View Poll Results: What should UNC's punishment be

Voters
108. You may not vote on this poll
  • All games from the past 15 years are stricken, including titles in 2005 and 2009

    27 25.00%
  • Ineligible for postseason play and lose half their scholarships for the next 5 years

    6 5.56%
  • Some combination of the two

    53 49.07%
  • Other

    22 20.37%
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Results 41 to 60 of 191
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Utah
    I expect the NCAA will force UNC to write Wisconsin on the board 100 times, effectively quadrupling the academic difficulty previously levied on its student athletes.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    1. For every semester in which a UNC team played with an athlete who would have been ineligible but for the paper classes, vacate those wins (and any titles that may have been garnered). They played with ineligible players, period.

    2. Post-season ban on all teams which used such a tainted player, for a year.

    3. Loss of 20% of scholarships in each such tainted sport, each year, for the next five years.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    UNC would be smart to self-impose something before the NCAA does, hoping that the NCAA will go along with it. But the gold that everyone has their eye on is that 2005 MBB banner.
    Bubba (I think) was quoted in the N&O this am saying no self-imposed sanctions. More sanctimonious sputtering. The ncaa has their 132 page report/evidence. It will take a while to sort out. If the cheaters do nothing, the ncaa really should be strict/heavy-handed and vacate (lots of) wins, bring down a banner or three (or more), remove scholarships (multiple years and multiple sports) and impose post-season bans. Not sure what those numbers should be realistically. Or if any of that will occur. I'll ponder some numbers over a Ymm, beer post or two this evening.
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    I'd also like to see UNC re-enroll the 3,100 students at no cost to the students, and provide them with the educational opportunity they were to have been afforded when they originally matriculated.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    I disagree. Penn State is a marquee, money-making football program and they gave them the death penalty.
    They did?

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Corey View Post
    I'd also like to see UNC re-enroll the 3,100 students at no cost to the students, and provide them with the educational opportunity they were to have been afforded when they originally matriculated.
    This is one of my larger questions...what happens to the sham degrees that were awarded? The accreditation group already had them on probation, is this enough of a bigger smoking gun? Will the university be forced to revoke degrees in order to maintain standing? I would love to see the university to say "we didn't do right by you, mr athlete, but we want to fix it. Come back and take real classes and get a real degree.
    1200. DDMF.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    How about

    Take away the NC banners (they can keep Helms), and employ Matt Doherty as head coach for the next 20 years, since he's the only coach who looked into this issue.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    I would love to see the university to say "we didn't do right by you, mr athlete, but we want to fix it. Come back and take real classes and get a real degree.
    To me, this is hugely important.

    The sort of disrespect shown to athletes at UNC--and well beyond, sadly--in funneling them through certain coursework (fictitious and otherwise) and doing it under the guise of making it easier for them, or accommodating them, or worse, educating them--is at the crux of the problem with big-time college athletics...but I suspect if we looked closely, we would see these problems well before college. The moment someone tells a child, "Don't worry about class, focus on X sport," we've done a disservice. The two can and should go hand in hand: sport should be an extension of, not replacement for, the classroom...even where athletics are played at the highest levels. If we can't do the latter, when we need to change the way we operate to make the latter a realistic possibility.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Corey View Post
    To me, this is hugely important.

    The sort of disrespect shown to athletes at UNC--and well beyond, sadly--in funneling them through certain coursework (fictitious and otherwise) and doing it under the guise of making it easier for them, or accommodating them, or worse, educating them--is at the crux of the problem with big-time college athletics...but I suspect if we looked closely, we would see these problems well before college. The moment someone tells a child, "Don't worry about class, focus on X sport," we've done a disservice. The two can and should go hand in hand: sport should be an extension of, not replacement for, the classroom...even where athletics are played at the highest levels. If we can't do the latter, when we need to change the way we operate to make the latter a realistic possibility.
    Posted in the other thread - looks like they are doing some things to make reparations to former students, although degrees stand regardless for anyone gone for over a year.

    http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/06/...oned.html?rh=1
    "There can BE only one."

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Corey View Post
    I'd also like to see UNC re-enroll the 3,100 students at no cost to the students, and provide them with the educational opportunity they were to have been afforded when they originally matriculated.
    I thought they already did this - they set up a way for students in the fake classes to retake them for free. But then there was little to no interest from any former students, so it just sort of fell by the wayside. As it turns out, people who take fake classes aren't really interested in taking real classes, even when offered the chance.

    (Googles...) yep, here's a link http://chapelboro.com/news/unc/stude...-afam-classes/

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    Un-doing or vacating results from past games has always felt like an empty exercise to me. I appreciate the idea that cheaters shouldn't profit from their bad acts, but the games are what they are - you can take down the banner but that has always felt to me like a technicality. As far as I'm concerned the 2005 NCAAT is an obvious joke at this point - it's almost harsher to make them leave the banner up next to the others.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    UNC would be smart to self-impose something before the NCAA does, hoping that the NCAA will go along with it. But the gold that everyone has their eye on is that 2005 MBB banner.
    Presumably, this comes in white. Should do the trick.
    as17-3.613_designorange.jpg

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Fellow poster Tom B sent this to me via email. It is a must, must, must read about what this scandal says about the NCAA.

    The column (by well-known and respected sports journalist Stewart Mandell) is incredibly blunt. It says this is a defining moment in NCAA enforcement.

    It’s standard practice these days to mock the NCAA for its antiquated rules and haphazard enforcement of them, but the North Carolina report does not involve tattoos for memorabilia, free hotel stays or agent payments. It details systemic abuse of the one area the NCAA purportedly holds most dear. Its mission statement, according to president Mark Emmert, is “to be an integral part of higher education and to focus on the development of our student-athletes.” Those Enterprise rental car commercials, those “going pro in something other than sports” PSAs, the obsession with APR scores and Graduation Success Rates — all reinforce the NCAA’s stated-though-not-always-followed contention that academics are paramount to the college athlete’s experience.

    So today, Emmert and the NCAA face a defining moment. What are they going to do about North Carolina? How do you appropriately reprimand a university whose employees spent 18 years making a mockery of higher education? Who put the competitive needs of athletics above the academic development of students? Who made “the most serious academic fraud violations in 20 years” — {Minnesota's} cheating basketball players — seem like child’s play when compared with the unfathomable scope of UNC’s “shadow curriculum.”
    I suspect it may take a week or three for the NCAA to digest this, but could we see truly massive penalties coming out of this? I mean, one could quite reasonably argue that this is the worst scandal in NCAA history (far worse than merely paying players). It is certainly the worst academic scandal in history, right? As Mandell notes, Minnesota got 1 year postseason ban, vacated wins, and reduced scholarships for a somewhat similar academic scandal (basketball staffers writing papers for players) a few years ago. The Carolina scandal is several orders of magnitude worse and more pervasive. How can the NCAA not bring freaking Mjolnir down on UNC for all this?

    -Jason "just read that column and imagine you are Mark Emmert as you read it. How can he not hit Carolina in a nearly unprecedented way? Could we see every single varsity sport get scholarship reductions and post-season bans?" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Could we see every single varsity sport get scholarship reductions and post-season bans?
    "No." - ESPN, exclusive media rightsholder for North Carolina and the rest of the Atlantic Coast Conference.

  14. #54
    I do not think there will be any punishment to Holes.

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL

    Punish them

    Why are we only concentrating on the 2005 championship? Isn't 2009 and for that matter 1993 included during the scandal? Didn't Hansborough himself take Swahili during his time at Chapel Hill? Just wondering why were only worried about 2005, I guess because of McCants and his admission that he didn't write some of his own work.

  16. #56
    I wish very serious punishments would be ahead for Holes.

    But I think I am too wishful, same as you guys. How dare NCAA do any damage to their honey?

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    I thought the Wainstein report would be a bombshell. Now the NCAA is going to lower the boom on UNC, including some major, major penalties going forward. How can they not? I mean, an academic administrator, not in any sense a faculty member, created and (easily) graded essentially no-requirement courses that were accepted for graduation and all other purposes. And all of this was done, as the advisory staff members and the administrator admit, to keep athletes eligible to play sports.

    Will I end up feeling sorry for UNC for the end of its athletic program? If it's the death penalty, maybe so!
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Urinal and Highlander,

    Thanks for posting the information above. I'll read all about that (seemingly excellent) aspect of UNC's response tonight. I really appreciate you bringing it to light.

    One of the worst aspects of this entire and unfortunate situation--loathe UNC though I do on a superficial level, I think we all want all student-athletes to have a better academic experience and result than this--is that a common (and perhaps accurate) response to this nationwide has been, "Yeah, but this happens almost everywhere."

    We must do better. Holding UNC accountable, while trying to remedy the past wrong of a stunted educational opportunity, seems like a necessary step in that direction.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Corey View Post
    a common (and perhaps accurate) response to this nationwide has been, "Yeah, but this happens almost everywhere."
    I wholeheartedly agree with the entirety of your post. I do want to address this argument put out by the apologists, though.

    This does not happen everywhere. It does not even happen in many places I would bet. We are not talking about easy courses. We are not talking about athletes taking easy schedules. We are talking about classes that did not actually exist, with grades given out by a non-faculty member, in a systematic scheme perpetrated over almost two decades with the full or tacit knowledge of dozens of administrators and agents of the athletic department.

    This is far beyond the claim that schools help athletes get through school. This is fudging the numbers to keep eligibility, plain and simple.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    I wholeheartedly agree with the entirety of your post. I do want to address this argument put out by the apologists, though.

    This does not happen everywhere. It does not even happen in many places I would bet. We are not talking about easy courses. We are not talking about athletes taking easy schedules. We are talking about classes that did not actually exist, with grades given out by a non-faculty member, in a systematic scheme perpetrated over almost two decades with the full or tacit knowledge of dozens of administrators and agents of the athletic department.

    This is far beyond the claim that schools help athletes get through school. This is fudging the numbers to keep eligibility, plain and simple.
    Good points OldPhiKap; Blanche Taylor Moore(black widow) poisoned her husbands, but does that mean Ole Roy's wife can poison him and not be charged? This argument is plain out stupid. GoDuke!

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