FSU sold?

[Jim3k]

It's hard to know where this link should go here at the DBR, if anywhere. It involves an ACC school and money. Not just anyone's money, but a coordinated effort to transform a state university into a political entity. I think we would all agree that a university is where students are exposed to a variety of disciplines which for the most part are designed to teach critical thinking. But the FSU transformation seems to be a new model--one which does not follow a non-partisan road. Plus, of course, it is a state university created for the citizenry as a whole, not a private or religious school supported by and supporting a narrower population for a specific purpose.

It is not my intent here to take this discussion into a public policy discussion, though it seems hard not to touch that ban. Similarly, it seems inappropriate to ignore this kind of development at one of our respected ACC sister schools. When there was an effort to change UVa a few years ago which resulted in firing and rehiring its president Teresa Sullivan who was opposed to an on-line faculty, we discussed that skirmish. This is not much different. Here, as there, outside money interests are trying to take over FSU's core mission. That seems worthy of discussion.

So, with that introduction, I link to this article in Context Florida entitled Presidential search is latest battle for free-market lobbyists trying to transform FSU. This seems both improper and corrupt, not to mention opaque. I can't think of any subject more important to a university discussion board, so I wanted to start it here.

[burnspbesq]

Holy moly. Apparently there are some folks in Tally who never figured out that the old line about building a university of which the football program can be proud was supposed to be a joke.

This is really appalling.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I grew up in Florida. And there were plenty of people who talked about "all those liberal schools up north." Yes, this is appalling. But unfortunately not surprising.

[Jarhead]

Holy moly. Apparently there are some folks in Tally who never figured out that the old line about building a university of which the football program can be proud was supposed to be a joke.

This is really appalling.

"This is really appalling," is nowhere near strong enough. This might even cause some serious accreditation questions. I hope it does.

[cspan37421]

No quicker way to kill a university's reputation than to turn it into an indoctrination center.

[JasonEvans]

I don't care what end of the political spectrum you are from, seeing someone without a rich history of accomplishment in academia (or at least a track record of dealing with important education issues) put in charge of a large state school is a cause for concern. The fact that it appears to be an act of political cronyism and perhaps even an effort to advance a specific political agenda via a public university is all the more troubling.

That said, I would like to hear the "other side" of this story. It is likely that the reporter linked in the original story is at least somewhat liberal-leaning and may bring unintentional biases to this story. I have not looked, but would be interested in hearing other opinions on the matter. Perhaps Thrasher has some background in education that makes him appropriate (or at least not completely unqualified) for this job.

-Jason "I looked at Thrasher's wiki page and I see nothing that indicates he belongs in this role" Evans

[Bluedog]

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/politics/2014/06/08/letters-support-back-john-thrasher-fsu-president/10191507/

That said, I would like to hear the "other side" of this story. It is likely that the reporter linked in the original story is at least somewhat liberal-leaning and may bring unintentional biases to this story. I have not looked, but would be interested in hearing other opinions on the matter. Perhaps Thrasher has some background in education that makes him appropriate (or at least not completely unqualified) for this job.

Here's (above, my phone copy/paste is not cooperating) an article that sounds decently balanced quoting "the other side"...

[A-Tex Devil]

The same battle has been going on at the University of Texas over the past 2-3 years. There is a group of folks that stand to make a lot of money off the monetization of state school degrees and they went to war with the UT president (current sitting chair of the AAU) and many of UT's top alumni. It looked grim for a while, but it looks like those that were looking to push "reform" through have lost, at least for now, thankfully. Look up Rick Sandefer in Texas and you'll get an idea of what the UT pres was dealing with.

It dips way too much into PPB to get into it much further, but I think there is a savvy entrepreneur like this in every large state (Va, Tx, Fl, etc.) because there is A LOT of money to be made, whether it's directly through tuition, or through the software and technology that can facilitate online classes. I think there are many institutions, that online classes, lower tuition, focusing on trade v. research, etc. are ideal. But there are also many, many institutions where such a philosophy is beyond damaging.

[Mike Corey]

Not to disagree or push back, but to add more information to the convo: I wanted to note that occasionally, non-academics have taken over leadership positions in higher education (I would guess that 10-15% of presidents come from nontraditional careers for university/college presidents). Now generally, the politicians that pivot into a career as a school president are politicians that served in significant positions.

Some examples:

Bob Kerrey, former governor and U.S. Senator of Nebraska, served as president of the New School from 2001-2010.

Robert Gates, former CIA director, served as president of Texas A&M; he later served as Sec. of Defense before becoming chancellor at William & Mary.

Erskine Bowles, former U.S. Senate candidate, White House Chief of Staff, and later chancellor of UNC's system

(I'm not including Condi Rice, who was an academic before she was "political").

~

But there are also some more abnormal examples: Mike Garrison may be the most analogous to this situation in Tallahassee. Garrison was a lobbyist/lawyer in West Virginia, had lots of political connections, and became president of WVU at the ripe old age of 38. He stepped down nine months later after a scandal involving the "improper rewarding of a master's degree to the governor's daughter."

[sagegrouse]

Not to disagree or push back, but to add more information to the convo: I wanted to note that occasionally, non-academics have taken over leadership positions in higher education (I would guess that 10-15% of presidents come from nontraditional careers for university/college presidents). Now generally, the politicians that pivot into a career as a school president are politicians that served in significant positions.

Some examples:

Bob Kerrey, former governor and U.S. Senator of Nebraska, served as president of the New School from 2001-2010.

Robert Gates, former CIA director, served as president of Texas A&M; he later served as Sec. of Defense before becoming chancellor at William & Mary.

Erskine Bowles, former U.S. Senate candidate, White House Chief of Staff, and later chancellor of UNC's system

(I'm not including Condi Rice, who was an academic before she was "political").

~

But there are also some more abnormal examples: Mike Garrison may be the most analogous to this situation in Tallahassee. Garrison was a lobbyist/lawyer in West Virginia, had lots of political connections, and became president of WVU at the ripe old age of 38. He stepped down nine months later after a scandal involving the "improper rewarding of a master's degree to the governor's daughter."

You left out Duke law grad, Kenneth Starr, now President of Baylor.

On a more serious note, the best example is Gov. Terry Sanford, who took over at Duke in the midst of the upheavals caused by the Vietnam War.

[mpj96]

Going back a little further I believe Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower served as President of Columbia prior to becoming President of the US.

[OldPhiKap]

You left out Duke law grad, Kenneth Starr, now President of Baylor.

On a more serious note, the best example is Gov. Terry Sanford, who took over at Duke in the midst of the upheavals caused by the Vietnam War.

Of course, Uncle Terry was known (among other things) for massive and successful reforms to NC's public education system while governor.

[Jim3k]

Going back a little further I believe Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower served as President of Columbia prior to becoming President of the US.

Before accepting the Columbia presidency, Eisenhower had already proved himself as one of the best organizers and war chroniclers (Crusade in Europe, 1948) the world had ever seen. He was qualified to run (well, fund raise for) a major private university. He was not comfortable in that role, had health issues, but served from 1948 to 1953, though he spent much of his time in ad hoc government service for Truman. The faculty resented his dual roles.

[wilson]

Going back a little further I believe Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower served as President of Columbia prior to becoming President of the US.

Before accepting the Columbia presidency, Eisenhower had already proved himself as one of the best organizers and war chroniclers (Crusade in Europe, 1948) the world had ever seen. He was qualified to run (well, fund raise for) a major private university. He was not comfortable in that role, had health issues, but served from 1948 to 1953, though he spent much of his time in ad hoc government service for Truman. The faculty resented his dual roles.

Similarly, Woodrow Wilson served as president of Princeton for 8 years before becoming governor of New Jersey and then U.S. president (after turning down the presidencies of the University of Illinois and the University of Virginia). Wilson (great name, btw) expressed frustration with the Board of Trustees' resistance to his forward-thinking recommendations for the university and later cited that frustration as a key reason for his decision to re-enter politics.

[sagegrouse]

Similarly, Woodrow Wilson served as president of Princeton for 8 years before becoming governor of New Jersey and then U.S. president (after turning down the presidencies of the University of Illinois and the University of Virginia). Wilson (great name, btw) expressed frustration with the Board of Trustees' resistance to his forward-thinking recommendations for the university and later cited that frustration as a key reason for his decision to re-enter politics.

Woodrow Wilson was a lifelong academic until being drafted to serve as governor of New Jersey in 1910, so he didn't decide to "re-enter politics." Woodrow Wilson has been given credit by historians with building Princeton to the stage that is was viewed on a level with Harvard and Yale.

Ike as President of Columbia? I don't believe his record was very good, never overcoming, perhaps, his first faux pas, referring to the faculty as "the employees of Columbia." Dwight's brother, Milton Eisenhower, was a very distinguished academic and served as president of Kansas State, Penn State and Johns Hopkins from 1943 to 1972. "Get Eisenhower," said the trustees of Columbia to the search committee in 1948, but there was apparently some confusion as to which one.

[johnb]

My first thought was, Of course, political cronies angle to reinforce each other's power. They wouldn't be cronies without such behavior. It's up to the region, the alums, the students, and the university to police the behavior. And from reading a variety of news stories that are just coming out, they seem to be addressing this debacle-in-the-making.

Anyway, it's a bit like my reaction to the UNC crisis: Of course, athletic departments angle to bring in and retain the least academic of students. It's up to the surrounding community and society to police them and devise safeguards and negative consequences unless we think it's fine for non students to take concourses. And it's reasonable to consider that other coaches and AD's are complaining because they would like to have such a Carolina system at their own schools but either didn't think large enough or worried they'd get caught. I would think that Duke's athletic administrators push against the admissions criteria as a matter of routine; I'd hope it's down tactfully and with an effort to bring in kids who can thrive on campus, but it's not like we just find the best ten ball players who happen to be roaming the campus. And it's not like Duke's presidential appointment process is completely devoid of politics.

[Wander]

Would you make the CEO of a major company someone with no business experience? Would you put someone with zero science or engineering training in charge of a medical research lab or spacecraft mission? This is absurd.

JE asked for the other side of the story, which is reasonable. How about the guy's actual application? Here's a link:

http://presidentialsearch.fsu.edu/do...JET-Resume.pdf

In addition to confirming JE's suspicions that he doesn't have the credentials for this kind of job, his resume includes phrases like:

"I learned to importance of building coalitions"

"I was able to build bipartisan coalitions around important education policy, as well as developing strong relationships to be effective."

You're applying for president of a major university and you can't even get basic grammar right in your resume? FFS.

[Bostondevil]

Much as I am on record with my responses Miriam, ah heck, can't remember that name so I'll just go with Belle Knox, anyway, I'm on record as saying her points about student loans are not entirely appropriate or accurate when discussing a Duke education. They are, however, appropriate when discussing an online degree from FSU. Those programs are designed to get students to borrow more money than they should at great profit to the few and at great expense to the many. Many schools don't limit the amounts a student can take out to pay for a degree and many lenders don't factor in likelihood of repayment. So, I will concede that Belle Knox did indeed have a point, it just didn't apply to her particular situation.

Availability of federally backed student loans needs to be revisited. Those at FSU must realize the cash cow cannot keep going and they want to make their money right now.

[Duvall]

It was bad enough losing Maryland to conference realignment, but losing another ACC school to privatization and dissolution may be even worse.

[davekay1971]

Given that one of the primary responsibilities of a University president is fundraising, choosing a guy with deep political connections for the job makes some sense, at least in the cash flow side of the university equation. Unfortunately, the US in which we now live is awash in crony capitalism, where the best way to make money is to have strong ties in government, at any level, and use those ties to push contracts, tax breaks, exemptions, and taxpayer money in the direction you so choose. This is a problem which cuts across all party lines, and the vast majority of people who make a living in politics, whether as an office holder, lobbyist, or, frequently, one of those creatures that floats between in-government and lobbying roles, are guilty of it. In that dirty environment, if you're a state university looking to make sure the dollars flow your way, you might want to make sure you have deep political connections of your own. It's lousy, it stinks, it's one of the issues that drives my own libertarian tendencies, but it also means that F$U's move makes perfect sense.