Atlanta Hawks Majority Owner to Sell Team Due to racist email

[subzero02]

Is it racist or racially insensitive for Ferry to assert that Deng, as a free agent, was playing both ends against the middle? Even if, as appears to be the case, Ferry made a reference to Deng's African experience as a youth, it seems to me that this falls in the category of warning the partners about a sharp business practice, not a racial slur. I suspect we'd all agree that such a warning was part of Ferry's job. Compare that with what Abdul-Jabbar said about Levenson, as set forth in the link. He found Levenson's email to be a legitimate marketing inquiry and not racist at all.

Where do we find the line between racism and a benign reference to race?

I don't see how you interpret Ferry's comment as merely a reference to Deng's African experience as a youth. I think it's blatantly obvious that what Ferry said was a disparaging critique of Deng as an African and of Africans in general.

[Poincaré]

I wonder how many more people will claim or insinuate without evidence that Danny Ferry was expressing his own opinions.

According to the AJC and many other sources, Ferry was reading a report that contained racist remarks and was not the originator of those remarks.

"According to Koonin, the Hawks held a meeting in early June to discuss free agency. At that meeting, a player was being discussed and Ferry cited a background report that included an “offensive and racist” remark."

But SBN or BR type of sites are omitting that detail in an effort to make the story more sensational. If anything, I would put forth the conjecture that one of the other part-owners with no power over team operations saw an opportunity for a power-grab and is exploiting the Sterling situation. Who knows what anyone really thinks these days, but are we really that eager to believe that Ferry is guilty of blue-on-blue crime?

It's almost as if some people just delight in any opportunity to condemn others for racism regardless of whether they have the necessary information. Based on what's out there, a recording of the conference call exists and the Hawks' owners know that it is in the hands of the complaining party and they have not fired Ferry. In light of that, it seems quite likely Ferry was merely reading someone else's report. Otherwise, the Hawks' owners are idiots who cannot tie their own shoelaces. I am fairly certain that none of them are named James Dolan.

[Jim3k]

OK, guys. Calm down. My question about the line is not intended to be a hot button. It is/was rhetorical.

The problem with analyzing anyone's remark about anything racial is that whatever triggers sensitivity always has a subjective component. (Objective components are easy to see.) That being the case, there is a great deal of space between what is racist and what is benign. Consider the old maps where the mapmaker knows that a political divider is in dispute. So he cross-hatches the territory to show that dispute. There is no bright line to be found in those old territorial disputes.

Likewise there is no bright line to be found in the commentaries regarding Levenson or Ferry. I am only suggesting that sometimes we are too quick to jump to a conclusion. Which is what Abdul-Jabbar was also saying. We need to be aware of context; we also need to do our job and be fair as we do it.

[HK Dukie]

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/n...ron_letter.pdf

The letter from the minority owner dated June 12th, requesting Ferry's resignation.

To me personally, the comment referred to in the Ferry letter above is racist while Levenson's comments while not racist were prejudiced and offensive (he probably deserves discipline not losing the team). It appears Ferry was just reading the scouting report, but even reading comments like that to a business is wrong. I know I would get fired from my job if I read a report like this aloud in a meeting with my team if I didn't immediately say that I disagreed with them. I hope there are mitigating circumstances and this letter is embellishing the case against Ferry.

And by the way, there is nothing wrong with Deng's game. He was a steal at $10m a year. Hawks should have gotten him as I think they had $11.5m in cap space remaining.

[lotusland]

I don't see how you interpret Ferry's comment as merely a reference to Deng's African experience as a youth. I think it's blatantly obvious that what Ferry said was a disparaging critique of Deng as an African and of Africans in general.

I have never been to Africa but I can tell you, without question, the perception is that the corruption abounds. I've talked with numerous missionaries who served
there and contrasted their work in Africa with other third world countries and their biggest frustration with Africa is corruption of the public officials and specifically that they tell you one thing and do another. It's ridiculous to say that the missionaries who told me that are racist. There are numerous novels and memoirs dealing with Africa and the corruption that exists there. This is not a big secret that no one has heard before so spare me the sanctimony.

If someone said "he's likes to have a drink - he's got a little Irish in him" there would be no outrage.

[Skitzle]

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/n...ron_letter.pdf

The letter from the minority owner dated June 12th, requesting Ferry's resignation.

To me personally, the comment referred to in the Ferry letter above is racist while Levenson's comments while not racist were prejudiced and offensive (he probably deserves discipline not losing the team). It appears Ferry was just reading the scouting report, but even reading comments like that to a business is wrong. I know I would get fired from my job if I read a report like this aloud in a meeting with my team if I didn't immediately say that I disagreed with them. I hope there are mitigating circumstances and this letter is embellishing the case against Ferry.

And by the way, there is nothing wrong with Deng's game. He was a steal at $10m a year. Hawks should have gotten him as I think they had $11.5m in cap space remaining.

1) Ferry was way out of line by not qualifying that statement, or apologizing or being shocked himself. "Sorry about that, I didn't realize how offensive that was while I was reading it. Thats the verbatim from a 3rd party source. CYA on the call or in the meeting dude.

2) Levenson's comments were best summed up by Zach Lowe in the article above. Offensive at best, racist at worst

3) Gearon was looking for a reason to get rid of Ferry. This is clear. "If Ferry's comments were ever made public, and it's a safe bet to say they will someday." Then he LEAKED his own email.

Tough luck for Ferry, but he just lost his job as a GM for life. (I think.)

[Reilly]

... If someone said "he's likes to have a drink - he's got a little Irish in him" there would be no outrage.

A friend of mine from Duke was the best man at his brother's wedding. The bride had strong Irish roots ("Mc-something"; red hair; Notre Dame). My friend prefaced his toast mentioning having researched various Irish toasts "and boy are there a lot of them ..." He actually caught flak from the bride's uptight sister for that little line: alcoholism is a disease, yada yada (mind you, none of the family there were drunks that I knew of). My friend later appealed to me to attest to his character (I was there; my grandparents had immigrated from Ireland) but I was too lit to be of help.

[TampaDuke]

I wonder how many more people will claim or insinuate without evidence that Danny Ferry was expressing his own opinions.

According to the AJC and many other sources, Ferry was reading a report that contained racist remarks and was not the originator of those remarks.

"According to Koonin, the Hawks held a meeting in early June to discuss free agency. At that meeting, a player was being discussed and Ferry cited a background report that included an “offensive and racist” remark."

But SBN or BR type of sites are omitting that detail in an effort to make the story more sensational.

Not only that, but assuming that is true, the NBA has a bigger issue on its hands as that means an employee of yet another team made the original comments.

[HK Dukie]

This story has a little bit of the Seinfeld finale in it with respect to Ferry.

Do you confront racist comments or just sit idly by? For the Seinfeld crew they went to jail for doing nothing (nice twist for a "show about nothing"). Ferry was more engaged in making the situation worse by reading the comments, yet it wasn't his beliefs, it wasn't his comments. I am quite curious as to how this whole thing plays out. In general I don't have a problem with people minding their own business but it would probably be better for society if we all spoke out more when we saw something wrong.

http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/baske...y-ferry/nhJZM/

The link is to Ferry's statement.

[subzero02]

I have never been to Africa but I can tell you, without question, the perception is that the corruption abounds. I've talked with numerous missionaries who served
there and contrasted their work in Africa with other third world countries and their biggest frustration with Africa is corruption of the public officials and specifically that they tell you one thing and do another. It's ridiculous to say that the missionaries who told me that are racist. There are numerous novels and memoirs dealing with Africa and the corruption that exists there. This is not a big secret that no one has heard before so spare me the sanctimony.

If someone said "he's likes to have a drink - he's got a little Irish in him" there would be no outrage.

So,if you're corrupt you have the attributes of an African, if you're a drinker you have an attribute of the Irish and if you place a negative stereotype on an entire ethnic group you're not making a racist comment. Got it.

[77devil]

A friend of mine from Duke was the best man at his brother's wedding. The bride had strong Irish roots ("Mc-something"; red hair; Notre Dame). My friend prefaced his toast mentioning having researched various Irish toasts "and boy are there a lot of them ..." He actually caught flak from the bride's uptight sister for that little line: alcoholism is a disease, yada yada (mind you, none of the family there were drunks that I knew of). My friend later appealed to me to attest to his character (I was there; my grandparents had immigrated from Ireland) but I was too lit to be of help.

In today's hyper PC culture, it is pretty hard to open your mouth without offending someone. I echo Jim3K's comment. Furthermore, in my experience those quick to judge and criticize often have an agenda.

[lotusland]

In today's hyper PC culture, it is pretty hard to open your mouth without offending someone. I echo Jim3K's comment. Furthermore, in my experience those quick to judge and criticize often have an agenda.

I must agree. So many lie in wait to spring the sanctimonious racist trap at first opportunity that any type of constructive dialogue is squelched. Any discussion that doesn't include sufficient self flagellation is doomed to be squashed. For many folks who would like to contribute to reconciliation and improvement in race relations it becomes much easier to just move to the suburbs, mind your business and keep your mouth shut than to actually engage.

[lotusland]

So,if you're corrupt you have the attributes of an African, if you're a drinker you have an attribute of the Irish and if you place a negative stereotype on an entire ethnic group you're not making a racist comment. Got it.

My very favorite songwriter is Patty Griffin who is of Irish Catholic descent:

"I was drinkin' like the Irish, but I was drinkin Scotch..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyySkPqJy9I

According to your logic, Patty Griffin is a racist. Got it.

[Duvall]

I must agree. So many lie in wait to spring the sanctimonious racist trap at first opportunity that any type of constructive dialogue is squelched. Any discussion that doesn't include sufficient self flagellation is doomed to be squashed. For many folks who would like to contribute to reconciliation and improvement in race relations it becomes much easier to just move to the suburbs, mind your business and keep your mouth shut than to actually engage.

So there are folks that would like to contribute to racial reconciliation, as long as such reconciliation does not include acknowledging that applying a pernicious stereotype to an entire continent of people could be racially problematic?

That doesn't sound like a serious interest.

[lotusland]

So there are folks that would like to contribute to racial reconciliation, as long as such reconciliation does not include acknowledging that applying a pernicious stereotype to an entire continent of people could be racially problematic?

That doesn't sound like a serious interest.

I think anything said that isn't cleared through proper PC channels could be racially problematic which is itself a problem. You can't talk about solutions without talking about problems. A car salesmen will tell you there is no sale until the buyer kicks the tires and a realtor will tell you that until a potential buyer start talking about the flaws, they're not serious about buying a home.

The continent of Africa needs a lot of help. Do they only want it from those who find their culture completely blameless? I might be easier and less risky to just stay home and tend to your own business. Freedom requires some toughness to survive. I suggest that folks who really believe in freedom of expression need to toughen up a bit. You cannot be free to express your opinion yet not have the intestinal fortitude to hear another's opinion without resorting to name calling.

[OldSchool]

Yeah...Ferry is done.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local...l-hawks/nhJQw/

From the article:

Ferry...described free agent target Luol Deng “he has a little African in him, not in a bad way, but he's a guy who would have a nice store out front, but sell you counterfeit stuff out of the back.”

I had no idea. Does anyone on here know Lu well enough to get me a good deal on a knock-off Rolex?

[johnb]

Wikipedia: Racism consists of both prejudice and discrimination...

So, there should be both prejudice/stereotype and discriminating behavior. It's not just an observation that may or may not be relatively valid for a subculture (Irish do drink quite a lot: http://alcoholireland.ie/facts/how-much-do-we-drink/), but a lot of Irish don't drink at all (my understanding is that Ireland has the highest rate of non-drinking in the EU). The observation without negative behavior doesn't strike me as racist. OTOH, I don't find humor about alcoholism to be funny.


Anyway, I couldn't figure out what it means to be "too African," so I went to the internet.

1. Here's one comment from a chicago fan a few years ago after Luol was said to be "too African" in 2010.
"africans are notoriously skinny and dont have big chest and are overall thin. African americans were inbreed during the slave years and thats why you see people like lebron james who are a lot thicker and stronger than africans. you will never see a lebron james from africa. deng sudanese body is just not strong enough to guard a physical beast like lebron."
http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/luol-deng

that seems potentially worse than anything said by anyone at the NBA (and certainly written in worse English), though I'd argue that it's not racist in that it isn't intended to hurt anyone, but I'm open to argument.


2. The noted African scholar Francis Deng alludes to people from Darfur being too African for Sudan, a country where Arabs and Africans are not happy neighbors.
http://books.google.com/books?id=_W0...can%22&f=false

3. As for African characteristics, I've heard lateness, and I've heard corruption, but I don't know how those would apply to Luol.

4. If being "too African" were a sign of real moral failing, I wonder why Luol would have won the NBA's citizenship award: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Walt...izenship_Award
and its sportsmanship award: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Sportsmanship_Award
In my glance at the roster of the winners of the two awards, no one else seems to have won both awards (not even Grant Hill).

5. Does it mean that he cheats? That would be weird, mostly because they're talking about a player who can hardly "cheat" an NBA team.

6. Maybe it means that he will say one thing to your face (generally a yes) but actually mean "no." This would be an issue during a free agent negotiation. It is something people do in Africa as a matter of course. It's also something they do in plenty of other regions of the world (?most areas outside of the U.S.), but there aren't many situations in which Danny Ferry is likely to be quoted as saying an 8 figure free agent is "too Japanese," a region which boasts a large number of people who also rarely says no to anyone during a business negotiation but who don't boast a lot of NBA-level players. If I were guessing, I'd say this is most likely, especially if you're GM for a team that presumably gets a lot of eventual no's from high profile free agents.

7. Danny Ferry grew up in an affluent white suburb, but he regularly went into DC to play against the best local players on weekends. He played on a predominately African-American high school team, etc etc. I'm not one to throw him under the bus because of one comment whose meaning is not clear. Maybe his employers are happy to jettison him for the PR, but I've always really liked and respected him.

8. As for the owner (who I care less about), he seems to be pointing out a perceived trend in the general pursuit of making more money (black fans make it less likely for white fans to come to the game). This is unsavory but may be true (I haven't given this one any thought until 5 minutes ago, but it could be true). As has been pointed out, I don't have the impression that the owner has done much off anything to go out of his way to hurt African-Americans (or even to discourage their attendance at games). That doesn't make him a saint, but I really doubt that he cares where he gets his money from. Unlike many people in the population, people who become rich enough to buy sports teams tend to look at people and situations from the perspective of amoral (which isn't necessarily immoral) profit, and my hunch is that if he could make more money with an all-black crowd, he'd have been totally fine and would be scheming out ways to discourage white fans from showing up. In his case, I'd guess he is mostly interested in seeing green than anything else.

[sagegrouse]

A friend of mine from Duke was the best man at his brother's wedding. The bride had strong Irish roots ("Mc-something"; red hair; Notre Dame). My friend prefaced his toast mentioning having researched various Irish toasts "and boy are there a lot of them ..." He actually caught flak from the bride's uptight sister for that little line: alcoholism is a disease, yada yada (mind you, none of the family there were drunks that I knew of). My friend later appealed to me to attest to his character (I was there; my grandparents had immigrated from Ireland) but I was too lit to be of help.

This seems like a ridiculous objection on its face. "Irish pubs" are famous world-wide as places for conviviality. I remember a good one in Taormina, Sicily. Bartenders are either exported from Ireland or recruited locally with some of the famous welcoming attributes. There is even some behavioral science on the features: darts promote social behavior; pinball is antisocial. Now, some Irish-American family is objecting to someone mentioning that "there are a lot of Irish toasts?" What tha'!

[Reisen]

Maybe I'm just being obtuse, but what does that even mean? "He's got some African in him. And I don't mean that in a bad way."

I assume, since it's part of a scouting report, it has something to do with basketball? Is "African" supposed to be code for something else? And if it's not something negative, what is it?

Just to come back to this, the more recent comments (about selling counterfeit merchandise out of the back of a respectable looking shop) make a lot more sense than the originally reported comment. It sounds to me like someone censored and condensed the comment to protect Ferry.

In terms of the comment, I don't find it racist (it has nothing to do with race), but I can easily see how it is offensive culturally. Similar to stereotypes about certain cultures and alcohol, work ethic, greediness, stealing intellectual property, etc. Certainly, I think it is far more offensive than anything in Levenson's email, which was just a very frank discussion of customer demographics.

So, yeah, we now have heard third hand, via multiple parties with obvious agendas, that Danny Ferry evidently repeated something that was culturally offensive on a conference call. It will be very interesting to see what happens next.

[Henderson]

Reisen's last paragraph provides a nice summary of where we are. Now this thread feels to me as though it's exhausted itself from a basketball perspective.