2014 NFL Season

[Duvall]

I think Roger Goodell is a ham-handed piker idiot.
How does this nitwit keep that job? Pick Condoleeza Rice already. You can be she wouldn't have dragged her can for what, three months now? What a shameful spectacle of Goodell's ineptitude.

Rice has a few fiascos of her own to explain. The NFL can surely do better than either.

[weezie]

Rice has a few fiascos of her own to explain. The NFL can surely do better than either.

OK, fine. I'll do it.

[ncexnyc]

So, I listened to all the commentary on Mike & Mike, and the one thing I agree is, what does this change? Everyone knew he knocked her out in the elevator. Sincere question, but has anyone (including Rice) claimed / thought she slipped or something and he was just trying to help?

So, I guess, yeah, I'm outraged. But I was outraged before that he beat his wife unconscious and only received a 2 game suspension.

True, so true, you’ve hit the nail squarely on its head.

I guess this is what really bothers me about America today. I voiced my displeasure on another thread with the lack of punishment that Rice was initially given. Nobody else seemed to mind at the time and like you say, if the woman was knocked unconscious, exactly how did people think it happened? Of course he hit her, although I will say I don’t agree with how the media are painting the blow that sent his wife to the floor.

I find it extremely hard to believe that the NFL and the Ravens, with all of their financial resources never managed to see this tape before today. What I’m seeing is the NFL and the Ravens with a whole lot of egg on their face trying to spin their way from under this PR nightmare, one of their own making.

I’m sorry, but while Rice deserved more than a two game suspension, his release and indefinite suspension appear to be nothing more than a knee jerk reaction. As I’ve said before, if you’re going to talk about integrity, honesty, morality and all those other things we talk about to paint us, as people in a positive light, well you’d better practice it 100% of the time and not just when it suits your need.

[JasonEvans]

Goodell and the NFL claim they had not seen this surveillance video before today. How could they have conducted any kind of investigation -- given their money and power -- and not gotten access to the elevator video. They had to know it existed. Are we supposed to think that some AC Casino said "no" and the NFL just threw up its hands and said, "Oh well, we tried." The league looks awful in all this, especially Goodell.

I suspect Ray Rice's career may be over. Hard to see any team taking him on at this point as he is a PR nightmare and aging running backs who were just so-so last season are not worth the PR nightmare this would be. If Rice is going to have any hope of playing again, he needs to get out there on camera talking about this and probably doing a lot of community service kinds of things. We are a forgiving society if you ask for forgiveness. Rice needs to do anger-management counseling and perhaps even check himself into some kind of treatment facility. It is his only hope of being employable again.

-Jason "the Ravens may go after some of the $15 mil signing bonus they paid Rice a couple years ago. When Vick went away for god fighting, the Falcons recouped a portion of his signing bonus because his crime was considered a breach of contract" Evans

[duketaylor]

"When Vick went away for god fighting,"

That's a truly interesting typo.

[pfrduke]

True, so true, you’ve hit the nail squarely on its head.

I guess this is what really bothers me about America today. I voiced my displeasure on another thread with the lack of punishment that Rice was initially given. Nobody else seemed to mind at the time

That is very much not true. There was a widespread public furor about the limited scope of Rice's suspension.

[ncexnyc]

That is very much not true. There was a widespread public furor about the limited scope of Rice's suspension.

Can you point me to some of the outrage on this board? I don't recall seeing it.

[wilson]

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody posts about it on DBR, does it make a sound?

[mr. synellinden]

I’m sorry, but while Rice deserved more than a two game suspension, his release and indefinite suspension appear to be nothing more than a knee jerk reaction. As I’ve said before, if you’re going to talk about integrity, honesty, morality and all those other things we talk about to paint us, as people in a positive light, well you’d better practice it 100% of the time and not just when it suits your need.

This is the same problem - although obviously different circumstances - with what the NBA did to Donald Sterling - after knowing for many years that he exhibited racist behavior. The actions by the NBA and NFL were taken when they were (and because they were) necessary for PR reasons. Integrity requires doing what's right even when it doesn't serve your own interests.

[YmoBeThere]

In a perfect world, everyone knows everything. Life is rarely perfect...no, I'm not defending Ray Rice's actions. They were despicable.

What I would like to add to the mix is there could be many reasons why the NFL may not have access to the video. Just because someone has money and power doesn't mean they have access to all the information.
Keep in mind, the player's union was likely defending its membership behind the scenes.

With that said, did Goddell and the league tip their hand a couple weeks ago when they adjusted the punishment for domestic battery to six games and lifetime for the first and second offenses?

[TampaDuke]

Goodell and the NFL claim they had not seen this surveillance video before today. How could they have conducted any kind of investigation -- given their money and power -- and not gotten access to the elevator video. They had to know it existed. Are we supposed to think that some AC Casino said "no" and the NFL just threw up its hands and said, "Oh well, we tried." The league looks awful in all this, especially Goodell.

I don't have any personal knowledge of these circumstances, but for what it's worth, in my experience conducting employment investigations it is not that uncommon for an employer to not have access to this type of information. In many cases, there is simply no mechanism for a private party to compel production of this type of evidence. Law enforcement can often subpoena the information (and, depending on state laws, sometimes those criminal agencies must release their evidence after the investigation concludes), but in my experience a private entity has little incentive to cooperate. Indeed, I have found that the private entity has a disincentive to cooperate where they are not compelled by a subpoena as they are often concerned about their own liability.

Just a guess, but I doubt that it's a coincidence that this video ended up in the hands of TMZ, who likely paid somebody handsomely to release an otherwise unavailable video.

[Mal]

Goodell and the NFL claim they had not seen this surveillance video before today. How could they have conducted any kind of investigation -- given their money and power -- and not gotten access to the elevator video. They had to know it existed. Are we supposed to think that some AC Casino said "no" and the NFL just threw up its hands and said, "Oh well, we tried." The league looks awful in all this, especially Goodell.

I get this, but I do think it's a bit more complicated in reality. The NFL doesn't have subpoena power. Despite its omnipresence on our TV's and in our wallets, it's not above the law, and a hotel/casino has some things to consider when the NFL comes calling and asking for its private security camera tapes. Including, potentially, the views and desires of the Atlantic City police, which has a lot more "power" in its relationship with the individual casino than the interloping NFL. The NFL can't be seen as strong-arming another business that's done nothing wrong, and it can't be seen as interfering with an active criminal investigation.

In any event, the competence or incompetence of the NFL's "investigation" of this matter isn't the biggest concern here, at least as far as I'm concerned. It's the initial punishment. As others have noted, it's not as though the league couldn't (a) surmise what happened during the period of time that Rice and fiancee were offcamera, as everyone else in America did, (b) visualize it in their heads, and (c) anticipate the public's reaction to it, especially were they ever to see it on film. But for some reason, they failed to exercise that tiny little bit of vision.

On to a brighter note, look who's tied for first in the NFC North! Not Green Bay, and not Chicago. Won't last, I'm sure, but in Cordarelle I trust for now.

ETA: seeing that Tampa made exactly the same points while I was typing this. Sorry for the redundancy.

[tommy]

I get this, but I do think it's a bit more complicated in reality. The NFL doesn't have subpoena power. Despite its omnipresence on our TV's and in our wallets, it's not above the law, and a hotel/casino has some things to consider when the NFL comes calling and asking for its private security camera tapes. Including, potentially, the views and desires of the Atlantic City police, which has a lot more "power" in its relationship with the individual casino than the interloping NFL. The NFL can't be seen as strong-arming another business that's done nothing wrong, and it can't be seen as interfering with an active criminal investigation.

First of all, I think the PR hit the NFL and Goodell are rightly taking now is far worse than any hit it would have taken had they theoretically been seen as "strong arming" another business, especially when it would have been correctly seen as strong-arming for the purpose of protecting the victim of domestic violence.

Also, there is no interference with an active criminal investigation. The case has already been handled by the New Jersey courts, and in any event, the NFL simply obtaining a copy of the elevator tape would in no way have hindered the investigation. It's not like they would have obtained the only copy and perhaps destroyed it. They could've gotten a copy of it and the police and prosecutors continued their investigation, simultaneously.

I don't have any personal knowledge of these circumstances, but for what it's worth, in my experience conducting employment investigations it is not that uncommon for an employer to not have access to this type of information. In many cases, there is simply no mechanism for a private party to compel production of this type of evidence. Law enforcement can often subpoena the information (and, depending on state laws, sometimes those criminal agencies must release their evidence after the investigation concludes), but in my experience a private entity has little incentive to cooperate. Indeed, I have found that the private entity has a disincentive to cooperate where they are not compelled by a subpoena as they are often concerned about their own liability.

Just a guess, but I doubt that it's a coincidence that this video ended up in the hands of TMZ, who likely paid somebody handsomely to release an otherwise unavailable video.

Why couldn't the NFL have done what TMZ did? If they deemed it important enough, and they actually wanted to find the truth, they could've written the same check that TMZ did.

[TampaDuke]

Why couldn't the NFL have done what TMZ did? If they deemed it important enough, and they actually wanted to find the truth, they could've written the same check that TMZ did.

Nothing prevents them from trying, but MLB and the NCAA took some serious heat for its investigative practices for using similar tactics in the Alex Rodriguez and UM investigations, respectively. The NFL might also be wary of setting a precedent of having to pay for cooperation, given their deep pockets and the number of investigations that they conduct.

Hindsight is 20/20, of course, but the NFL could have very well thought that there was not a real need for the video given that Rice admitted to the conduct. Obviously the graphic nature of the video reveals that it would have been prudent to review before deciding on a course of action, but that might not have been apparent beforehand (assuming they even knew of its existence). I'm not trying to make excuses for the NFL here, just trying to point out that not having access to this evidence is not all that uncommon.

I'm also wondering how much TMZ paid for it. I suspect a substantial sum. Would the NFL spend such money on an investigation where the player admits the conduct? After the fact, it's clear they would have if given the chance to do it over. Beforehand? I'm not sure that's such an easy question.

[Blue in the Face]

I'm also wondering how much TMZ paid for it. I suspect a substantial sum. Would the NFL spend such money on an investigation where the player admits the conduct? After the fact, it's clear they would have if given the chance to do it over. Beforehand? I'm not sure that's such an easy question.

Well according to TMZ, they wouldn't have had to - the hotel would have simply given them the video if they'd asked. I think that assertion should be taken with a silo of salt (their "sources who worked at the casino at the time" might be the parking valets), but the NFL not even asking the hotel for any video from inside the elevator seems pretty dumb.

[duke74]

Giants in deep trouble. Probably a 4 win team, max. Eli lost in WC offense, with no O line to speak of. Breakdowns in secondary. (How do you LOSE Megatron in the middle of the field??)

My Jets started OK...some offensive improvement, including a better Geno (despite the TOs and the brain freeze losing 19 on a sack which took us out of FG range to put away the overmatched Raiders). Running game showed string. As did front 7. Should have been a 20 point win. Penalties and mistakes cost...but we won...

Scared to look at the next 6 weeks. In no particular order: Cutler, Manning (P), Brady, Rivers, Rogers, Stafford. OUCH...with a secondary with no corners...Rex was masterful v the Raiders...but that was a weak team with a rookie QB. Smoke and mirrors will not work against those guys.

I see 1-6. A LONG year for NY teams...

[TampaDuke]

Well according to TMZ, they wouldn't have had to - the hotel would have simply given them the video if they'd asked. I think that assertion should be taken with a silo of salt (their "sources who worked at the casino at the time" might be the parking valets), but the NFL not even asking the hotel for any video from inside the elevator seems pretty dumb.

Assuming that the NFL knew, or should have known, that the video existed, I definitely agree that they should have requested to view it or get a copy. For a thorough investigation, there's no doubt that they'd want to gather as much information, talk to all potential witnesses, and review as much evidence that you can obtain.

Apparently TMZ is also reporting that someone from the NFL, but not in the "core" group of executives, actually did get to view the video. If that's true, and if that person was someone of responsibility (or reported it), then it could well be true that the NFL did not want to know what was on the video. That said, though, it's hard to imagine an entity of any real size or sophistication intentionally wanting to put their heads in the sand knowing that the video was out there. I don't know the law of that particular State, but that video was likely going to become public after the criminal investigation and you would think they would know that. At this point, nothing would be too surprising, though.

[TampaDuke]

My Jets started OK...some offensive improvement, including a better Geno (despite the TOs and the brain freeze losing 19 on a sack which took us out of FG range to put away the overmatched Raiders). Running game showed string. As did front 7. Should have been a 20 point win. Penalties and mistakes cost...but we won...

In the AFC East, I wonder how many teams had the Jets, Bills and Dolphins winning and the Patriots losing in week 1? Certainly not me.

[bjornolf]

"When Vick went away for god fighting,"

That's a truly interesting typo.

Darn, you beat me to it. I was going to nominate Jason for post of the decade.

[bjornolf]

Assuming that the NFL knew, or should have known, that the video existed, I definitely agree that they should have requested to view it or get a copy. For a thorough investigation, there's no doubt that they'd want to gather as much information, talk to all potential witnesses, and review as much evidence that you can obtain.

Apparently TMZ is also reporting that someone from the NFL, but not in the "core" group of executives, actually did get to view the video. If that's true, and if that person was someone of responsibility (or reported it), then it could well be true that the NFL did not want to know what was on the video. That said, though, it's hard to imagine an entity of any real size or sophistication intentionally wanting to put their heads in the sand knowing that the video was out there. I don't know the law of that particular State, but that video was likely going to become public after the criminal investigation and you would think they would know that. At this point, nothing would be too surprising, though.

I wonder if the closing of the casino had anything to do with it (either making it more difficult to obtain the video, or in the NFL hoping that it would allow the video to just disappear)?