The Open - Golf

[NashvilleDevil]

Hogan won a bunch late, too, if I recall, but I agree with you generally. Tiger's not on the same career trajectory Jack was in his late 30's. He hasn't won a major in 6 years, whereas other than the gap between his last two, Nicklaus never went more than two seasons his whole career without one. His body's obviously not holding up, while Nicklaus had no serious injury issues - his biggest problem was getting a little overweight when he was about 30, which he fixed. What's more, golf courses were changed specifically because of Tiger Woods's former game, which he no longer can play due to his creaky body, but which nearly every player of the generation that grew up idolizing him and is now in their prime has replicated. His former dominance has unwittingly aided in his current semi-obsolescence in a way that I don't think was true of Nicklaus.

Whereas Nicklaus worked a lot on his putting to re-invent himself a bit as an older golfer, I feel like Woods is lacking an identity as a player right now. If he can figure out a way to separate himself from the field in some aspect of the game again, then on the right courses he certainly will still stand a chance to win majors. But the old way - drive it better than anyone in the field, overpower courses, crush the par 5's and make every 5 foot putt presented you - well, someone just did that last weekend, and it wasn't Tiger Woods.

I never put much weight on the whole thing about Woods never coming from behind on a Sunday to win a major earlier in his career. He was ahead on Saturday night too often to have a whole lot of chances. But now, it feels like it matters more, because if he's to win another, I'm guessing that's the way it's going to have to happen. And it will have to occur without the magical wilting of the competition at the sight of his name and roar of an early birdie or two we used to see.

When Tiger was at his peak it was his because of his putting. I have not seen Tiger hit a big putt since the one that dropped at Torrey Pines to send the US Open to a playoff. If he can regain his putting stroke I think he will be in contention but putting is a fickle thing. Was it Johnny Miller who suddenly lost the ability to putt and was never the same after his brief run in the mid-70s?

[cato]

When Tiger was at his peak it was his because of his putting. I have not seen Tiger hit a big putt since the one that dropped at Torrey Pines to send the US Open to a playoff. If he can regain his putting stroke I think he will be in contention but putting is a fickle thing. Was it Johnny Miller who suddenly lost the ability to putt and was never the same after his brief run in the mid-70s?

Rory's putting last Saturday reminded me of Tiger back in the day. 10 years ago, I could imagine Tiger rolling in those eagles at 16 and 18. Not so much today.

I suppose he could find that magic again at a major, but I'm not optimistic. As you say, putting is a fickle thing.

[hurleyfor3]

When Tiger was at his peak it was his because of his putting. I have not seen Tiger hit a big putt since the one that dropped at Torrey Pines to send the US Open to a playoff. If he can regain his putting stroke I think he will be in contention but putting is a fickle thing. Was it Johnny Miller who suddenly lost the ability to putt and was never the same after his brief run in the mid-70s?

Miller was like that a little, but the guy that really describes was Watson. Made the turn at Oakmont in '83 and suddenly couldn't make a six-footer to save his life.

I do agree with that re Tiger. He's always been erratic off the tee, but at his best you'd know he'd figure out a way to save par or better. Seve was like that too.

[Tom B.]

Miller was like that a little, but the guy that really describes was Watson. Made the turn at Oakmont in '83 and suddenly couldn't make a six-footer to save his life.

Yep. Watson did manage to rebound and win the 1983 Open Championship at Royal Birkdale, but then he was done winning majors at age 33. He was in contention at the Masters and the Open Championship in 1984, finishing second in both. That was the last year he contended in majors on even a semi-consistent basis. He basically burned bright for an eight-year stretch from 1975 to 1983, and that was where he did all his damage.

[greybeard]

Not for nothing, but Nicholas' injured hip happened in 1963. He took 25, count em, cortisone shots in that hip in 10 days, which allowed him to play in that year's Masters and win it. He attributes his need for hip replacement to those shots, but has never said how many more over the years were needed to keep him going. He had the surgery just after the FDA approved a ceramic instead of the old metal stuff to be used in replacements. The latter worked poorly, according to Nicholas, and he became a spokesperson for the company that made the new joint-replacement parts.

The cause of Nicholas' hip problem is that he based his swing on the turn-in-a-barrel model originated by a guy name Percy Boomer. Nicholas explained that his thighs were 29 and 28 1/2 inches thick and that he pushed into that right hip without his right knee moving a centimeter, and made a 110 degree turn. The pressure buildup in the hip joint was enormous. Nicholas, unlike present day golfers, used to lift his left heal way off the ground as he turned back, down began by replanting and with an explosion beginning ground up through the hips back through the barrel. To win the Masters, Nicholas, who played his entire career before and since with a light fade, learned how to draw the ball which he said without explaining did not create the same kind of pressure into his hip. That, he said, was what allowed him to play in and win his first Masters a few months later.

A little slide was a component of most swings in those days (I read this same places I got the above information from); Jack's ability to eliminate it was huge.

But, what made Nicholas the Champion that he was, according to a pro I know who came up with him, was Nicholas' ability to nail 4 irons which were quite normal on par four second shots because, according to the pro, he was on his own level in alignment when it came to hitting them just where he wanted. Alignment, or as Bagger would put it, seeing the field. One can only imagine the boost that gave to his confidence regarding the rest of his game. You be nailing greens when other guys are missing them, what's a long putt? Alignment, seeing and being able to execute what nobody else can.

The long iron to the green has gone the way of persimmons; nobody has that shot anymore and nobody needs them, except before all those injuries to Tiger. Everybody loses some off the Tee into nasty stuff, especially in Majors. Everybody lays up in one fashion or the other, except Tiger. He is smash-mouthing towering 3 irons out of some nasty, nasty stuff and finds himself putting for birdie or eagle. The rest, why that is what guys like Tiger and Jack lived for, because they could do what the other guys couldn't.

I think if you go back to the Nicholas's last Masters, you will see that those long irons on the back nine on Championship Sunday were huge.

[NashvilleDevil]

Not for nothing, but Nicholas' injured hip happened in 1963. He took 25, count em, cortisone shots in that hip in 10 days, which allowed him to play in that year's Masters and win it. He attributes his need for hip replacement to those shots, but has never said how many more over the years were needed to keep him going. He had the surgery just after the FDA approved a ceramic instead of the old metal stuff to be used in replacements. The latter worked poorly, according to Nicholas, and he became a spokesperson for the company that made the new joint-replacement parts.

The cause of Nicholas' hip problem is that he based his swing on the turn-in-a-barrel model originated by a guy name Percy Boomer. Nicholas explained that his thighs were 29 and 28 1/2 inches thick and that he pushed into that right hip without his right knee moving a centimeter, and made a 110 degree turn. The pressure buildup in the hip joint was enormous. Nicholas, unlike present day golfers, used to lift his left heal way off the ground as he turned back, down began by replanting and with an explosion beginning ground up through the hips back through the barrel. To win the Masters, Nicholas, who played his entire career before and since with a light fade, learned how to draw the ball which he said without explaining did not create the same kind of pressure into his hip. That, he said, was what allowed him to play in and win his first Masters a few months later.

A little slide was a component of most swings in those days (I read this same places I got the above information from); Jack's ability to eliminate it was huge.

But, what made Nicholas the Champion that he was, according to a pro I know who came up with him, was Nicholas' ability to nail 4 irons which were quite normal on par four second shots because, according to the pro, he was on his own level in alignment when it came to hitting them just where he wanted. Alignment, or as Bagger would put it, seeing the field. One can only imagine the boost that gave to his confidence regarding the rest of his game. You be nailing greens when other guys are missing them, what's a long putt? Alignment, seeing and being able to execute what nobody else can.

The long iron to the green has gone the way of persimmons; nobody has that shot anymore and nobody needs them, except before all those injuries to Tiger. Everybody loses some off the Tee into nasty stuff, especially in Majors. Everybody lays up in one fashion or the other, except Tiger. He is smash-mouthing towering 3 irons out of some nasty, nasty stuff and finds himself putting for birdie or eagle. The rest, why that is what guys like Tiger and Jack lived for, because they could do what the other guys couldn't.

I think if you go back to the Nicholas's last Masters, you will see that those long irons on the back nine on Championship Sunday were huge.

Nicklaus

[jacone21]

He basically burned bright for an eight-year stretch from1975 to 1983...

It's amazing to read that and think that he just shot a 68 at The Open on Sunday. That's some pretty amazing longevity.

[mr. synellinden]

I still think the 2009 Open win (at age 59) would have been the greatest achievement in the history of golf and, at the very least, the best story in the history of golf.

I saw a segment on that during the Open last week in which his caddie said the approach shot on 18 hit on the downslope of a raised portion of the green (about 3 yards square) that caused it to shoot forward more than it would have otherwise. Amazing to think he might have been a foot or so away from having that shot stop on the green within 10 feet of the hole. I'm sure not a half a day doesn't go by that Watson doesn't agonize over that. One of those instances where the pain of losing may be more powerful than the joy of winning.