregard for the very basic precepts of student-athleticism.

    I do not care whether Roy knew; whether Roy (wink wink) did not "know" with metaphysical certitude; or whether he was cluelessly duped by the advisor he brought with him from Kansas. He (and the other coaches and administrators) were responsible for what happened in their programs. That's why they get the big bucks.

    So, let's suspend disbelief for a moment and assume that a bunch of control-freak coaches, in numerous sports, were somehow absolutely unaware that their underlings conspired to manipulate the system in order to manufacture eligibility. It is still their staff; it still happened under their watch. "The Buck Stops Here." You would expect them to be absolutely livid that some underling violated their duties to them and jeopardized their reputation/career, and that this aggrieved coach would demand that justice be done. The fact that we do not see this expected response speaks volumes however.

    And this whole "lack of knowledge" defense is particularly rich coming from a fan base that absolutely blasted Jim Valvano for "what he should have known" in a sordid, but much more contained, affair. The problems at UNC went on for eighteen years. EIGHTEEN YEARS. E-I-G-H-T-E-E-N flipping Y-E-A-R-S. Through four different basketball head coaches. Yet none of them knew?!?

    It reminds me of Maxwell Smart -- "Would you believe . . . ."

    No, I would not. But not knowing does not change what needs to happen. Each coach should offer his or her resignation. Because how do you preach to your team about responsibility, when you will not take any yourselves?
    Last edited by OldPhiKap; 10-30-2014 at 03:50 AM.

  13. #133
    After yesterday's song and dance with Swofford and Williams, I've come to the point where I don't understand why Duke as a body isn't speaking out more. The hucksters over there (and I'm including Swofford in that group now) are frankly sullying the entire ACC and by extension Duke at this point. Yeah, it's funny to mock them, but we're now a member of an organization openly minimizing the cheating that went on over there and led by an individual that can't be truthful and open when given the chance. Swofford has to go before he further hurts the ACC brand. If UNC wants remain in the gutter and not take responsibility, so be it, but Swofford's going to sully the ACC's reputation and by extension ours, if he's allowed to maintain in place.

    It's now been a week and UNC's actions over it have killed any shred of caring I've had about them. I'm more disgusted and dissappointed now than I was when the report was issued.

  14. #134
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Nah, Duke should stay out of it and let Ol' Roy dig his own grave. The more he speaks, the worse UNC looks. The long time fraud was designed and perpetrated by UNC people and there's
    zero reason to allow them to say they're the victim of some anti-UNC conspiracy.

    Carol Folt is on the clock now. Amazingly, I truly think she wants to fix her institutions very damaged reputation, and the more Roy speaks, the closer he is to
    getting pushed out...I really believe that.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    Nah, Duke should stay out of it and let Ol' Roy dig his own grave. The more he speaks, the worse UNC looks. The long time fraud was designed and perpetrated by UNC people and there's
    zero reason to allow them to say they're the victim of some anti-UNC conspiracy.

    Carol Folt is on the clock now. Amazingly, I truly think she wants to fix her institutions very damaged reputation, and the more Roy speaks, the closer he is to
    getting pushed out...I really believe that.
    Maybe, but the longer these hucksters stay around, the worse it looks for everyone (UNC academics, UNC athletics, the ACC, other ACC members) involved. Holt's battling some very entrenched interests over there and I'll believe she's actually doing something when I see/hear it.

    More than anything I'm just disappointed that there's a good chance that every Duke telecast this year will devolve at some point to the UNC scandal until there's some closure.

  16. #136
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    Feb 2013
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    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Quote Originally Posted by sammy3469 View Post
    More than anything I'm just disappointed that there's a good chance that every Duke telecast this year will devolve at some point to the UNC scandal until there's some closure.
    I wouldn't be disappointed at all. I get goose bumps every time it's mentioned.

    Redemption and forgiveness require confession and repentance. What we're getting from Bubba and Roy are minimization and denial, obviously scripted by the PR people to whom UNC-CH has paid seven figures for such guidance. [Have you noticed that Bubba and Roy had the same talking points this week?]

    I'd like to see this story run 24/7 until the coaches and administrators cut the crap, admit that they cheated for almost two decades, and readily accept a severe sanction. UNC-CH could get this whole thing behind them by negotiating a sufficiently stern settlement with the NCAA. But they don't seem to want to. So the story continues to have legs because UNC-CH is dragging it out.

    If that's the way they want to play it, OK. But given that they've chosen a path guaranteed to keep the bombardment of questions and press references going, I say keep the bombardment of questions and press references going.

    How about ESPN4: The Scandal Channel. With baby blue backdrops and 24/7 coverage. Maybe get some slick CNN-style graphics.

  17. #137
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    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by sammy3469 View Post
    Maybe, but the longer these hucksters stay around, the worse it looks for everyone (UNC academics, UNC athletics, the ACC, other ACC members) involved. Holt's battling some very entrenched interests over there and I'll believe she's actually doing something when I see/hear it.

    More than anything I'm just disappointed that there's a good chance that every Duke telecast this year will devolve at some point to the UNC scandal until there's some closure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Henderson View Post
    I wouldn't be disappointed at all. I get goose bumps every time it's mentioned.

    Redemption and forgiveness require confession and repentance. What we're getting from Bubba and Roy are minimization and denial, obviously scripted by the PR people to whom UNC-CH has paid seven figures for such guidance. [Have you noticed that Bubba and Roy had the same talking points this week?]

    I'd like to see this story run 24/7 until the coaches and administrators cut the crap, admit that they cheated for almost two decades, and readily accept a severe sanction. UNC-CH could get this whole thing behind them by negotiating a sufficiently stern settlement with the NCAA. But they don't seem to want to. So the story continues to have legs because UNC-CH is dragging it out.

    If that's the way they want to play it, OK. But given that they've chosen a path guaranteed to keep the bombardment of questions and press references going, I say keep the bombardment of questions and press references going.

    How about ESPN4: The Scandal Channel. With baby blue backdrops and 24/7 coverage. Maybe get some slick CNN-style graphics.
    For the first time in a long time, I am curious to hear from Dickie V. He has, for years, gone on and on about how Carolina does things the right way. I am sure that he is buds with Roy and will try to couch aspersions, but -- Dickie V will no doubt comment on the matter. A lot. Every game.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Dickie V will no doubt comment on the matter. A lot. Every game.

    Yes, no doubt with repetitive hyperbole, and yawping sad head-shaking while praising Saint roy for his lifelong dedication to the uplift of deserving young men and the beatification of all things hole-ian.
    Barf.
    Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.'

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    Yes, no doubt with repetitive hyperbole, and yawping sad head-shaking while praising Saint roy for his lifelong dedication to the uplift of deserving young men and the beatification of all things hole-ian.
    Barf.
    LOL, so true. I don't see Dickie V. coming down hard on Roy or Carolina. Just not in his DNA to be as critical as he should be.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by duketaylor View Post
    And at what point does the snooping/questioning begin for "student/athletes" at one-and-done UK? Baylor? Or anywhere else? This could very well just be the tip of the iceberg. The apparent fact that unc had this going on for 18 years is just scary.
    That's why I don't believe the "everyone else does it" argument. With all the poking around the NCAA has done at places like Auburn, Memphis, Florida State or Miami to name a few, you'd think that if everybody did it they would've found this going on at other places. If everyone has fake classes, why not send a few people to whomever is signing Eddie Sutton's or John Calipari's paychecks, and they're certain to be there, right? And considering these places have a much lower academic reputation and don't get the benefit of the doubt unc does, the infamous "court of public opinion" would already have done half the ncaa's job.

    But they spent a decade trying to staple-gun Jerry Tarkanian's testicles to the ceiling and never found anything like this at unlv. When unlv was the academic laughingstock of Division I.

    So either nobody else cheats like unc did, or everybody else is smarter than unc at not getting caught. Why couldn't unc figure out whatever way everyone else was cheating, and just cheat that way?

    OK, Tar Heels, which is it?

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