UNC Athletics Scandal - Wainstein Report

[Troublemaker]

And here I was believing all my life that the only perfect person to ever walk the planet was Jesus Christ. Who knew there is also a "Roy Williams of Nazareth" who has also walked the earth sinless?

Per Gary Parrish:

I pulled three different ACC coaches aside, offered them anonymity and asked if there's any way their players could for years be involved in no-show classes without them knowing. All three, without hesitation, said the only way a head coach at this level wouldn't know is if he went out of his way to not know, point being that Williams' colleagues don't seem to think he's nearly as naive as Williams would like the rest of the world to believe.

[Henderson]

I was watching the ESPN conversations with Roy today, and I have a question that I hope won't invite any low-brow personal comments. Here it is:

I know all our faces are asymmetrical. But are Roy's eyes oddly so? In the clips I watched, it looks like his left eye is about ½ inch higher than the right. I actually found it distracting when watching the interviews.

Please, no lame inappropriate jokes about this. I'm just curious whether this is new or just the way Roy's facial asymmetry has always shown itself.

Here's what I'm talking about.

[ricks68]

I was watching the ESPN conversations with Roy today, and I have a question that I hope won't invite any low-brow personal comments. Here it is:

I know all our faces are asymmetrical. But are Roy's eyes oddly so? In the clips I watched, it looks like his left eye is about ½ inch higher than the right. I actually found it distracting when watching the interviews.

Please, no lame inappropriate jokes about this. I'm just curious whether this is new or just the way Roy's facial asymmetry has always shown itself.

Here's what I'm talking about.

Nah. Methinks you just have it in for Roy. (Yeah, sure.) I did read the comments beneath the article and find that any respect I had for any person's right to their own "opinion" just went down the drain. I mean, like, what is it with these people? Have they no respect for the truth? UNC cheated. The report proves it. Enough with the deniers. Enough.

ricks

[NSDukeFan]

Just so no one misses this little tidbit... note that Roy not only throws the entire Academic Advising Department under the bus, but also says he "never saw those people".

I just...

I mean...

What...

Oh hell, I give up.

This should affect recruiting for him. I expect most coaches would not be telling parents of recruits that once the kids leave the gym that they are on their own and Roy wouldn't have a clue what they are up to. I wonder if parents of former players feel betrayed and/or lied to.

[BD80]

... I hope won't invite any low-brow ... comments. ... it looks like [ol' roy's] left eye is about ½ inch higher than the right. ...

But that makes his right brow lower!

Frankly, I've never found anything about ol' roy to be on the level. Maybe he is so slippery, that his facial features have trouble staying in place.

[arnie]

This should affect recruiting for him. I expect most coaches would not be telling parents of recruits that once the kids leave the gym that they are on their own and Roy wouldn't have a clue what they are up to. I wonder if parents of former players feel betrayed and/or lied to.

Don't have the link, but another N&O article on Roy,'s "take" this morning. He is defiant (of course) and says he will not be fired over this as he did nothing wrong. I'm convinced he's such a great con artist that recruiting will not be impacted. Some people are so amazing at sales that that it just doesn't matter about the poor product they're hawking. Sad, but I suspect he'll convince parents that the whole mess is a fabrication aimed at pulling down the AFAM dept. he knows how to play the victim and that can work if he plays it right.

[MarkD83]

The problem with Bubba and Roy is the first thing to do before starting reforms is to admit there is an issue. I hope SACS and the NCAA are listening...because with every denial they should be thinking that the penalty has to get worse because with every denial there should be less confidence that this won't happen again.

[jv001]

And here I was believing all my life that the only perfect person to ever walk the planet was Jesus Christ. Who knew there is also a "Roy Williams of Nazareth" who has also walked the earth sinless?

I tried to spork you, but I've got to spread some sporks around. It seems old roy is either the biggest idiot or the biggest liar on the planet. No, I think he's both. GoDuke!

[devildeac]

You left out the obvious choice-- more no-show classes.

They must really be kicking themselves.

Silly me. Sorry.

[Kedsy]

Per Gary Parrish:

I pulled three different ACC coaches aside, offered them anonymity and asked if there's any way their players could for years be involved in no-show classes without them knowing. All three, without hesitation, said the only way a head coach at this level wouldn't know is if he went out of his way to not know, point being that Williams' colleagues don't seem to think he's nearly as naive as Williams would like the rest of the world to believe.

I'm glad a high profile writer has finally made this point, which is sort of obvious to everyone outside of Chapel Hill. It remains for the NCAA to do whatever it's going to do and then watch the world explode in one direction or the other.

[OldPhiKap]

I'm glad a high profile writer has finally made this point, which is sort of obvious to everyone outside of Chapel Hill. It remains for the NCAA to do whatever it's going to do and then watch the world explode in one direction or the other.

Which raises the strategic question for the NCAA -- do you come down hard on UNC and upset Swofford; or do you let UNC slide and thereby condone other schools to do this exact same thing?

"The whole world is watching"

[Duvall]

Which raises the strategic question for the NCAA -- do you come down hard on UNC and upset Swofford; or do you let UNC slide and thereby condone other schools to do this exact same thing?

"The whole world is watching"

Not sure we can assume that other schools want the NCAA to come down hard on UNC - I doubt they like the idea that their programs could be smashed by academic advisors cutting corners.

[Kfanarmy]

Just think how those funds could have been used more wisely for research, education, merit-based scholarships, health care and the list could go on.

or to offer a makeup class or two to finally fulfill the degrees of 3k students...

[oldnavy]

Not sure we can assume that other schools want the NCAA to come down hard on UNC - I doubt they like the idea that their programs could be smashed by academic advisors cutting corners.

I would agree with you if this were simply a matter of a few corners being cut...

However, what UNC did for 18 years was build a system to keep athletes eligible without having any corners to cut. It is like they built a house with round rooms so they couldn't get cornered. But it failed...

[UrinalCake]

I know all our faces are asymmetrical. But are Roy's eyes oddly so? In the clips I watched, it looks like his left eye is about ½ inch higher than the right. I actually found it distracting when watching the interviews.

Well, we all know Roy is two-faced. So this shouldn't be a surprise.

[uh_no]

Which raises the strategic question for the NCAA -- do you come down hard on UNC and upset Swofford; or do you let UNC slide and thereby condone other schools to do this exact same thing?

"The whole world is watching"

not sure the NCAA cares what swofford thinks here...and what's swofford going to do? do you think the rest of the ACC schools want to see UNC go off the hook? Swofford has to represent all the schools in the league here, not just UNC...and there's 14 schools that are probably quite alright with forcing UNC to play by the rules they all do.

[devildeac]

Which raises the strategic question for the NCAA -- do you come down hard on UNC and upset Swofford; or do you let UNC slide and thereby condone other schools to do this exact same thing?

"The whole world is watching"

I hope this link is correct:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUmVSaGaUpI

[oldnavy]

What is hard for folks that are not as close to UNC or have spent years dealing with the arrogance that emanates from that place is that UNC really believes the crap they say about themselves.

Their reality is that UNC never does wrong, EVER!

That is why Roy can sit there in front of the media, tear up and claim that he believes that they did the right thing... HE FREAKIN BELIEVES IT... he isn't lying in the sense he knows what he is saying is false... he doesn't think he has done anything other than be, well in his words perfect.

The brainwashed UNC faithful will never understand what is going on, because in their reality, UNC is perfect. Bubba rationalizes the fraud by pointing to how wonderful UNC is in all the areas where they didn't cheat... "look, we didn't cheat a whole lot more than we did, so we are on balance... wonderful!!"

They really believe that they are above making errors, and when something does happen to go wrong, it has to be either a rouge employee or the system is flawed, or Blah, Blah, Blah...

That is why I have chosen to never discuss these issues with UNC fans... it is pointless.

They are basically insane.

[Henderson]

Not sure we can assume that other schools want the NCAA to come down hard on UNC - I doubt they like the idea that their programs could be smashed by academic advisors cutting corners.

I doubt other schools feel this way. It's not like the lesson here is that any school with the isolated errant academic transgression will be painted with the same brush.

Other schools have nothing to worry about if they appropriately monitor their programs. Even if there is a default, quickly acknowledged when it comes to light, people will understand. If they don't/can't/won't appropriately monitor their programs, they get no sympathy from me. It's not the outlier bad-apple beyond their control they need to worry about. These things happen, and if you monitor and self-report, people will understand and not blame the university or coach. But the complete failure to have a monitoring program in place is avoidable. Even worse if your program is channeling athletes into sham courses to maintain eligibility. Just don't do those things, and the rogue academic advisor is a non-issue.

Not all slopes are slippery.

[OldPhiKap]

What is hard for folks that are not as close to UNC or have spent years dealing with the arrogance that emanates from that place is that UNC really believes the crap they say about themselves.

Their reality is that UNC never does wrong, EVER!

That is why Roy can sit there in front of the media, tear up and claim that he believes that they did the right thing... HE FREAKIN BELIEVES IT... he isn't lying in the sense he knows what he is saying is false... he doesn't think he has done anything other than be, well in his words perfect.

The brainwashed UNC faithful will never understand what is going on, because in their reality, UNC is perfect. Bubba rationalizes the fraud by pointing to how wonderful UNC is in all the areas where they didn't cheat... "look, we didn't cheat a whole lot more than we did, so we are on balance... wonderful!!"

They really believe that they are above making errors, and when something does happen to go wrong, it has to be either a rouge employee or the system is flawed, or Blah, Blah, Blah...

That is why I have chosen to never discuss these issues with UNC fans... it is pointless.

They are basically insane.

1. Carolina always does things the right way.

2. Carolina did X.

3. X is therefore right.


This logical fallacy reminds me of Nixon, when he said (paraphrasing) that he did not do anything wrong, because everything the President does is lawful.