Ymm, Coffee

[gus]

How do you rate coffee made via a moka pot to that of a drip machine?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moka_pot

I've never actually made coffee with a moka pot - I have an espresso machine at home, and already have more coffee brewing devices than I need.

I have considered borrowing one to try - I've always heard it's good. My sister in law has one she never uses.

[Reilly]

I had a moka pot for years. Then, I got rid of it and I cannot remember why -- maybe had some green something/discoloration inside that wouldn't wash out and freaked me out. I really enjoyed the coffee from it, and should get a new one.

I don't know much about coffee -- never heard the term "bar", and that wikipedia entry seems to say that espresso via moka is not true espresso b/c not enough pressure.

I did greatly enjoy the coffee, and it tasted better than my Mr. Coffee drip machine. I never went so far as to grind my own beans, etc... Maybe it was just richer as I was using espresso grind rather than regular old drip machine grind.

I wonder how much of my moka appreciation/fascination has to do with how I first encountered it. I'd never heard of one or seen one, then I was in Spain, and that's how everyone was making coffee at home. I was fascinated, and the coffee was much better than anything I'd ever had in America, and it seemed sort of an old-fashioned way of making it, but cool, and stylish, just like the Spanish people. Elegant and simple.

Then, a decade later, I was in Maine, and my host had one, and we'd have espresso and hot milk every afternoon. Again, the Maine quality of life and pace seemed old-fashioned, yet elegant and simple -- and it brought back the Spanish memory of a decade earlier (no, I wasn't eating madeleine). So that's when I got my own Bialetti.

[-jk]

I love my moka pot! I drink too much for espresso and the moka coffee is much richer than drip. It's very reliable if a little slow.

-jk

[gus]

I had a moka pot for years. Then, I got rid of it and I cannot remember why -- maybe had some green something/discoloration inside that wouldn't wash out and freaked me out. I really enjoyed the coffee from it, and should get a new one.

I don't know much about coffee -- never heard the term "bar", and that wikipedia entry seems to say that espresso via moka is not true espresso b/c not enough pressure.

I did greatly enjoy the coffee, and it tasted better than my Mr. Coffee drip machine. I never went so far as to grind my own beans, etc... Maybe it was just richer as I was using espresso grind rather than regular old drip machine grind.

I wonder how much of my moka appreciation/fascination has to do with how I first encountered it. I'd never heard of one or seen one, then I was in Spain, and that's how everyone was making coffee at home. I was fascinated, and the coffee was much better than anything I'd ever had in America, and it seemed sort of an old-fashioned way of making it, but cool, and stylish, just like the Spanish people. Elegant and simple.

Then, a decade later, I was in Maine, and my host had one, and we'd have espresso and hot milk every afternoon. Again, the Maine quality of life and pace seemed old-fashioned, yet elegant and simple -- and it brought back the Spanish memory of a decade earlier (no, I wasn't eating madeleine). So that's when I got my own Bialetti.

Bar is just a unit of measurement for pressure. One bar is the amount of air pressure at sea level.

Great story -- food and drink are more than just nourishment and taste.

here's a good article about coffee preparation methods for newbies:
http://lifehacker.com/5778831/droppi...-coffee-making

I disagree that the French press is difficult to clean. Between presses: take the plunger out. Rinse it. Rinse the jar. Done. When done making coffee -- the plunger comes apart easily (at least on my bodum), and is dead simple to clean. The jar is just a big glass cup. There's nothing difficult about cleaning that. Also, he mentions sediment in French press. I usually don't get sediment: my grinder is consistent, I press the plunger slowly (like 3 seconds top to bottom) and I don't try to pour out every drop from the press.

[ArnieMc]

All the "single serving" machines (nespresso, kuerig, probably tassimo though I am not familiar with it) are basically fancy machines that reconstitute instant coffee.

I believe that you are dead wrong on that. Keurig K-Cups contain fresh ground coffee packed in nitrogen.

[gus]

I believe that you are dead wrong on that. Keurig K-Cups contain fresh ground coffee packed in nitrogen.

It is not physically or logically possible to consider k-cups to be "fresh" coffee. I've tried coffee from Keurig machines. I stand behind my assessment of the taste, but you're right: it's not *technically* instant coffee.

[Reilly]

... I drink too much for espresso and the moka coffee is much richer than drip ...

So then what you get out of the moka is not espresso or you do not consider it to be espresso? What makes something espresso? Is it simply the fineness of the ground + the pressure of the water?

Is no moka coffee technically espresso due to the lack of pressure? Even if an espresso grind is used?

Moka is often billed as an espresso maker, it seems.

In your moka, do you use a more coarsely ground powder (grind?, beans?) than what most would use in an espresso machine? I think I read on some forum this morning that one should dial back the grind just a notch from the espresso level for the grinding to put into a moka.

Finally, unrelatedly yet relatedly, why does Starbucks call cafe au lait "misto." Reading this thread and commenting on it made me want some better coffee than I make, so I went and got a Latte this morning. I think what I wanted was a "misto" but I didn't know about "misto" till later when hunting on the Starbucks website.

[gus]

So then what you get out of the moka is not espresso or you do not consider it to be espresso? What makes something espresso? Is it simply the fineness of the ground + the pressure of the water?

Is no moka coffee technically espresso due to the lack of pressure? Even if an espresso grind is used?

Moka is often billed as an espresso maker, it seems.

In your moka, do you use a more coarsely ground powder (grind?, beans?) than what most would use in an espresso machine? I think I read on some forum this morning that one should dial back the grind just a notch from the espresso level for the grinding to put into a moka.

Finally, unrelatedly yet relatedly, why does Starbucks call cafe au lait "misto." Reading this thread and commenting on it made me want some better coffee than I make, so I went and got a Latte this morning. I think what I wanted was a "misto" but I didn't know about "misto" till later when hunting on the Starbucks website.

Moka pots do not technically make espresso. (Nor do aero presses), because of the lack of pressure.

Starbucks probably uses Misto so they can trademark it.

[cato]

I believe that you are dead wrong on that. Keurig K-Cups contain fresh ground coffee packed in nitrogen.

So, it's not fresh ground coffee.

[fuse]

Bar is just a unit of measurement for pressure. One bar is the amount of air pressure at sea level.

Great story -- food and drink are more than just nourishment and taste.

here's a good article about coffee preparation methods for newbies:
http://lifehacker.com/5778831/droppi...-coffee-making

I disagree that the French press is difficult to clean. Between presses: take the plunger out. Rinse it. Rinse the jar. Done. When done making coffee -- the plunger comes apart easily (at least on my bodum), and is dead simple to clean. The jar is just a big glass cup. There's nothing difficult about cleaning that. Also, he mentions sediment in French press. I usually don't get sediment: my grinder is consistent, I press the plunger slowly (like 3 seconds top to bottom) and I don't try to pour out every drop from the press.

Neat article which led me to this

http://gizmodo.com/our-favorite-coff.../+shaneroberts

Aeropress conceptually seems pretty neat, if not altogether similar to a French press.
On the fence about switching routines- have to convince my better half but I am intrigued.

[weezie]

So, it's not fresh ground coffee.

Hah, lol, but maybe the nitrogen is fresh?

PS, I loathe Green Mountain coffee. Yuck.

Carry on...

[gus]

Starbucks probably uses Misto so they can trademark it.

I was bored, so I looked it up. Starbucks does not appear to have a registered trademark on Misto. They have this to say:

Equal parts rich-brewed coffee and frothy steamed milk, this beverage is well-loved in many parts of the world and goes by many names. While Italians call it caffè misto, in France, it’s known as café au lait, and in Spain, café con leche

I honestly have never been in an Italian coffee bar that sold a "caffè misto"; it's always been "caffè latte". Googling for it only turns up references to starbucks, or to a few cafes called "misto". And yet it's not a trademark, and they claim it's an Italian term.

[fuse]

Received an Aeropress for Christmas. Easy to use, makes great coffee.

Now I just need a bean grinder :-)

[Henderson]

Received an Aeropress for Christmas. Easy to use, makes great coffee.

Now I just need a bean grinder :-)

Yes. Yes you do. Even inexpensive ones make a big difference, and you can move up from there if you get into it.

I like various methods, beans, roasts, etc. Love my moka, love my pour over, love the occassional convenience of a French press with friends and the convenience of a Keurig when in a hotel, love my Cuisinart espresso machine. I've really enjoyed hot instant coffee on a cold morning backpacking. And the Greeks are crazy for iced and whipped Nescafe, which is just perfect in an Athens cafe at 6 p.m. on a July evening. Not crazy about Greek/Turkish coffee from a brika, but ymmv. I have Italian friends that insist on canned illy from a Bialetti moka, and I like it too. Anyway, my point is that variety keeps my coffee loving taste buds stimulated.

But of all the variables, I find that freshly ground beans make a bigger difference than other variables. Even beans that are not freshly roasted make good coffee if freshly ground, because if the beans are stored well, those compounds inside seem to be locked in somewhat. OTOH, once ground, the coffee flavors seem to dissipate.

BTW, a roaster friend of mine claims that coffee beans are best 24 hours after roasting, not right away. Something about off-flavor gasses dissipating? Insights there? I belong to a coffee club out of Minnesota (Paradise Coffee) and get my regular bean shipments from them, always a surprise variety. They roast and ship priority on Fridays for Monday delivery. Love the geographical, stylistc, and agricultural education involved in every shipment.

Hmm... Time for an afternoon espresso I think.

[fuse]

Yes. Yes you do. Even inexpensive ones make a big difference, and you can move up from there if you get into it.

I like various methods, beans, roasts, etc. Love my moka, love my pour over, love the occassional convenience of a French press with friends and the convenience of a Keurig when in a hotel, love my Cuisinart espresso machine. I've really enjoyed hot instant coffee on a cold morning backpacking. And the Greeks are crazy for iced and whipped Nescafe, which is just perfect in an Athens cafe at 6 p.m. on a July evening. Not crazy about Greek/Turkish coffee from a brika, but ymmv. I have Italian friends that insist on canned illy from a Bialetti moka, and I like it too. Anyway, my point is that variety keeps my coffee loving taste buds stimulated.

But of all the variables, I find that freshly ground beans make a bigger difference than other variables. Even beans that are not freshly roasted make good coffee if freshly ground, because if the beans are stored well, those compounds inside seem to be locked in somewhat. OTOH, once ground, the coffee flavors seem to dissipate.

BTW, a roaster friend of mine claims that coffee beans are best 24 hours after roasting, not right away. Something about off-flavor gasses dissipating? Insights there? I belong to a coffee club out of Minnesota (Paradise Coffee) and get my regular bean shipments from them, always a surprise variety. They roast and ship priority on Fridays for Monday delivery. Love the geographical, stylistc, and agricultural education involved in every shipment.

Hmm... Time for an afternoon espresso I think.

Any recommendations? I was looking at a Bodum burr grinder for about $150(?) on Amazon.

If you order coffee, you should check this place out.
I drank their coffee all last week- pour overs, espresso, cappuccino, macchiato- they knew what they were doing for sure.
http://store.ceremonycoffee.com/coffees/

[Henderson]

Any recommendations? I was looking at a Bodum burr grinder for about $150(?) on Amazon.

If you order coffee, you should check this place out.
I drank their coffee all last week- pour overs, espresso, cappuccino, macchiato- they knew what they were doing for sure.
http://store.ceremonycoffee.com/coffees/

Hey, thanks for the link! I'll check it out.

People who know more than I (i.e. 99% of people) say burr. But I had a $100 burr that didn't work that great. Now i use a less-expensive Cuisinart Grand Central and pulse the beans (on off, on off) to keep from heating them up.

But I would suggest not spending too much $$ until you know grinding works for you as a routine. You could then decide to upgrade if you find that grinding fits for you. Some people find that extra step an annoyance that doesn't work for their routine. No sense buying a Ferrari if you don't enjoy driving it.

More sophisticated coffee drinkers may disagree, but for me any reasonably decent grinder is better than buying pre-ground. It adds little to your time and imho makes a bigger relative impact than other variables you can control. Other than buying good coffee of course. The choice of grinder beyond that may be more than my palate can discern.

Others here are surely more discerning than I and could provide useful input.

[moonpie23]

i don't care for Starbucks, nor any of the "gourmet" stuff...but i have discovered and excellent "vintage" coffee blend that my clients all rave about...

I buy Southern Season's DOUBLE DUTCH CHOCOLATE beans, and just barely cover the bottom of the regular Mister Coffee $12 grinder....then i over-fill the grinder the rest of the way with Eight 'O CLOCK brand beans...just the regular ones in the red bag....

I grind it pretty finely, then pop them in the regular Mister coffee 12 cup drip maker...(but i only put in 10 cups of water...)


this blend is awesome...

[gus]

More sophisticated coffee drinkers may disagree, but for me any reasonably decent grinder is better than buying pre-ground.

The grind may be the single most important step in the process, from harvest to the water hitting the grinds.

A burr grinder is definitely the way to go: the whirly bird blade grinders add a lot of heat to beans and make a very inconsistent grind.

One I strongly recommend for the budget conscious is the Hario Skerton or the Hario Skerton slim.

https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/ha...on-coffee-mill
https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/hario-mini-mill-slim

There are excellent (and cheap) burr grinders.

They are also apparently easily adapted to attach to an Aeropress.

[fuse]

The grind may be the single most important step in the process, from harvest to the water hitting the grinds.

A burr grinder is definitely the way to go: the whirly bird blade grinders add a lot of heat to beans and make a very inconsistent grind.

One I strongly recommend for the budget conscious is the Hario Skerton or the Hario Skerton slim.

https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/ha...on-coffee-mill
https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/hario-mini-mill-slim

There are excellent (and cheap) burr grinders.

They are also apparently easily adapted to attach to an Aeropress.

You hand grind your coffee? That's pretty hard core!
Thanks for the recommendation.

My local coffee shop is grinding beans for me while I (over) research.

This week's beans have been pretty spectacular.
Ethopian Amhara Ayehu, supposedly notes of clover honey, caramel, red berry, sweet and juicy lemon acidity.
Not sure I get all those nuances, and it is a nice cup.

From Mexico, "Huatusco de Chicuellar"- heavy and smooth, rich mouthfeel with note of honey.

Descriptions from Crema in Cary- I wish I had the palate to discern those layers of flavour fully.

[devil84]

Disclaimer: I don't drink coffee. Too bitter for me. But the rest of my family does.

My son came home from grad school absolutely raving about the freshly roasted coffee available from a local roaster. Son-of-devil84 and Spouse-of-devil84 spent a while researching home roasting. They talked about needing only an air popcorn popper. Undaunted and unafraid, I began researching home coffee roasting to get them for Christmas gifts. Turns out, you can do it with an air popcorn popper, which, at $20, is a much cheaper alternative to a $175+ home coffee roaster. That and some green coffee beans ($6-8 per pound, not 12 oz package, available at several local home brewing supply stores) is about all you need. Coffee roasting is an outdoor exercise, as it is pretty easy to burn the beans and create some not-so-fragrant smoke that lingers a long time (never mind the piercing shriek of the smoke detector).

The popcorn popper, an electric Capresso conical burr grinder, and a sampler of beans went to my better half for Christmas. My son got the Hairo Skerton manual grinder and a few other kinds of beans. Son chipped in a French press, since he "borrowed" ours for his apartment. While the burr grinders weren't cheap, the popper and a couple pounds of beans would provide a novel activity over the holidays for only about $35. It would cost about that much to take the family to a coffee shop! I figured they'd have some mediocre coffee, learn something about roasting, and have a good time.

Coffee beans go from light roast to dark roast to scorched in a matter of minutes. It doesn't take long to conquer the learning curve, though. The first nearly burnt batch wasn't so bad, so they tried again. Success! It was proclaimed to be as good as, if not better than, many premium coffees. Subsequent roasting sessions raised the bar. Less than a week after roasting their first batch, they've decided that upgrading to an expensive home coffee roaster (that can be used inside) and roasting our own beans will not only provide them with coffee that tastes better than premium coffee, it will likely cost as little as the cheap stuff at the grocery store, even factoring in the cost of a low-end home roaster. They're in no hurry to upgrade, though, as the popcorn popper does a good job. The good news is that green coffee beans have a very long shelf life, so one can buy them in bulk, say, 5-20 pounds at a time, with prices closer to $4-5/lb. It's only once they are roasted that they lose freshness quickly, and of course, ground coffee loses freshness even faster.

After freshly roasting their coffee, they find grinding it in a conical burr grinder to their desired fineness gives a much better coffee than previously done with their blade grinders, even with the pre-roasted beans. Like gus says, the burr grinder grinds consistently and with less heat than the blade grinders. They brew the coffee using the French press or, if lazy, stuff it into the reusable Keurig pod. The Keurig makes a good cup of coffee, but apparently the French press is outstanding. (Again, I don't drink the stuff -- I'm just passing along information!)

One large caveat: NOT ALL HOT AIR POPPERS WORK FOR ROASTING COFFEE. Some aren't hot enough, others pose a fire risk due to how the air enters the heating chamber (short answer: you want side vents in the heating chamber, not a mesh at the bottom). Please do some research before dumping coffee beans into your hot air popper currently hanging out in your cabinets!