MBB: 2014-15 UNC-CHeaters Season Thread (on-court)

[_Gary]

And no offense to WHeat but this and the scandal is the reason I really don't give a flying rip about the potential of this team. The basketball has been ruined. Any win they get including over us won't mean a damn thing to me because they are a fraud program of cheaters. Given the scope of the 18 year long scandal to keep ineligible players legal to play, it is fair to ask how many other areas have they and do they cheat in. Recruiting for example. How many unknown violations there? Booster payments to players? It's a Pandora's box and we will never know the true scope and depth of the cheating or how far back it really goes. Game over.

This will be my one and only post in this thread as I simply don't care about their basketball program any longer. Karma says they should win nothing and lose tons of games, but that won't happen. Anything they win is meaningless to me and I hope they lose every game by 30.

Lets talk about the legit programs in the ACC like Louisville, NC State, Wake, FSU, Clemson, Pitt, BC and the like...

Wanted to spork you for this but the system wouldn't let me. Great post that echoes my feelings to a tee!

[jipops]

The top of the ACC looks like a toss-up to me. The pale blue have a lot of talent, depth, and experience going for them. I doubt we'll see any presser meltdowns/blunders from Roy this season given the strength of his roster, despite the scandal. Which is unfortunate because they are always entertaining.

[MCFinARL]

You're right about the players, but how about the coach and the institution?

I have no reason, even with these past shenanigans, to implicate the current players.

Roy and his staff should resign.

Two different things.

Point taken; my concern here goes only to the current players. You are both right that coach, program and administration don't deserve the same presumption of innocence.

You probably felt pretty confident that the advisors at unc wouldn't allow fraudulent classes over the past 20 years

The evidence that the current players are engaged in fraud is that that is the way it has been done at carolina for the past 20 years. Circumstantial. But evidence.

As long as carolina refuses to take FULL responsibility, it is a fair inference that fraud has been and will continue to be accepted at carolina.

ol' roy and carolina players basked in the unwarranted presumption of moral superiority for too many years. Turn about is fair play, the current team must bear the burden of the reputation sullied over the last 20 or more years.

Re evidence, I hope if I am ever accused of a crime, you are not on my jury.

Re bearing the burden of the sullied reputation, in a sense, of course, they do have to bear that burden; I see your point. But when it comes to the players, I'm still not sure it's "fair."

[elvis14]

Wanted to spork you for this but the system wouldn't let me. Great post that echoes my feelings to a tee!

I sporked Newton_14 for you Gary :-)

Here's hoping they lose every game!

[dukebluelemur]

I expect they will be VERY good this year...

The issues with UNC for this year are not on the court as much as how much if any distractions are taking place off the court with the cheating scandal.

If the team is insulated from off the court stuff, UNC should be a tough out and is potential FF material IMO.

Pretty sure insulating the team from what's going on off the court at their school is what got them into this situation in the first place...

[duke80]

Our team/players seem to run out of steam during the second half of the season.
Could this be partly due to the fact that they have to study so much and earn
their grades? Now that we know that UNC had to 'cheat to compete' it makes
me wonder.

If I recall, our teams that won the NCAA tournament were not physically dominant.
They did however play as a team, were an extension of their coach and played
with a focus and will not many teams could match.

I will always wonder from now on about teams that just seem so fresh and
physically strong come tournament time. That is why it was so special to
see Stanford make their run last year in the tournament. Seeing a team
excel beyond expectations was really a pleasure to see.

Maybe given the revelations about UNC, our players will be more willing to
embrace coach K's coaching, his focus on team and emphasis on defense
as possibly the best ways to level the playing field come tournament time.

When I think about it, it is really so impressive that we have done as well as
we have during the K era. Go Duke.

[Duvall]

Bilas has linked several damning articles in his tweets. He often follows it with a comment that the academic oversight folks failed or we're AWOL too.

Bilas has certainly been working very hard on Twitter to convince people to train their focus on academics that have largely retired or left UNC, and away from fraud beneficiaries like Roy Williams who is producing valuable inventory for ESPN, or like ESPN analysts Matt Doherty, Mack Brown and Butch Davis.

Never let it be said that Jay Bilas is not a loyal company man.

[sammy3469]

I almost want them to be good, but not too good, so ESPN actually has to address their academic fraud on a continual basis since the network has been pathetically silent for the most part and when they do produce something it's prearranged shutdown with Mack Brown and Butch Davis.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Two particular players to watch this season that I think are going to show marked improvement for the Heels.

Nate Britt: The kid can play and is quick. He and Berry on the second team will push it, both ways. If not for Paige, he'd be the starting PG.
He gets to the rim with ease but has to finish at the rim better than he did as a freshman. He must also show improvement on knocking down his open looks. Tough mentally, he'll look better this year now that he has a season under his belt.

Isaiah Hicks: Players enter college at different levels of maturity. This kid has a thoroughbred's body but a colts confidence. He'll play his natural PF this season and challenge Brice Johnson to start, if he starts to understand he can be a stud sooner rather than later. It's all between the ears with this kid, he has all the tools.

[Kedsy]

Our team/players seem to run out of steam during the second half of the season.

This is largely a myth. Which means any theory about why it happens is necessarily flawed.

If I recall, our teams that won the NCAA tournament were not physically dominant.

I'm not sure what you mean by "physically dominant," but I think I disagree with this statement as well.

Two particular players to watch this season that I think are going to show marked improvement for the Heels.

Nate Britt: The kid can play and is quick. He and Berry on the second team will push it, both ways. If not for Paige, he'd be the starting PG.
He gets to the rim with ease but has to finish at the rim better than he did as a freshman. He must also show improvement on knocking down his open looks. Tough mentally, he'll look better this year now that he has a season under his belt.

Isaiah Hicks: Players enter college at different levels of maturity. This kid has a thoroughbred's body but a colts confidence. He'll play his natural PF this season and challenge Brice Johnson to start, if he starts to understand he can be a stud sooner rather than later. It's all between the ears with this kid, he has all the tools.

I might buy the hype about Hicks, but I'm skeptical about Britt. You were high on him last season, too, and he was one of the most inefficient players in the ACC.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I might buy the hype about Hicks, but I'm skeptical about Britt. You were high on him last season, too, and he was one of the most inefficient players in the ACC.

It's a fair thought to be skeptical, he has a lot to do to become an impact player. But, remember that stats don't tell the complete story on players. He was a quick but undersized freshman last season and I still thought he handled his role well and showed plenty of promise...we'll see.

There is one question that will have to be answered for me as the season goes along.

How tough is this team?

With the exception of Paige, and Britt to an extent, this team might lack that spark, a mean streak that really good teams have to have. The rest of the players seem to play reaction basketball rather than action ball, if you know what I mean.

Maybe the freshman have it, I don't know yet.

[77devil]

The second team is where the quickness of this team will be most apparent, and they will get minutes. UNC is going to wear teams down this season with pressure.

Shooting has improved enough over last season and to help spread the floor.

The team is gonna run, run, run. And they're gonna do a lot of pressing on defense.

This will be a very good UNC team this year, get ready.

Of course it is. It's the only offense Ol' Roy boy knows how to run.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Of course it is. It's the only offense Ol' Roy boy knows how to run.

Just saying it doesn't make it so.

Roy has always liked for his teams to look to run at every opportunity, but there are plenty of examples over the years of Roy's team's half court offense being very well coached.

[Wander]

Roy Williams teams have always finished well above the 90th percentile in speed in Division 1 during the years when kenpom's been tracking that (since 2002). Compare to Coach K, who's clearly been far more flexible in style. So yeah, it's a pretty fair thing to say that that's just the way Roy runs his offense regardless of personnel.

[COYS]

Roy Williams teams have always finished well above the 90th percentile in speed in Division 1 during the years when kenpom's been tracking that (since 2002). Compare to Coach K, who's clearly been far more flexible in style. So yeah, it's a pretty fair thing to say that that's just the way Roy runs his offense regardless of personnel.

If I'm not mistaken, I think someone on here, maybe Kedsy, analyzed this and found that Roy has actually increased his pace since arriving in Chapel Hill. He was more flexible with his Kansas teams (though still favoring a faster pace). On the one hand, the '05, '08, and '09 teams were both fast-paced and efficient. On the other hand, most of Roy's teams since '09 have been either poor or mediocre in offensive efficiency, with none of them cracking the top 10 in any of those years. The closest was a strong rank of 13th in '12. Actually, UNC has been far better on the defensive side of the ball than the offensive side of the ball, of late. People often think of K as a defensive coach and Roy as an offensive coach (pun intended), yet over the past five years, UNC has been a better defensive team and Duke has been a far better offensive team. I think it is perfectly fair to say that something has not been working for UNC on offense over the past few years. The fast pace seems like fair game as a point of criticism to me . . . especially considering the players that UNC has had.

[Wander]

If I'm not mistaken, I think someone on here, maybe Kedsy, analyzed this and found that Roy has actually increased his pace since arriving in Chapel Hill. He was more flexible with his Kansas teams (though still favoring a faster pace). On the one hand, the '05, '08, and '09 teams were both fast-paced and efficient. On the other hand, most of Roy's teams since '09 have been either poor or mediocre in offensive efficiency, with none of them cracking the top 10 in any of those years. The closest was a strong rank of 13th in '12. Actually, UNC has been far better on the defensive side of the ball than the offensive side of the ball, of late. People often think of K as a defensive coach and Roy as an offensive coach (pun intended), yet over the past five years, UNC has been a better defensive team and Duke has been a far better offensive team. I think it is perfectly fair to say that something has not been working for UNC on offense over the past few years. The fast pace seems like fair game as a point of criticism to me . . . especially considering the players that UNC has had.

I don't buy into the Roy being an offensive coach and K being a defensive coach stuff, I agree with you those are at best oversimplified and at worst plain wrong. I'm only talking about style of the offense though, not about quality of the offense. Roy has run basically the same stuff for the past 13 years: run really fast, go after offensive boards, don't shoot a lot of threes. Note that this does include his last couple years at Kansas. Maybe some of his 90's Kansas teams break that mold, but even if they do, it was over a decade ago. The offense has been the same from him for at least 13 years, regardless of his personnel.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I don't buy into the Roy being an offensive coach and K being a defensive coach stuff, I agree with you those are at best oversimplified and at worst plain wrong. I'm only talking about style of the offense though, not about quality of the offense. Roy has run basically the same stuff for the past 13 years: run really fast, go after offensive boards, don't shoot a lot of threes. Note that this does include his last couple years at Kansas. Maybe some of his 90's Kansas teams break that mold, but even if they do, it was over a decade ago. The offense has been the same from him for at least 13 years, regardless of his personnel.

Roy's teams will definitely push the ball at every opportunity. But to say that his teams can only run and that is all he can coach, is not accurate or fair.

If a break directly to the rim is not available, then they'll look to the secondary break. If that's not there, Roy's teams go into the half court with one thing in mind, get the ball to the post in scoring position for the high percentage shot. His teams always have the spacing and ball movement to get those good shots. That takes good coaching.

They'll shoot the 3, but I think he generally recruits spot up shooters, not usually guys that are known to create a 3 off the dribble. He places a high value on the fact that it better be a good shot. Personnel dictates how much his teams have the freedom to shoot 3's.

[Wander]

Roy's teams will definitely push the ball at every opportunity. But to say that his teams can only run and that is all he can coach, is not accurate or fair.

I agree with you that there is more to the offense than just "try a primary fast break, and if that fails just do whatever." All I'm saying is that said offense is basically the same every year. Which, to be fair, is kept in mind while recruiting, but UNC would still benefit a lot from just a little more flexibility.

[throatybeard]

And no offense to WHeat but this and the scandal is the reason I really don't give a flying rip about the potential of this team. The basketball has been ruined. Any win they get including over us won't mean a damn thing to me because they are a fraud program of cheaters. Given the scope of the 18 year long scandal to keep ineligible players legal to play, it is fair to ask how many other areas have they and do they cheat in. Recruiting for example. How many unknown violations there? Booster payments to players? It's a Pandora's box and we will never know the true scope and depth of the cheating or how far back it really goes. Game over.

This will be my one and only post in this thread as I simply don't care about their basketball program any longer. Karma says they should win nothing and lose tons of games, but that won't happen. Anything they win is meaningless to me and I hope they lose every game by 30.

Lets talk about the legit programs in the ACC like Louisville, NC State, Wake, FSU, Clemson, Pitt, BC and the like...

This, and also, why are we even talking about their MBB team in October, or at all, before about a week before we play them? Nobody's even played any basketball games that count.

I'm fortunate enough not to live in North Carolina, amongst these folks, so they're off my mind in the fall, until we play them in Football. Then, they're off my mind for another three weeks. I generally check their basketball game against Kentucky around 10 December, around the last TV timeout. That's usually a big game, so I'd like to know the score. Then they're off my mind again until I have to visit my family in Winston at Christmas, when, if I have the temerity to wear a Duke shirt, three or four Carolina fans are nasty to me, unprovoked, in Harris Teeter. Then, they're off my mind again until they start the internet hostilities on social media a week or so before the first MBB game.

(I mean, unless they're having the worst academic scandal in the history of the NCAA, with which they're totally going to get away. I think about them then, not that I want to).

Just stop thinking about them, y'all. I know it's hard if you have to get a prescription filled or your teeth cleaned or really have any sort of commercial interaction in the state of North Carolina. But otherwise, just pretend they don't exist. It improves one's life immeasurably. If you do have to think about them, pray that the SEC gets a wandering eye about fifteen years from now.

My perfect world would be one in which I never had to think about UNC-Chapel Hill at all, ever.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

...why are we even talking about their MBB team in October, or at all, before about a week before we play them? Nobody's even played any basketball games that count.

Because there are still basketball fans here that are interested in entertaining themselves by discussing the players and coaches and how a game is played on the court.

Not everyone is as burdened with irrational hatred of a rival fan base, it's only a game played with a ball.