View Poll Results: What should UNC's punishment be

Voters
108. You may not vote on this poll
  • All games from the past 15 years are stricken, including titles in 2005 and 2009

    27 25.00%
  • Ineligible for postseason play and lose half their scholarships for the next 5 years

    6 5.56%
  • Some combination of the two

    53 49.07%
  • Other

    22 20.37%
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Results 1 to 20 of 191
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC

    What should UNC's punishment be?

    By now you've probably had a chance to digest the Wainstein report and subsequent reaction. It went much farther and exposed much more than most people thought it would. While some are still clamoring that it was not damning enough - it attempted to place all of the blame on Crowder, Nyan'goro, and to a lesser extent Welden, three people who conveniently are no longer employed by the university and two of whom have accepted plea bargains to avoid federal indictment; meanwhile exonerating all of the current coaching staff - it nevertheless was quite a bombshell to be dropped.

    So my question to the forum is, what should the school's punishment be? I'm speaking only in terms of basketball. You can answer this in a couple different ways. What punishment would make you as a Duke fan feel satisfied that they have paid the price for their cheating? What do you think would be fair, in comparison to punishments that have been handed down to other schools? What level of punishment would provide sufficient deterrent to other schools from cheating?

    Most fans seem to want option 1 - strike all the games during the period when the fake classes existed. Take down the banners. They were using ineligible players, so the games shouldn't count.

    The argument for option 2 would be that it would hurt them NOW, and therefore have a greater impact today than would removing things that already happened. They would essentially be receiving the death penalty, and their program would realistically be unable to compete for the foreseeable future. Similar to what Penn State received.

    What do you think?
    Last edited by UrinalCake; 10-22-2014 at 11:49 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    They should be forced to paint everything on their campus an ugly and garish color.

    It's hard to see the point in punishments aimed at the school. But coaches like Roy Williams, Sylvia Hatchell and Anson Dorrance that benefited from the eligibility scheme in documented ways but could not be bothered to raise the issue with the administration should be asked to announce their retirements within the year.

  3. #3
    I think vacating every win they've had for the past 18 years is a good start.

    I think post-season bans is appropriate. 1 year ban for each year of post-season that was ill-gotten. For example, if it is found women's soccer cheated in 7 seasons, they get a 7 season ban. If basketball was found to cheat for 15 seasons and made the NCAA in 12 of those (thanks Doh!) they get a 12 year ban.

    I think the same application should be made for student athletes that cheated. If 45 men's basketball players cheated, they should lose 45 basketball scholarships over a certain amount of time.

    Make the punishment directly related to the crime.

    Oh ya, and they should be made to leave the banners up but have to slap a big ol' red "VACATED" on them. Never let them forget.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    I will let UNC off with absolutely no penalty whatsoever, as long as they publicly admit that Dean Smith was a pompous fraud who set up this entire scheme because Duke won back-to-back National Championships in 1991 and 1992.

    Because, it's the damn truth. Political correctness be damned.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Ummm, could we set up some poll options that are actually real and not just the delusional fantasy of Duke/NC State fans?

    The NCAA is not going to take away half of Carolina's basketball scholarships for the next 5 years. They are not going to slap Carolina with a 4+ year post-season ban. Those are near death-penalty kind of steps and there is zero chance the NCAA treats a marquee, money-making program like UNC in that fashion.

    I guess it might be possible to see a large number of wins vacated, but they are not going to wipe out hundreds of games. It just isn't going to happen. I am not sure the evidence in the Wainstein report justifies that anyway. Did he specifically document that at least one cheating player was on the team every year?

    -Jason "Let me think a bit about some more realistic punishments..." Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  6. #6
    I thought this was a what SHOULD the punishment be, not what WILL the punishment be. Two very different questions.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Rougemont Nebulae
    I'm still not convinced that the NCAA has the strength of will to do what they SHOULD do. I'd almost be surprised if they asked for transcripts which they should. They can no longer hide behind the academic scandal excuse, which should've embarrassed them to start. The Wainstein report, with which Folt has concurred, has established that athletes were ineligible and that the athletic department shares culpability. We're talking about a culture of cheating--systemic--not just a few bad apples, even if the architect was solely Crowder. It should be the NCAA's responsibility now to establish exactly who was ineligible and penalize accordingly, vacating wins and titles purloined by teams with ineligible players. That would be by the very book the NCAA has writ, consistent with past judgements.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santa Cruz CA
    Compare the depth and breadth of the UNC scandal to that at Minnesota and the punishments they received:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univer...etball_scandal

    Of course nobody expects the NCAA to do the same thing they did in Minnesota, but they should.
    That would mean vacating games from 1993 onward and paying back a LOT of money gained from tournament appearances and bowl games.

  9. #9

    A fitting punishment for Glenwood Elementary?

    Take away recess? No popsicles for the next three Fridays? Whatever the modern equivalent of staying after school and banging the chalk out of the erasers is (cleaning the lint from inside the computer mouse?)?

    I would say cancel next year's book fair but, well, y'know ...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBlue View Post
    I'm still not convinced that the NCAA has the strength of will to do what they SHOULD do. I'd almost be surprised if they asked for transcripts which they should. They can no longer hide behind the academic scandal excuse, which should've embarrassed them to start. The Wainstein report, with which Folt has concurred, has established that athletes were ineligible and that the athletic department shares culpability. We're talking about a culture of cheating--systemic--not just a few bad apples, even if the architect was solely Crowder. It should be the NCAA's responsibility now to establish exactly who was ineligible and penalize accordingly, vacating wins and titles purloined by teams with ineligible players. That would be by the very book the NCAA has writ, consistent with past judgements.
    Very telling short para in N&O this morning. Swofford's only published comments are how long NCAA investigations take to complete. Essentially saying NCAA is the problem here. I think he can thwart the process- no further penalties is my guess.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Raleigh
    As much as I would like to see a 30 ban on pastels and having UNC be known as a girls soccer school ONLY! (that notion amuses me); I'd forgive the NCAA if they tried to do something really thoughtful and progressive here.

    This could be an opportunity, to say, "OK who else is doing this... come forward now and regardless of how deep and severe it is - all will get the same "light-ish" punishment. If we find out later you are doing this we are busting you down to Div III - no questions asked"

    If the NCAA did this RIGHT, they could use it as a basis to really clean things up and put the emphasis back on the student mission. In fact, this type of action *may* be their 1st and best hope to avoid paying players at some point in the future.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    The NCAA isn't worried about UNC. They are worried about losing their business model. All it would take would be for a few of the football powers and a few of the basketball powers to ask themselves: "why are we letting the NCAA get all that money when we could just get it ourselves?"


    giving UNC some HARD punishment would just feed into the fear that the big athletic-driven schools resent anyway...
    "One POSSIBLE future. From your point of view... I don't know tech stuff.".... Kyle Reese

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    ol' roy, fedora and the entire unc administration should be forced to stand on their heads in a stagnant river of poo for all eternity (Chansky too!)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    ol' roy, fedora and the entire unc administration should be forced to stand on their heads in a stagnant river of poo for all eternity (Chansky too!)
    At very least they should be banned from choosing restaurants for team meals for the next 18-years.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Ok, which would bother Carolina fans more:

    1- A couple hundred of Dean's wins are removed from his record, making him a distant also-ran in the winningest coach race that he once led
    2- A couple hundred of UNC's wins are removed making it pretty much impossible for them to jockey with Kentucky for the all-time winningest program
    3- The 2005 national championship is vacated, banner removed and record books expunged
    4- They get a 1 year ban on postseason play starting now
    5- They lose 2 scholarships for the next 4 years

    I think #4 or #5 would be a lot more troubling to them, though if Dean was still #1 in wins (not #3 to Knight and K) they might care a lot more about preserving his legacy at the top.

    -Jason
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    I think the 2005 banner definitely needs to come down. Even if only one banner gets yanked from the rafters, I'll be happy. The UNC faithful cry about how it's all in the past, no sense in punishing the future. Fine, so be it. The NCAA still should punish their history.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    after reading IC for about 2 mins, i'd say "all of the above"...
    "One POSSIBLE future. From your point of view... I don't know tech stuff.".... Kyle Reese

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Ok, which would bother Carolina fans more:

    1- A couple hundred of Dean's wins are removed from his record, making him a distant also-ran in the winningest coach race that he once led
    2- A couple hundred of UNC's wins are removed making it pretty much impossible for them to jockey with Kentucky for the all-time winningest program
    3- The 2005 national championship is vacated, banner removed and record books expunged
    4- They get a 1 year ban on postseason play starting now
    5- They lose 2 scholarships for the next 4 years

    I think #4 or #5 would be a lot more troubling to them, though if Dean was still #1 in wins (not #3 to Knight and K) they might care a lot more about preserving his legacy at the top.

    -Jason
    Krzyzewski, Boeheim, Calipari and Self are making #1 and #2 a reality regardless of punishment, so that doesn't seem like much of a penalty.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by wilko View Post
    As much as I would like to see a 30 ban on pastels and having UNC be known as a girls soccer school ONLY! (that notion amuses me); I'd forgive the NCAA if they tried to do something really thoughtful and progressive here.
    Didn't the report contain some reference to women's soccer players also being steered toward the phony classes?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    The NCAA isn't worried about UNC. They are worried about losing their business model. All it would take would be for a few of the football powers and a few of the basketball powers to ask themselves: "why are we letting the NCAA get all that money when we could just get it ourselves?"


    giving UNC some HARD punishment would just feed into the fear that the big athletic-driven schools resent anyway...
    What are you talking about? All the football money is going to the power conferences now.

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