Godfathers of Duke

[CameronBornAndBred]

Cool ESPN article looking back at K's '82 class.

"That was the class that set the template, the model was established," Krzyzewski said. "Not just the caliber of player, but the caliber of person, and that's what we've tried to do over the years is try to replicate that."

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...zewski-success

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Cool ESPN article looking back at K's '82 class.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...zewski-success

Great article. Sporked.

Interesting perspective to see how it was one of the last in-tact four-year.#1 recruiting classes that will ever been seen. I liked this quote from Bilas: "We didn't stick around because we were of better character or valued education more than these guys. We stuck around because there wasn't the money. If there was the money, Johnny Dawkins would have had a tough time saying no."

I think it's easy to look back and say "wow, players back then had so much more character because they valued education and stuck around four years." Reality is, most of them would have relished the opportunities that today's players have.

Also, excellent points in the article about how today's top players all know each other - if not from playing together, at least from reputation and having seen each other at camps, AAU tourneys, and the like. Amazing to imagine that only 30 years ago, they didn't even know what other top players looked like. You can say what you will about the strangeness that might create, but it certainly has to be an asset when you have a group of kids coming in together like K does this year.

[devil84]

Great article. Sporked.

Interesting perspective to see how it was one of the last in-tact four-year.#1 recruiting classes that will ever been seen. I liked this quote from Bilas: "We didn't stick around because we were of better character or valued education more than these guys. We stuck around because there wasn't the money. If there was the money, Johnny Dawkins would have had a tough time saying no."

I think it's easy to look back and say "wow, players back then had so much more character because they valued education and stuck around four years." Reality is, most of them would have relished the opportunities that today's players have.

Also, excellent points in the article about how today's top players all know each other - if not from playing together, at least from reputation and having seen each other at camps, AAU tourneys, and the like. Amazing to imagine that only 30 years ago, they didn't even know what other top players looked like. You can say what you will about the strangeness that might create, but it certainly has to be an asset when you have a group of kids coming in together like K does this year.

While that recruiting class would have relished the opportunities today's players have, that class most certainly valued education. All of the recruited players were true student-athletes and took their studies seriously. One, Weldon Williams, was a BME. A BME! After Duke, Johnny Dawkins and David Henderson stayed in basketball and coached at the collegiate level. Mark Alarie went on to get an MBA at Wharton after his NBA and short-lived coaching career ended. Weldon Williams became an engineer, and later returned to a theological seminary. Jay Bilas got his JD at Duke while coaching. Bill Jackman, who transferred back home to Nebraska after his freshman year also got his MBA after his basketball career was over. Four of the six have advanced degrees. That's pretty impressive.

But don't let Jay fool you. While these guys would have relished being able to jump to the NBA early, they were all real students and valued their education. And they were also pretty impressive athletes.

As far as not knowing what anybody looked like coming in...nobody knew anybody when they got to college back then. You didn't spend hours over the summer stalkinglooking up your new roommate and future colleagues. You didn't know what everybody else did and had preconceived notions of who you were going to school with. You showed up, poured over the pic book to find out who the cute guys/girls are, then set out to meet your peers...pretty much as equals, without knowing the impressive feats that got them into Duke. Same goes for the basketball court. After watching my kids in their undergrad and grad school endeavors, yeah, I'm pretty glad I went to school in the digital stone age. (Personal computers came out my freshman year.)

[cato]

But don't let Jay fool you. While these guys would have relished being able to jump to the NBA early, they were all real students and valued their education. And they were also pretty impressive athletes.

I know that you are not implying that current Duke students who play MBB are anything less than real students who value their education. That would be disrespectful to both the kids and the staff that recruited them.

In all likelihood, Bilas would have followed a similar career path these days as he did years ago. JD is a different story -- and that is why Jay singled him out. The money factor is not one to scoff at, or take lightly. It is not a matter of having a little extra walking around money. It could be enough to change the financial trajectory of a family for generations to come. That is not an opportunity that comes around for many people these days.

Might JD have stayed longer these days, like Jason Williams did almost two decades later? Perhaps. But that is an unknowable thing. The only thing we know is that the calculation is different these days. And that no one like Dawkins has stayed in college for 4 years under the current financial structure of the NBA.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

And that no one like Dawkins has stayed in college for 4 years under the current financial structure of the NBA.

Does Doug McDermott count?

[subzero02]

If McDermott counts(#11 pick in the 2014 draft) then Battier counts too (#6 pick in 2001). Battier's draft was top heavy with high school players, some of whom were spectacular flops. That being said, if the 2001 draft were done again, he'd probably still go around #5 or #6.Dawkins was the #10 pick in 86. I don't know how each would've faired in terms of draft position if they had left after their junior years... I think Battier could still have been a lottery pick in 2000; I am not so sure about Mcdermott in 2013. Would Dawkins have been a lottery selection in 85?

[cato]

If McDermott counts(#11 pick in the 2014 draft) then Battier counts too (#6 pick in 2001). Battier's draft was top heavy with high school players, some of whom were spectacular flops. That being said, if the 2001 draft were done again, he'd probably still go around #5 or #6.Dawkins was the #10 pick in 86. I don't know how each would've faired in terms of draft position if they had left after their junior years... I think Battier could still have been a lottery pick in 2000; I am not so sure about Mcdermott in 2013. Would Dawkins have been a lottery selection in 85?

Battier does not count because the economics were different.

My instinct is to dismiss McDermott, but maybe I'm glorifying Dawkins too much, and underestimating McDermott. I sure would like to have seen Dawkins play the modern college game, though.

[subzero02]

Battier does not count because the economics were different.

My instinct is to dismiss McDermott, but maybe I'm glorifying Dawkins too much, and underestimating McDermott. I sure would like to have seen Dawkins play the modern college game, though.

If you are referring to the rookie salary cap/pay scale, then Battier and Mcdermott made their draft decisions under similar economic structures. The rookie pay scale has been part of the NBA cba since the 95-96 season.

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2002

[sagegrouse]

While that recruiting class would have relished the opportunities today's players have, that class most certainly valued education. All of the recruited players were true student-athletes and took their studies seriously. One, Weldon Williams, was a BME. A BME! After Duke, Johnny Dawkins and David Henderson stayed in basketball and coached at the collegiate level. Mark Alarie went on to get an MBA at Wharton after his NBA and short-lived coaching career ended. Weldon Williams became an engineer, and later returned to a theological seminary. Jay Bilas got his JD at Duke while coaching. Bill Jackman, who transferred back home to Nebraska after his freshman year also got his MBA after his basketball career was over. Four of the six have advanced degrees. That's pretty impressive.

Presumably a biomedical engineer, although graduate work at the Budapesti Műszaki és Gazdaságtudományi Egyetem would have been my second guess.

[devil84]

I know that you are not implying that current Duke students who play MBB are anything less than real students who value their education. That would be disrespectful to both the kids and the staff that recruited them.

In all likelihood, Bilas would have followed a similar career path these days as he did years ago. JD is a different story -- and that is why Jay singled him out. The money factor is not one to scoff at, or take lightly. It is not a matter of having a little extra walking around money. It could be enough to change the financial trajectory of a family for generations to come. That is not an opportunity that comes around for many people these days.

Might JD have stayed longer these days, like Jason Williams did almost two decades later? Perhaps. But that is an unknowable thing. The only thing we know is that the calculation is different these days. And that no one like Dawkins has stayed in college for 4 years under the current financial structure of the NBA.

Let me be very clear: I implied absolutely nothing about any other student-athletes, current or former, at Duke or other schools, except those I listed. I talked only about six players recruited to Duke that arrived in 1982. Jay Bilas seemed to be implying that he and his teammates didn't prioritize academics as highly as basketball. That all graduated in four years and four of the six have advanced degrees belies that idea.

I do believe that those six players exemplify what Coach K looks for in a recruit: exceptional athletes and a keen interest in academics and learning. I imagine that those six are the yardstick by which K judges recruits. Not only were those six players excellent athletes that highly value and actively sought their degrees, they were genuinely nice kids (still are) both on and off the court. They truly embraced the scholar-athlete ideal. The other teammates on K's first four teams (the only four I was a part of) also embraced the scholar-athlete ideal as well as being really good people, but, as they aren't a part of The Godfathers of Duke, any omission of them or other past/future players in this simply because the topic of the thread is The Godfathers of Duke.

Like you say, Bilas would have followed a similar career path these days as he did years ago, as would the others. But would JD have become a collegiate head coach if he had jumped to the NBA? Like Sidney Lowe at NCSU, he would likely have to finish his degree before he could take a head coaching job. Could he be hired as an assistant coach if he doesn't have his degree -- especially if he's missing three years?

We can't take the kids from the 70s and 80s and compare them to today's culture of one-and-dones. Ever the optimist (and a HUGE fan of Johnny), I'd like to say that he'd buck the system and get his degree. But the lure of not just the money but the dream of playing in the NBA would probably have taken him early. Which, to me, is sad, because the atmosphere of the NBA regular season game I attended (n=1, so it's meaningless), is NOTHING like playing in Cameron.

[TKG]

I am reminded about the recruiting class that got away and I think it might have been the one just before the Godfathers. K pursued and came in second for the services of Chris Mullins, Bill Wennington, Uwe Blab and Jim Miller. I think those guys were Class of 1985.

[hood7]

Johnny Dawkins' commitment to Duke absolutely changed the course of Duke Basketball. Pretty obvious to anyone that was around in those days.

[Kimist]

Johnny Dawkins' commitment to Duke absolutely changed the course of Duke Basketball. Pretty obvious to anyone that was around in those days.

Absolutely. One of the best athletes ever to don the Duke blue.

(And my first year for season tickets was G-man's senior year.)

While I'm here, one of my favorite questions: Who will be the next Duke basketball player to have his jersey retired?

Yeah, things are different now. . .

k

[subzero02]

Absolutely. One of the best athletes ever to don the Duke blue.

(And my first year for season tickets was G-man's senior year.)

While I'm here, one of my favorite questions: Who will be the next Duke basketball player to have his jersey retired?

Yeah, things are different now. . .

k

Jahlil Okafor when he graduates in 2022 after winning NPOY, an NCAA Championship and Final Four MOP in 2015... Or Luke Kennard in 2019.

[nmduke2001]

This morning on Mike and Mike, John Salley said that he, Johnny Dawkins and Len Bias had all agreed (amongst themselves) to go to Maryland. Johnny changed his mind, so John Salley changed his too. That decision, likely, altered two programs forever.

[Edouble]

This morning on Mike and Mike, John Salley said that he, Johnny Dawkins and Len Bias had all agreed (amongst themselves) to go to Maryland. Johnny changed his mind, so John Salley changed his too. That decision, likely, altered two programs forever.

Not three? Which two are you meaning?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Not three? Which two are you meaning?

Not whichever school Salley went to, I guess

[ramdevil]

This morning on Mike and Mike, John Salley said that he, Johnny Dawkins and Len Bias had all agreed (amongst themselves) to go to Maryland. Johnny changed his mind, so John Salley changed his too. That decision, likely, altered two programs forever.

Is this the football quarterback John Salley? Or someone different?

-ramdevil

[CameronBornAndBred]

Jahlil Okafor when he graduates in 2022 after winning NPOY, an NCAA Championship and Final Four MOP in 2015... Or Luke Kennard in 2019.

You still have a chance to go two for four on your predictions.

[nmduke2001]

Not three? Which two are you meaning?

Duke and MD. Johnny made Duke a power. Bias, Dawkins and Salley at MD might have won a championship and possibly made MD a great PROGRAM. John Sally also said that Len Bias would have been the best player ever. He said that Bias could do anything Jordan could do but do it at 6'-9". Bias was a bit before my time, but it seems that you always hear things like this about him.

Is this the football quarterback John Salley? Or someone different?

-ramdevil

John "Spider" Salley. GT Yellow Jacket and Detroit Piston (most notably, though he did win titles with Chicago and LA).