Car racing whaaaaa?

[kAzE]

I don't mean to offend any NASCAR fans, but personally . . . I probably wouldn't blink twice if NASCAR and all professional auto racing ceased to exist . . . I understand there's a sizeable audience who is really into it and it is a pretty big sport, but to me, it's an insanely dangerous sport, causing major injuries to the drivers and even spectators every year, and also, the millions of gallons of natural gas used annually in these sports to run cars in circles over and over seems like it could be probably put to better use . . . I wonder what happens to these sports when we're running dangerously low on fuel as a country in 50-ish years? (it's anticipated that the U.S. currently has enough to last for about 90 more years) I'm not even a huge environmentalist or anything, but news flash: this stuff doesn't just replenish itself overnight.

[YmoBeThere]

A single 747 flight between Beijing and NYC will burn more fuel than NASCAR will use in 5 or 6 races. The bigger fuel consumption comes more from people driving to and from the track.

And actually, clean water will be an issue long before fossil fuel exhaustion.

[Chicago 1995]

I've watched the video, and a couple of counterpoints to the coalescing consensus herein:

(1) I don't see anything in the video that seems to show Stewart trying to swerve out of the way;
(2) The gap between Stewart and the car in front of him was much greater than many of the media reports seem to imply;
(3) Tony doesn't seem to have slowed down as much as the two cars that go past Ward well in front of Tony.

That video, for me, isn't enough to say accident. If anything, the video makes a strong case for a manslaughter/negligent homicide charge in my mind. My best guess? Tony wanted to show the kid up and throw some dirt on him with his rear end.

Question: were they under yellow? Seems like it.

As for Ward leaving his car, obviously it was a dangerous, thoughtless mistake. But let's also remember that Ward learned that from guys like Tony Stewart. It happens in NASCAR somewhat regularly - albeit on a different surface with better traction. Let's not act like Wars was a complete wildcard doing what he did. Tony, Kurt and Kyle Busch and others Ward looked up to have done it without consequence for years. Tragic, awful mistake? Absolutely. Behavior so outside the realm of normalcy and reasonableness that it absolves Stewart? Not for a second.

[johnb]

Here's a deadspin compilation of Stewarts "lowest moments" as a hothead:
http://deadspin.com/tony-stewarts-te...-ot-1618964477

and here's what a friend of the deceased had to say:
“I know Tony could see him. I know how you can see out of these cars. When Tony got close to him, he hit the throttle. When you hit a throttle on a sprint car, the car sets sideways. It set sideways, the right rear tire hit Kevin.” http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...r-scandal.html

I'd certainly have a strong suspicion that Stewart used his throttle to fishtail to warn/scare the guy on the track. That's different from intending to kill him, but Stewart clearly did something besides just steering out of the way (though there also seems to be a suggestion that you steer with the throttle in such races).

[A-Tex Devil]

I've watched the video, and a couple of counterpoints to the coalescing consensus herein:

(1) I don't see anything in the video that seems to show Stewart trying to swerve out of the way;
(2) The gap between Stewart and the car in front of him was much greater than many of the media reports seem to imply;
(3) Tony doesn't seem to have slowed down as much as the two cars that go past Ward well in front of Tony.

That video, for me, isn't enough to say accident. If anything, the video makes a strong case for a manslaughter/negligent homicide charge in my mind. My best guess? Tony wanted to show the kid up and throw some dirt on him with his rear end.

Question: were they under yellow? Seems like it.

As for Ward leaving his car, obviously it was a dangerous, thoughtless mistake. But let's also remember that Ward learned that from guys like Tony Stewart. It happens in NASCAR somewhat regularly - albeit on a different surface with better traction. Let's not act like Wars was a complete wildcard doing what he did. Tony, Kurt and Kyle Busch and others Ward looked up to have done it without consequence for years. Tragic, awful mistake? Absolutely. Behavior so outside the realm of normalcy and reasonableness that it absolves Stewart? Not for a second.

I'm not sure how anyone can draw any conclusions from that video one way or the other re: TS. Without audio, or even a driver's view, things are moving too fast for any reasonable judgment to be made, at least imo. Anything else is conjecture and projecting intent based on our limited knowledge of Tony Stewart beyond the WWL. It's pretty easy to draw some conclusions with respect to Ward being on the track, both with regards to the motive and the

So presuming innocence from a criminal perspective, even if TS was *negligent* in a civil sense, I think Ward getting on the track is pretty damn contributory. And I'm not sure I care if other people have walked out on to the track. I've seen people come from infield or pit row to shout at cars coming by. I don't recall (although I'm sure I can be proven wrong) anyone coming from the top of the track down like that. If it's common in sprint car racing, it should stop. It's such an easy, easy fix -- ban anyone who does it for a prohibitive amount of time.

[mph]

As for Ward leaving his car, obviously it was a dangerous, thoughtless mistake. But let's also remember that Ward learned that from guys like Tony Stewart. It happens in NASCAR somewhat regularly - albeit on a different surface with better traction. Let's not act like Wars was a complete wildcard doing what he did. Tony, Kurt and Kyle Busch and others Ward looked up to have done it without consequence for years. Tragic, awful mistake? Absolutely. Behavior so outside the realm of normalcy and reasonableness that it absolves Stewart? Not for a second.

I think there are other differences between what Ward did and most other drivers have done. Most of the time these driver wait for emergency personnel to arrive on the scene before walking out onto the track. The pace car has usually picked up the field and the cars are single file by the time they point and yell or throw their helmet at the offending driver. They were under yellow when Ward got out of the car but it didn't look like the pace car had picked up the field so you had cars moving faster than pace speed in different track grooves. That's a very dangerous situation. Also, I'd contend that the difference between dirt and asphalt is a major difference all by itself. Enough that Ward should never have considered leaving the car until emergency personnel arrived.

Tony Stewart in action:


Still, I'm certainly not saying Ward's terrible decision absolves Tony Stewart of anything. He should be charged its there's proof that he either intentionally or negligently contributed to Ward's death. You and I just disagree about whether the video constitutes proof.

Interestingly, if Stewart had been in his usual Sprint Cup car there would be telemetry data that could be used to determine whether he gassed the engine as he approached Ward.

[bjornolf]

According to two former sprint car racers on the radio this morning, you steer these things in a slide with the throttle.

On a banked, dirt track, the car, whose right tires are significantly larger than the left, will fishtail more severely if you brake, and they basically drift the car around all the turns. So, these guys, who actually used to race this way, said the only way TO avoid Ward and get left away from Ward coming down from the right WOULD be to turn the wheel further left and try to accelerate out of his line against his momentum, but the chances of doing that quickly are very low.

The second thing they pointed out is that there are no spotters as there would be in NASCAR to warn him of Ward's presence.

The third thing they said is that these guys are encouraged to accelerate to quickly catch up with the pack before slowing down under yellow to minimize the length of cautions. So, though they were under caution, normal procedure is to hurry up to join the line.

Again, I'm no expert on this, but two former racers are saying this.

Also, I don't know if this is true, but one of the morning show guys this morning said he'd heard Tony had a go-pro camera on his car that the police were analyzing. Maybe if that video gets released, we'll have a somewhat better idea of whether or not Tony COULD have even seen the guy.

[Pacer]

My best guess? Tony wanted to show the kid up and throw some dirt on him with his rear end.

This is what I came up with too. I'm from (and still live in) Indiana and I grew up around the dirt tracks, one of which Tony now owns. My dad and uncles raced on these dirt tracks (stock, never sprints or midgets. But the sprints usually ran before the stocks so I saw a lot of it). That said, I don't think I've been back to a dirt track since the '80's.

I can't tell a thing from the video regarding intent. If I'm Tony and I'm coming up on the guy and heading for him, I can turn left to try and miss him, which would kick out my back end (which we see in the video). Similarly hitting the throttle would kick out the back end.

The only thing that seems to make some sense for me is that Tony was trying to spray the guy with mud as a "FU" or "piss off" for trying to yell at Tony for a racing incident. Tony either mis-timed it or assumed that the guy would stop coming down the track earlier than he did.

[JasonEvans]

A lawyer I heard on the radio pointed out a really interesting thing -- he said that if you determine that Tony was even a little bit responsible for the accident, then there could be significant civil damages. Lets say you said Ward was 99% responsible, because he was the fool walking all over the track. Well, if you determined that Tony was just 1% responsible then Ward's family would be entitled to some kind of damages. If you said Ward's future earnings and pain and suffering (instantaneous death, but there is something there) were worth $1 million then the 1% would entitle the family to $10,000. Pretty clearly, the family would argue that Tony is responsible for a lot more than 1% and that Ward's future earnings (as an up-and-comer in the racing world) were worth a lot more than $1 million so you can see how this could get to be a somewhat significant award.

Perhaps most significant to Tony though would be that the headlines would say that he was responsible for the death in some way, which could be a very dangerous thing in terms of sponsors. I bet Tony gives the family a fairly lucrative ($500k or more??) out of court settlement to not even file a suit and just go away.

-Jason "no one seems to be saying that Tony tried to hit the kid, but I've heard a good bit of speculation that he might have been buzzing the kid and it got out of control" Evans

[Reisen]

Speculation is great, but I don't know how you convince anyone of what was going through Stewart's head. All he has to say is "Uhh, I was driving a race car at night on a dirt racetrack and a pedestrian ran on to the track."

Short of a video of some exaggerated motion to hit him (ie. turning the wrong direction in a turn or backing up or something), I don't see how Stewart is ever charged, or how a civil suit is successful.

[BD80]

Speculation is great, but I don't know how you convince anyone of what was going through Stewart's head. All he has to say is "Uhh, I was driving a race car at night on a dirt racetrack and a pedestrian ran on to the track."

Short of a video of some exaggerated motion to hit him (ie. turning the wrong direction in a turn or backing up or something), I don't see how Stewart is ever charged, or how a civil suit is successful.

The family would not have to prove intent.

That said, Stewart just doesn't seem the sort to settle. In his mind, he is always right and the other guy is always wrong.

[mph]

-Jason "I bet NASCAR and other racing circuits adopt new rules about when you can and cannot leave the car after this" Evans

NASCAR adopts a new rule requiring drivers to stay in their cars until emergency personnel arrive. Link