2017 Basketball Recruiting Thread

[DavidBenAkiva]

So we'll have some foul and injury trouble. We have 4 post players now not counting Jack and he can definitely play the 4 spot for a few minutes in a pinch. Our post talent and depth far surpasses our guards/wings and Duke is Guard U. If you are worried about foul. Nevertheless if you stick someone in front Javin at this point don't be disappointed if goes somewhere that values a guy with his talent. There are a lot of teams that would value him. You really can't expectt someone yo wait their turn if you are reserving the right to slide hot shot Johnny come lately in front of them at any time. Im just speaking for me but if K told me in May that he was going to need me to be ready to step up a play a bigger role next year then signed Bagley in August to play ahead of me I'd be pissed. Also I'd challenge you to find A national champion that did not start any upper class men much less rely on numerous upper classmen. Our potential upper classmen for next year are Javin, Jack and Vrank. Let's get Javin ready to be a team captain next year. Again I'm not expecting Bagley to pick Duke but why even flirt?

Lol ok, well we started 3 freshmen, a sophomore, and a senior guard when we won the National Championship in 2015. Kentucky had a similarly youthful team in 2012 as did Syracuse in 2003. At any rate, Javin or Marques playing 10-15 minutes a game apiece would be a significant increase in their contribution to the team next year. If they are intent on waiting their turn, there's always a junior and senior season!

[JasonEvans]

Lol ok, well we started 3 freshmen, a sophomore, and a senior guard when we won the National Championship in 2015. Kentucky had a similarly youthful team in 2012 as did Syracuse in 2003. At any rate, Javin or Marques playing 10-15 minutes a game apiece would be a significant increase in their contribution to the team next year. If they are intent on waiting their turn, there's always a junior and senior season!

Arguably the best team to not win a national title in the past 20 years, 2015 Kentucky, had 11 guys who played in at least 15 games... only one of them was a junior (Willie Cauley-Stein) and none were seniors.

[lotusland]

Lol ok, well we started 3 freshmen, a sophomore, and a senior guard when we won the National Championship in 2015. Kentucky had a similarly youthful team in 2012 as did Syracuse in 2003. At any rate, Javin or Marques playing 10-15 minutes a game apiece would be a significant increase in their contribution to the team next year. If they are intent on waiting their turn, there's always a junior and senior season!

LOL redshirt Junior MP3 played in 39 games and averaged 10 MPG for the season

LOLer Senior QC started 39 games, averaged 35 MPG, 15 PPG, 2.6 APG and provided key leadership for a young team

LOLest Junior Amile started 26 of 39 games averaging 23 minutes, 6 pts and 6 boards per game at 61% from the floor and most importantly put the supa-kibosh on Kaminsky when Jah was struggling and allowed the good guys to come back and win the natty. That's on one of the youngest duke teams ever btw.

In 2018 do you see MP3, Amile and QC level leadership and production coming from upper classmen? I don't but I'd love he to have at least one guy ready to lead on the court. LOL!

[lotusland]

Arguably the best team to not win a national title in the past 20 years, 2015 Kentucky, had 11 guys who played in at least 15 games... only one of them was a junior (Willie Cauley-Stein) and none were seniors.

You mean the Willie Caulie Stein who started 14 of 29 as freshman averaging 24 MPG and who's minor contribution to that near perfect team as a junior was merely 8 pts, 6.2 boards, 1 assist, 1steal, and 2.2 blocks per game earning SEC defensive POY, All SEC first team and USA first team AA team honors? Why I guess they didn't need him at all.

If you're trying to argue that college team doesn't need any experienced key upper classmen players on the floor I'm not convinced. Again who among Duke's upper classmen for 2018 project to have anywhere near that level of impact?

[pfrduke]

You mean the Willie Caulie Stein who started 14 of 29 as freshman averaging 24 MPG and who's minor contribution to that near perfect team as a junior was merely 8 pts, 6.2 boards, 1 assist, 1steal, and 2.2 blocks per game earning SEC defensive POY, All SEC first team and USA first team AA team honors? Why I guess they didn't need him at all.

If you're trying to argue that college team doesn't need any experienced key upper classmen players on the floor I'm not convinced. Again who among Duke's upper classmen for 2018 project to have anywhere near that level of impact?

Is this a trick question? Grayson Allen. Or did you mean the 2018-2019 season?

[SupaDave]

Dude. I don't think you even read my post. I laid out the three most common arguments I see against one and dones and explained why I dont really see them as particularly big problems. I'm not even sure what you're responding to. I actually agree with most of the things you say and said as much in my post.

Not necessarily for you - but for the audience that caters to those ideas.

[lotusland]

Is this a trick question? Grayson Allen. Or did you mean the 2018-2019 season?

Yes 2018-2019. Those are the guys who need to play some this year to be ready to step up and lead next year. Which is one good reason don't need to bring in another post player to play ahead of Javin this year when we are already blessed with Carter and Bolden as well as Javin and Vrank.

[jimsumner]

Yes 2018-2019. Those are the guys who need to play some this year to be ready to step up and lead next year. Which is one good reason don't need to bring in another post player to play ahead of Javin this year when we are already blessed with Carter and Bolden as well as Javin and Vrank.

I understand your point and share your concerns. A lot of this goes back to the class of 2019, that I mentioned upthread. In an alternative universe, Luke Kennard, Chase Jeter and Derryck Thornton would be seniors that season and Duke would be loaded with talented veterans.

But none of these guys left because they didn't get a chance to play. Duke lost four underclassmen to the NBA after the 2017 season, one (Jackson) something of a surprise and Jeter to transfer and missed on Knox and Bamba and it's hardly a surprise that Duke would want to make good those losses with a major talent like Bagley.

I mentioned earlier that Duke expected to sign Knox and had they done so, he likely would have had the same impact on DeLaurier that Bagley would have. Duke never expected DeLaurier to be a rotation player before his junior year. DeLaurier's PT in 2018 or lack thereof is not the root of Duke's inexperience next season.

K must not be all that worried about it. He had a chance to pursue Juwan Durham as a transfer, who would have been a redshirt sophomore in 2019 after practicing for a season as a redshirt. K elected not to pursue Durham or any other traditional transfer who might have provided some experience in 2019.

Likewise, he elected not to pursue a grad-student option. K has only tried that route once, Tarik Black, who picked Kansas back in 2013. Both David Cutcliffe and Joanne McCallie have grad-student transfers this seasons and Duke sports like baseball and soccer have long used that pipeline. So, there's no institutional bias at work.

Next summer might be the perfect storm for K to go that route and get more experience. But it just doesn't seem like an option that he feels comfortable with.

[plimnko]

***disclaimer....i'm NOT a fan of the one and done***

unfortunately, we're in the era of the "one and done" and that's just the way it is in college basketball. I HATE IT! i'm just trying to live with it.

that said...why not go after a talent like bagley? after the injuries last year, can you have enough talent? bagley, by all accounts, is one of those special players. i wonder if javin can improve in practice and get a little game time while he develops his 3 skills. with his size and athleticism, he could be a monster at the 3. if nothing else, he could be a very versatile big in 2018 and 2019.

anyway, whatever happens....i trust k to do what's right.

[NSDukeFan]

Am I correct in assuming that Bagley is the most talented and mobile big man since Harry Giles?

[Kedsy]

We have 3 very good post players and Vrank has shown that he is very capable of handling the role of the 4th option when injuries or foul trouble call.

We have 4 post players now not counting Jack and he can definitely play the 4 spot for a few minutes in a pinch.

At the ACC level? Antonio has played a grand total of 18 minutes (over two years) against ACC competition (and 7 of those minutes were in a 50+ point rout), and Jack has played 11 minutes against ACC competition (5 of those in the 50+ point rout). I'm sorry but neither of them have shown they can definitely do anything.

If you really want some experienced players /upper class men to stay, you need to exercise some restraint and not sign a late recruit just because there could be injuries that require you to rely on some top 30 guys instead a top 10 guys for a bit. That's what coaching is for. I'm glad K is a great recruiter but I also trust him to coach up our top 30 - 50 guys to handle the 4th spot on the depth chart.

Again, this doesn't seem applicable to either Antonio or Jack, neither of whom were rated anywhere near 30 to 50 -- or even in the top 200.

Your fears could possibly be somewhat justified regarding Javin, but I don't understand the idea of not going for a top 5 guy so that guys like Antonio and Jack -- ranked outside the top 230 -- can develop. Doesn't make any sense to me at all.

[lotusland]

It's not important to me for anyone to understand my personal preference but Vrank has acquitted himself quite well in his limited time. Certainly Coach K can remain on and endless shopping spree for players who are ready to star out of the box (although those guys are rarely ready to defend). But I would like Duke to invest a modicum of time and trust in the guys who came here to work and to be coached. Duke has Carter, Bolden and Javin in the post. There is only one ball and I do not believe Bagley will defend better than any of they guys who are here. And, again, I would like to see Javin move into the third post spot and be given the opportunity to contribute and prepare to be a leader next year. Duke is not going to platoon bigs next year. Vrank has most certainly shown himself capable of handling the very limited role of the 4th big in the rotation. I have nothing against Bagley and I'm sure he's a fine fellow. He wants to move up a class so he can get paid sooner. That's great for him. He doesn't want to share minutes and shots with Carter and Bolden. I wish him much success at Kansas or wherever he ends up.

[Dukehky]

It's not important to me for anyone to understand my personal preference but Vrank has acquitted himself quite well in his limited time. Certainly Coach K can remain on and endless shopping spree for players who are ready to star out of the box (although those guys are rarely ready to defend). But I would like Duke to invest a modicum of time and trust in the guys who came here to work and to be coached. Duke has Carter, Bolden and Javin in the post. There is only one ball and I do not believe Bagley will defend better than any of they guys who are here. And, again, I would like to see Javin move into the third post spot and be given the opportunity to contribute and prepare to be a leader next year. Duke is not going to platoon bigs next year. Vrank has most certainly shown himself capable of handling the very limited role of the 4th big in the rotation. I have nothing against Bagley and I'm sure he's a fine fellow. He wants to move up a class so he can get paid sooner. That's great for him. He doesn't want to share minutes and shots with Carter and Bolden. I wish him much success at Kansas or wherever he ends up.

You've said this thing a lot on this thread, and I think it's wrong to state as fact what you happen to think about a very talented kid, just because he went to three high schools and had a crazy dad. I don't think it's right. I also think this is the kind of thing that is against DBR policy. Bagley is the age of a college freshman. If he wants to come to Duke, he obviously does want to share minutes and shots with Bolden and Carter because they're already on the team. If he wanted to come in and be the only guy who plays or shoots, I don't think the coaching staff would be super thrilled to go after him (see our recruitment of Michael Porter).

We get it, while you say it's not important for anyone to understand your personal preference, you've argued with everyone on the board for the past like 4 pages about this. I would suggest starting to get over it or start chilling out a little bit, because this Bagley to Duke thing is probably happening.

[rsvman]

Let it go, lotusland. I doubt there is anyone still reading this thread who isn't clear by now what your opinion is and why.
Nothing to do now but let it play out and see what happens.

[lotusland]

You've said this thing a lot on this thread, and I think it's wrong to state as fact what you happen to think about a very talented kid, just because he went to three high schools and had a crazy dad. I don't think it's right. I also think this is the kind of thing that is against DBR policy. Bagley is the age of a college freshman. If he wants to come to Duke, he obviously does want to share minutes and shots with Bolden and Carter because they're already on the team. If he wanted to come in and be the only guy who plays or shoots, I don't think the coaching staff would be super thrilled to go after him (see our recruitment of Michael Porter).

We get it, while you say it's not important for anyone to understand your personal preference, you've argued with everyone on the board for the past like 4 pages about this. I would suggest starting to get over it or start chilling out a little bit, because this Bagley to Duke thing is probably happening.

Can I just point out that you just said it's wrong to state as fact what you happen to think Just because...crazy dad." Cognitive dissonance much?

[DavidBenAkiva]

***disclaimer...i'm NOT a fan of the one and done***

unfortunately, we're in the era of the "one and done" and that's just the way it is in college basketball. I HATE IT! i'm just trying to live with it.

that said...why not go after a talent like bagley? after the injuries last year, can you have enough talent? bagley, by all accounts, is one of those special players. i wonder if javin can improve in practice and get a little game time while he develops his 3 skills. with his size and athleticism, he could be a monster at the 3. if nothing else, he could be a very versatile big in 2018 and 2019.

anyway, whatever happens...i trust k to do what's right.

I think this pretty much sums it up. Duke, or any school for that matter, hasn't chosen the one-and-done route. It was thrust upon college basketball by the NBA and NBPA. What Duke has done, like Arizona, Kansas, Kentucky, and scores of other schools to various degrees (let's not forget the last 2 #1 picks in the NBA Draft did not go to "blue bloods"), is continue to recruit the talent that a premier program is capable of recruiting. We've been more successful than most during this era, thank goodness.

What I really find interesting about this board is the degree to which the ire of one-and-done is being directed at Bagley. It's like we are totally cool with Trevon Duval, Gary Trent, Jr., and Wendell Carter, Jr. on the team but adding one more one-and-done type (I remain skeptical that Trent will leave after a year, but I thought the same thing about Frank Jackson, so...) is bringing out the pitchforks. This is the Duke strategy, like or loathe it. Until Adam Silver fixes all ills of basketball, this is the roller coaster we're riding.

[Dukehky]

Can I just point out that you just said it's wrong to state as fact what you happen to think Just because...crazy dad." Cognitive dissonance much?

Tone is difficult to convey via text sometimes. I was more or less mocking any complaint about his three high schools and being hyperbolic about his father's behavior. I appreciate your effort to find support through psychoanalysis of words on a message board to find support for your own argument. I would try that too if I realized that no one else really agreed with me.

I don't really think about parents before the kid starts playing for Duke. I'll admit I was concerned about Chuck Okafor and I couldn't have been proven more wrong, and after that, I decided I wouldn't worry about them at all.

[sagegrouse]

Tone is difficult to convey via text sometimes. I was more or less mocking any complaint about his three high schools and being hyperbolic about his father's behavior. I appreciate your effort to find support through psychoanalysis of words on a message board to find support for your own argument. I would try that too if I realized that no one else really agreed with me.

I don't really think about parents before the kid starts playing for Duke. I'll admit I was concerned about Chuck Okafor and I couldn't have been proven more wrong, and after that, I decided I wouldn't worry about them at all.

Agreed. Wasn't our biggest recent problem Derryck Thornton's uncle?

[Dukehky]

Agreed. Wasn't our biggest recent problem Derryck Thornton's uncle?

I think Tank was one of the forces that helped push DT out, but that was AFTER DT got to Duke got here, but mostly behind the scenes. His "uncle" was the one who went on the tweet storm.

[sagegrouse]

I think Tank was one of the forces that helped push DT out, but that was AFTER DT got to Duke got here, but mostly behind the scenes. His "uncle" was the one who went on the tweet storm.

Not clear what you mean. Restate?