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  1. #21
    Very disappointing, but again, not surprising. Point all the fingers at "advisors" and spare all coaches and athletic administrators any culpability whatsoever. Put it all in a long, wordy report to make it seem like a thorough job. Announce that you got rid of those few rotten apple advisors and proceed as usual. Nothing new. And as we all know, the unc faithful will buy this hook, line, and sinker. I doubt the NCAA will do anything either. Disgusting.
       

  2. #22
    what about the advantages as a result of these athletes being kept eligible? isn't it a loss of institutional control?

  3. #23

    Importance of the Timeline

    Given the start in 1993, I'm surprised there isn't more discussion about the head basketball coach and the athletic director who were in charge then. I was convinced that the report would try to avoid any hint of the Dean years and the Swofford years. Interesting...

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by devilsadvocate85 View Post
    Given the start in 1993, I'm surprised there isn't more discussion about the head basketball coach and the athletic director who were in charge then. I was convinced that the report would try to avoid any hint of the Dean years and the Swofford years. Interesting...
    Makes you wonder what changed in 1993 that they needed fraudulent courses.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by sammy3469 View Post
    Makes you wonder what changed in 1993 that they needed fraudulent courses.
    According to the report, Nyangoro became dept chair and let Debbie Crowder do her thing. Would have happened sooner had she been able to pull it off.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by sammy3469 View Post
    Makes you wonder what changed in 1993 that they needed fraudulent courses.
    1991 and 1992 happened.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by TKG View Post
    1991 and 1992 happened.
    But would 1993 have happened without AFAM?

    It seems the answer is clearly no, but does the report make it clear?

  8. #28

    Winner

    Quote Originally Posted by TKG View Post
    1991 and 1992 happened.

    Ding ding ding... We have a winner

    Best quote so far

  9. #29

    Basketball

    FROM report:
    "Williams, Holladay and Walden brought the same oversight process they had used in Kansas.
    Walden focused on keeping up with the players’ classes and monitoring their eligibility. He provided
    regular reports about academic progress to Holladay, who would counsel and/or discipline players
    with academic issues. Holladay, in turn, reported to Williams on the general status of player
    academics.

    Walden acknowledged knowing about irregular aspects of the paper classes, including that
    Crowder was doing at least some of the paper grading.
    When asked whether he shared this
    information with Coaches Holladay or Williams, he could not recall doing so.
    Both of the coaches
    claim that they never learned from Walden or anyone else that there was a question about faculty
    involvement in the classes or that Debby Crowder was doing the grading."

    In those "regular reports," what were Williams, Holladay and Walden discussing?
    If Walden was so trusted and knew of the fraudulent classes; why did he not alert Williams?
    Since Walden appears to be complicit in that he knew, but chose remain silent; will he be fired or disciplined?
    Walden..."He could not recall doing so." That is NOT the same as "I did NOT!"

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Maybe one of the nine that have been "terminated or disciplined" will now come forth with something juicy for the NCAA. Without a job to protect, they may enjoy some freedom.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  11. #31
    From N&O website: "Folt declined to identify the nine employees being terminated or under disciplinary review, citing personnel laws."

    The story is spreading rather quickly through local and national media, as I've now seen it on msn, yahoo, espn, business insider.
       

  12. #32

    Boxill named

    Among the several issues involved in what Chancellor Folt today openly acknowledged was both an academic and athletic scandal, our attention has and will presumably continue to be drawn to the two largest: whether UNC will be able to overcome the hypocrisy of "the Carolina Way" to reestablish its stature as a first-rate university, and whether the NCAA will see fit to sanction the bball program for failure of oversight.

    On what most here will see as a minor issue -- but one which will cause no little embarrassment among UNC faculty -- Wainstein specifically named recent UNC Faculty Chair Jan Boxill as having direct knowledge of what was going on. To quote the Wainstein Report: "Jan Boxill was fully aware of the lax work requirements and grading standards in the paper classes and that Crowder played a substantive and substantial role in the classes and the grading."

    It's actually worse, as this article re the W Report summarizes:

    http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201...n-boxill.html#.

    Don't know exactly what disciplinary action will be forthcoming. Possibly fired for ethical lapses, presumably her, um, specialty.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    it says people in the advising department not only steered athletes towards these classes to maintain eligibility, but in fact worked with the instructors to ensure the classes were created and that the athletes got the requisite grades.

    it may not be the athletics department proper (that was always going to be hard to prove), but IMO, enough to demonstrate it was an athletics problem.
    The sport-specific advisors were part of the athletic department proper.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by dukebluesincebirth View Post
    From N&O website: "Folt declined to identify the nine employees being terminated or under disciplinary review, citing personnel laws."

    The story is spreading rather quickly through local and national media, as I've now seen it on msn, yahoo, espn, business insider.
    I think the public take on this, outside the control of UNC spin, will play an important part on whether the NCAA's hand is forced here. And, FWIW, Yahoo does not read well for the Heels:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-...181214478.html

    (Only one I checked so far because someone sent it to me)

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santa Cruz CA
    Lot of good stuff in the report for the NCAA to work with if they pull their heads out of the sand....

    Page 62...

    Impact Analysis Findings
    A total of 2,152 individual students who enrolled in the paper classes were included in this impact analysis. Of that number, 329 students (including 169 student-athletes) had at least one semester in which the grade they received in their paper class either pushed or kept their GPA above 2.0. In other words, for at least one semester in their college career, each of those students had an actual cumulative GPA above a 2.0 but a recalculated GPA (excluding the paper class grade(s))below a 2.0. This number includes 123 football players, 15 men’s basketball players, eight women’s basketball players, and 26 Olympic sport athletes. Of that number, we identified 81 students who earned degrees from Chapel Hill whose recalculated final GPA excluding the grade(s) from their paper class or classes was less than the 2.0 required to graduate.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by BigWayne View Post
    Lot of good stuff in the report for the NCAA to work with if they pull their heads out of the sand....

    Page 62...

    Impact Analysis Findings
    A total of 2,152 individual students who enrolled in the paper classes were included in this impact analysis. Of that number, 329 students (including 169 student-athletes) had at least one semester in which the grade they received in their paper class either pushed or kept their GPA above 2.0. In other words, for at least one semester in their college career, each of those students had an actual cumulative GPA above a 2.0 but a recalculated GPA (excluding the paper class grade(s))below a 2.0. This number includes 123 football players, 15 men’s basketball players, eight women’s basketball players, and 26 Olympic sport athletes. Of that number, we identified 81 students who earned degrees from Chapel Hill whose recalculated final GPA excluding the grade(s) from their paper class or classes was less than the 2.0 required to graduate.
    "'Boom goes the dynamite"

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santa Cruz CA
    Page 72:

    Men’s Basketball Personnel
    Chapel Hill had four different head men’s basketball coaches during the period in which the AFAM paper courses were offered. During the Dean Smith era (1961-1997), there were 54 basketball player enrollments in AFAM independent studies. In the three years of Coach Bill Guthridge’s tenure (1997-2000), there were 17 basketball enrollments in paper classes. There were 42 enrollments in paper classes under Coach Matt Doherty (2000-2003) and 167 under Coach Roy Williams (2003-present).

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by BigWayne View Post
    Lot of good stuff in the report for the NCAA to work with if they pull their heads out of the sand....

    Page 62...

    Impact Analysis Findings
    A total of 2,152 individual students who enrolled in the paper classes were included in this impact analysis. Of that number, 329 students (including 169 student-athletes) had at least one semester in which the grade they received in their paper class either pushed or kept their GPA above 2.0. In other words, for at least one semester in their college career, each of those students had an actual cumulative GPA above a 2.0 but a recalculated GPA (excluding the paper class grade(s))below a 2.0. This number includes 123 football players, 15 men’s basketball players, eight women’s basketball players, and 26 Olympic sport athletes. Of that number, we identified 81 students who earned degrees from Chapel Hill whose recalculated final GPA excluding the grade(s) from their paper class or classes was less than the 2.0 required to graduate.
    Amen. Plenty of evidence in the W Report that exemplifies, and indeed is part of the reason for, Chancellor Folt's comment that "I didn't know" is "not being accountable."

  19. #39

    Do the math on those numbers -- WOW

    Quote Originally Posted by BigWayne View Post
    Page 72:

    Men’s Basketball Personnel
    Chapel Hill had four different head men’s basketball coaches during the period in which the AFAM paper courses were offered. During the Dean Smith era (1961-1997), there were 54 basketball player enrollments in AFAM independent studies. In the three years of Coach Bill Guthridge’s tenure (1997-2000), there were 17 basketball enrollments in paper classes. There were 42 enrollments in paper classes under Coach Matt Doherty (2000-2003) and 167 under Coach Roy Williams (2003-present).
    Dean Smith -- 4 years, 54 enrollments (13.5 per year on a roster of 15 players)
    Guthridge -- 3 years, 17 enrollments (just under 6 per year)
    Doherty -- 3 years, 42 enrollments (14 per year)
    Ol' Roy -- 11 years, 167 enrollments (15+ per year)

    Did Guthridge know something and do something about it, or did the research miss a bunch of classes? The numbers for the other 3 coaches are remarkably consistent. An average of 1 phony class per player per year.
    Last edited by devilsadvocate85; 10-22-2014 at 04:14 PM.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by plimnko View Post
    what about the advantages as a result of these athletes being kept eligible? isn't it a loss of institutional control?
    "Loss of institutional control," if I understand it correctly is a term of art that largely applies to the compliance office. It basically means that the office was made aware of a possible violation and took no action.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

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