Wally Wade changes

[Duvall]

I think 40k would be a stretch. the plans i've seen only show the new rows of seats behind the endzone and along the sidelines...not ALL the way around...so only another thousand or 2 at MOST. The new tower probably won't support more than 1k more than today.

so i'd say next year's capacity will be ~36k

empty seats are worse than a sellout IMO...so i'm okay with playing conservative with the expansions...especially when they don't inhibit future additions, such as closing the bowl and adding a second deck (as some plans have shown)

40,000 was the number given at Wednesday's presser. I suppose it could be an approximation.

[Bob Green]

I'm looking forward to the stadium improvements and agree with those posters who have stated it takes time to rebuild the local fan base. If we keep winning, attendance will improve. However, the administration really needs to aggressively market the product as attendance at Kansas and Tulane games was pathetic (lots of tickets given away for the Elon game). Giving tickets away is better than empty seats seeing as folks will pay to park, buy food during the game, visit the student store, etc...Specifically, whole sections of the stadium were empty last Saturday against Tulane. Sections 2, 10, 11, 12 jump to the front of my mind as being completely void of butts in seats.

As far as the seats, closer to the field, I take in the games from Section 19 behind the north end zone and prefer to sit toward the top no more than seven or eight rows down as that location allows a good view of both ends of the field. The farther down into the stadium you go the more difficult it is to see the action on the south end of the field.

Finally, in regard to the new scoreboard and audio/video system, I hope it comes equipped with a volume control as currently the audio in Wallace Wade Stadium is too loud!

[budwom]

yeah, get the PA announcer some Prozac, especially on THIRD DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chrishoke]

40,000 was the number given at Wednesday's presser. I suppose it could be an approximation.

That number includes seating in the new Duke Tower.

[aimo]

The new blue seats suck. They are hot. You're soaked with sweat when you get up. There is even less leg room than in Cameron! Imagine that! And they are going to be trashed by the end of the season, they're so flimsy. Watch how people step all over them. They're already scuffed up, and it's only been three games. I actually miss the bleachers.

[Scorp4me]

why lower the field now?

Because if they don't people will continue to complain about the track lol.

I think the seats are a bad idea at this time. It's easy to see an empty seat but you can spread out on a bench and make the stadium look "more full". I'm not saying seats aren't more comfortable or anything like that, just that with the current situation retaining the benches might have been the best idea.

Also, I think this is a time where lots of schools, heck lots of different sports and pro teams even, are struggling to fill their stadiums. Times have changed, better access to the sports on television and such make it harder to get people out of the house. If I were in charge I'd worry less with adding seats and simply focus on making it the best looking, etc., we can make the stadium.

I'd lower it to complete the bowl, make the spacing extremely comfortable so that few seats are actually added, and I definitely wouldn't close in the bowl. WW is a great place and it can be made great again without sacrificing what it is now. Unfortunately it seems admin has part of that, fans are wanting another half, and we're ending up with a mix. It's not a terrible mix, but could be better.

I'd rather wait than do it wrong. The track has never bothered me and I've heard many visitors comment on how much nicer the stadium is (age not withstanding) than their own. But I think admin is being pressured to act now and it is legitimate pressure. Should have been done long ago, just wish they would get it right on the first try

[duke09hms]

No, it's imperative to lower the field and take out the track as soon as possible. The track makes Duke look like a high school football program and is a laughingstock. No respectable college football program has a track around their football field. I think so far, the plan is ideal.

We shouldn't drop a lot of cash to increase capacity because it's uncertain whether we can ever fill it consistently in this day and age, and we aren't. We scuppered the 2012 plans to close the horseshoe, which were previously going to increase capacity by 10k to 44k. http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoot...e-wade-stadium

The small increase in capacity given what's formally approved is a necessity to bring seating as close as possible to the field, and we're building bleachers down from the current sideline bleachers.

Our academic/athletic peers all have similar-sized stadiums that look great. All with no track.
Vanderbilt: 40k
Northwestern: 47k
Stanford: 50k (actually dropped capacity from 85k in 2005 while removing the track)
West Point: 38k

Given that we're not in any major city like Nashville/Bay Area/Chicago, I'd be happy with a final capacity of <40k, and if we can fill it consistently like West Point, that'd be great. I'm all for quality over quantity.

[Son of Jarhead]

I think 40k would be a stretch. the plans i've seen only show the new rows of seats behind the endzone and along the sidelines...not ALL the way around...so only another thousand or 2 at MOST. The new tower probably won't support more than 1k more than today, so i'd say next year's capacity will be ~36k.

40,000 was the number given at Wednesday's presser. I suppose it could be an approximation.

That number includes seating in the new Duke Tower.

From today's Durham Herald Sun article:

The new Wallace Wade Stadium will seat nearly 40,000...

The stadium’s track will be removed so the field can be lowered, which will allow 4,000 additional seats to be added along the playing field.

Link: http://www.heraldsun.com/breakingnew...VING-THE-DREAM

As Duvall says, an approximation. It seems 4,000 around the bottom, and as ChrisHoke includes, I'd say approximately 1,000 in the seats hanging off the front of the new Duke Tower, and a few hundred or more inside the tower. Throw in some more in the new ADA seating areas being added around the top of the stadium, and you get near to that 40,000 number. I think that is an appropriate size for Duke. We definitely have to get those seats filled or all this doesn't really matter. One thought I had is that maybe non-conference opponents that are more appealing to casual fans would help. Kansas & Tulane didn't bring anybody along with them, nor create any buzz. Elon actually brought more fans with them than I thought they possessed, so in-state teams make sense. ECU certainly, but App St and maybe Charlotte as well, would bring good numbers. NCCU is a good choice, the local buzz is helpful. Maybe even my own WCU would bring decent numbers (though I'd go broke hosting hundreds myself ). As others have pointed out, competition for people's entertainment dollars and attention is different now and much more difficult. Continued winning and an improved game-day experience are our best hope of attracting folks to WW. Cut, his coaches, & the players are taking care of the winning, and these facility improvements should help with the game day experience.

[duke09hms]

From today's Durham Herald Sun article:



Link: http://www.heraldsun.com/breakingnew...VING-THE-DREAM

As Duvall says, an approximation. It seems 4,000 around the bottom, and as ChrisHoke includes, I'd say approximately 1,000 in the seats hanging off the front of the new Duke Tower, and a few hundred or more inside the tower. Throw in some more in the new ADA seating areas being added around the top of the stadium, and you get near to that 40,000 number. I think that is an appropriate size for Duke. We definitely have to get those seats filled or all this doesn't really matter. One thought I had is that maybe non-conference opponents that are more appealing to casual fans would help. Kansas & Tulane didn't bring anybody along with them, nor create any buzz. Elon actually brought more fans with them than I thought they possessed, so in-state teams make sense. ECU certainly, but App St and maybe Charlotte as well, would bring good numbers. NCCU is a good choice, the local buzz is helpful. Maybe even my own WCU would bring decent numbers (though I'd go broke hosting hundreds myself ). As others have pointed out, competition for people's entertainment dollars and attention is different now and much more difficult. Continued winning and an improved game-day experience are our best hope of attracting folks to WW. Cut, his coaches, & the players are taking care of the winning, and these facility improvements should help with the game day experience.

In their presentation, Dr. White or some other director said the new tower would hold around 2,000 seats. Add the 4,000 seats that will be closer to the field, and we get pretty close to the 40,000 approximation by the 2016 season. I personally don't think we should expand beyond 40k unless we're consistently selling out, and can think of all sorts of better uses for that money (financial aid, dorm renovation).

[Son of Jarhead]

In their presentation, Dr. White or some other director said the new tower would hold around 2,000 seats. Add the 4,000 seats that will be closer to the field, and we get pretty close to the 40,000 approximation by the 2016 season. I personally don't think we should expand beyond 40k unless we're consistently selling out, and can think of all sorts of better uses for that money (financial aid, dorm renovation).

I agree. I don't think we'll see additional expansion beyond this "nearly 40,000" any time soon, if ever. Even if we do have consistent sell-outs, I can see Duke treating WW like Cameron.

[duke79]

Because if they don't people will continue to complain about the track lol.

I think the seats are a bad idea at this time. It's easy to see an empty seat but you can spread out on a bench and make the stadium look "more full". I'm not saying seats aren't more comfortable or anything like that, just that with the current situation retaining the benches might have been the best idea.

Also, I think this is a time where lots of schools, heck lots of different sports and pro teams even, are struggling to fill their stadiums. Times have changed, better access to the sports on television and such make it harder to get people out of the house. If I were in charge I'd worry less with adding seats and simply focus on making it the best looking, etc., we can make the stadium.

I'd lower it to complete the bowl, make the spacing extremely comfortable so that few seats are actually added, and I definitely wouldn't close in the bowl. WW is a great place and it can be made great again without sacrificing what it is now. Unfortunately it seems admin has part of that, fans are wanting another half, and we're ending up with a mix. It's not a terrible mix, but could be better.

I'd rather wait than do it wrong. The track has never bothered me and I've heard many visitors comment on how much nicer the stadium is (age not withstanding) than their own. But I think admin is being pressured to act now and it is legitimate pressure. Should have been done long ago, just wish they would get it right on the first try

Agree totally with you. Thanks for posting. I don't think lack of seating capacity is going to be the problem for Duke football, except for maybe a few premier games. They might actually want to go in the opposite direction. Reduce the number of seats, give people more seat and leg room, improve the quality of seats, etc. I think, visually, it looks much better to have 25,000 people in a 30,000 seat stadium than 25,000 in a 40,000 seat stadium. I would truly think quality over quantity when it come the WW renovation.

[orrnot]

Throw in some more in the new ADA seating areas being added around the top of the stadium, and you get near to that 40,000 number.

I think you'll find that the upper ADA seating actually reduces the overall numbers. It's being installed on top of the last 2 or 3 rows of bleachers. That should allow for rolling right in on the concourse level (instead of up the small ramps now in use), and having a substantial height advantage over the new last row of bleachers. I think those views are going to be fantastic.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

They already do

employee day
military day
etc.

plus student tickets are free. Also, there are only 6500 undergrads...and many of the grad students a) live off campus and what grad student is gonna pony up bucks for parking (and then walk). b) have a bazillion other things on their plate, so spending big chunks of time getting to and from the game, plus the game time itself is a big ask. c) they don't sell ramen noodles at the game :P

Closer parking options for non-Iron Dukes. That is all.

[Son of Jarhead]

I think you'll find that the upper ADA seating actually reduces the overall numbers. It's being installed on top of the last 2 or 3 rows of bleachers. That should allow for rolling right in on the concourse level (instead of up the small ramps now in use), and having a substantial height advantage over the new last row of bleachers. I think those views are going to be fantastic.

Thanks for posting that, I didn't know we'd lose a couple rows at the top. I wasn't figuring the ADA seating would add very many, but you're right, that takes the numbers in the opposite direction. Still, the Athletic Dept. used the near 40k number, so I'll go with that, but I guess we'll have to wait to find out just how they might get there.

[CameronBornAndBred]

There are two interesting articles that I just read. Both are from two days ago, and both have valid points.
Also, if you want to read some high praise for Coach Cut, check the middle of the first article.

The issue isn’t something lacking in the gameday experience, as Duke officials have suggested in their pitches for the millions in spending to improve the experience. It’s a small student body, a far-flung alumni base and lack of penetration in a local market that has competition from two large state ACC schools that are less than 15 miles away.
The smart folks at Duke can find 250 million other things to do with that money instead of wasting it on bright lights for football and other sports. The products on the field are already top-notch; spend that money on academics, research, really, anything else.

http://augustafreepress.com/duke-foo...e-spend-money/

Duke football has saved my football-going experience this season, for one reason. They now offer general admission tickets – in the end zone – for $30. General admission seats for $30 each! For the homecoming game this weekend, they were offering them for $25. While I would enjoy any ACC game, I bought tickets for the Duke game against, of course, Virginia Tech, on Nov. 15. I didn’t have to cringe when I paid for them.
....
I am interested to see the improvement to Wallace Wade Stadium first hand, but I liked it pre-improvements, too. So what if the restrooms weren’t fancy and the concessions were limited. Not everything at a top tier university has to be perfect. Because once the big bucks start rolling in, the people with the big bucks are the majority of the folks there. What Duke has done with these lower priced football tickets is increased the chance people will try out the college game day experience at Duke, whether they’re rooting for the Blue Devils or not. I think they’ll like it. It’s good for Durham, too

http://www.heraldsun.com/news/x53229...day-affordable

[uh_no]

There are two interesting articles that I just read. Both are from two days ago, and both have valid points.
Also, if you want to read some high praise for Coach Cut, check the middle of the first article.

http://augustafreepress.com/duke-foo...e-spend-money/


http://www.heraldsun.com/news/x53229...day-affordable

I like the ideas, and completely agree that duke likely cannot and should not attempt to provide the same game day experience as a big time state school...it ain't going to happen. I think it took cutcliffe a couple years to understand that too.

i think there are some things, some polish, that can be thrown on the experience to aid that though...

1) inside the stadium...we know that's being worked on...closer stands, bigger scoreboard etc
2) the entrances to the stadium...honestly, it's like a dump...uneven cracked pavement, the gates literally dump into traffic circles, especially west gate...can we get a sidewalk or something??? The only way to get to the 751 lot is to walk down the middle of basset Dr where cars are driving....then there's the lot down the bottom of the hill on west gate...can we get a staircase or something?...i had someone ask we last week while standing on basset drive, about 50 yards from the stadium where the stadium was...it's at best uninviting from the outside. not to mention the giant hill INSIDE west gate...where people with mobility impairments have to climb up to get to a place where the shuttles can pick them up...not sure how that one meats ADA...
3) scotch bar inside the stadium :P

[dpslaw]

The author of the Augusta Free Press article is ridiculously obtuse. First he states that Cut is the best coach in college football. Then he expresses amazement that Cut would stay at Duke. Finally, he argues that the money to be spent on the improvements is a waste given that Cut has decided to stay at Duke.

Apparently, it doesn't occur to him that a major reason that Cut came to Duke (and decided to stay) is that he was promised the Wallace Wade renovations.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I like the ideas, and completely agree that duke likely cannot and should not attempt to provide the same game day experience as a big time state school...it ain't going to happen. I think it took cutcliffe a couple years to understand that too.

i think there are some things, some polish, that can be thrown on the experience to aid that though...

1) inside the stadium...we know that's being worked on...closer stands, bigger scoreboard etc
2) the entrances to the stadium...honestly, it's like a dump...uneven cracked pavement, the gates literally dump into traffic circles, especially west gate...can we get a sidewalk or something??? The only way to get to the 751 lot is to walk down the middle of basset Dr where cars are driving....then there's the lot down the bottom of the hill on west gate...can we get a staircase or something?...i had someone ask we last week while standing on basset drive, about 50 yards from the stadium where the stadium was...it's at best uninviting from the outside. not to mention the giant hill INSIDE west gate...where people with mobility impairments have to climb up to get to a place where the shuttles can pick them up...not sure how that one meats ADA...
3) scotch bar inside the stadium :P

Don't forget the fairly steep grade from the North Gate down into the stadium... a challenge for those with mobility issues or carrying young children (since strollers aren't allowed inside the gates).

In recent years, there has been a lot done with landscaping and signage to improve the appearance of the campus in general, but little, if any, has filtered to the football stadium.

[tux]

I like the ideas, and completely agree that duke likely cannot and should not attempt to provide the same game day experience as a big time state school...it ain't going to happen. I think it took cutcliffe a couple years to understand that too.

i think there are some things, some polish, that can be thrown on the experience to aid that though...

1) inside the stadium...we know that's being worked on...closer stands, bigger scoreboard etc
2) the entrances to the stadium...honestly, it's like a dump...uneven cracked pavement, the gates literally dump into traffic circles, especially west gate...can we get a sidewalk or something??? The only way to get to the 751 lot is to walk down the middle of basset Dr where cars are driving....then there's the lot down the bottom of the hill on west gate...can we get a staircase or something?...i had someone ask we last week while standing on basset drive, about 50 yards from the stadium where the stadium was...it's at best uninviting from the outside. not to mention the giant hill INSIDE west gate...where people with mobility impairments have to climb up to get to a place where the shuttles can pick them up...not sure how that one meats ADA...
3) scotch bar inside the stadium :P

Agree on #1 and of course #3, but #2 just reads like a litany of complaints from some grumpy old curmudgeon --- sidewalks, and staircases, and hills, etc. You're not a grumpy old curmudgeon are you uh_no? Seriously, though, I think it's worth making some big improvements to WW. There's a comment from a Duke fan beneath the first linked article that puts the money in the context of the past 85 years of zero upgrades. I think that's a good way to think about it.

It's time to bring WW into the modern era of college football, even if we all bemoan the big business it's become. That said, the math is against us when it comes to filling all the seats. The coaches and players deserve a packed house, but I'm not sure where all the extra bodies are going to come from... Maybe sustained success will get us there, but the success of the last 5 years is hard-fought, but probably pretty fragile.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Agree on #1 and of course #3, but #2 just reads like a litany of complaints from some grumpy old curmudgeon --- sidewalks, and staircases, and hills, etc. You're not a grumpy old curmudgeon are you uh_no?

If you read the first article, uh_no is not the only one expressing those sentiments. Remember what they say about first impressions?

Saturday was my first visit to Wallace Wade, and quaint as it is, and I’m saying this as politely as I can, the place is a dump, a slightly overgrown D3 stadium with a sports medicine center dressed up as a press box on game days, a shantytown of tents along the concourse made up to be concession stands and those scads of empty seats on all corners.

By the way, I disagree with both. Maybe because I've been going to WW since I was a kid getting splinters in my butt from the wooden benches, but I have always liked our stadium.