UNC Athletics Scandal - NCAA to reopen investigation

[cspan37421]

Au contraire... I want to see the administration/leadership suffer the full public shame they deserve. And the mass of fans around here who continue to deny and deflect and make excuses deserve to have the smug just completely wiped off their faces - if that's even possible. They flat out cheated. Period. It's to a point where I am almost ashamed to call them a rival.

Why stop at almost?

There was a lot of equity built up in the Duke-UNC rivalry. They have destroyed a lot of that value, IMO, and acted like a school much more suited to being in the SEC (and I'm not referring to Vanderbilt!). I look forward to the day when we have a rival that is more on our wavelength. I have moved on in that aspect of my fandom. It's a shame. I would prefer to hold on in my mind to the great history and thrill of Duke-Carolina games, but it's been an uneven playing field for a long time, and they apparently have no conscience about it at all, so my emotional attachment to the UNC rivalry is just broken. They're on another planet, ethically (and on the off chance that they're not, I don't need to be watching college sports at all).

[cspan37421]

A lot of my UNC fan's "don't really care about college sports as much anymore". We all know good and well that if a scandal like this was going on at Duke, they would be ALL OVER it.

As well they should.

IF, of course.

But right now the shoe is on their foot, it fits, and we must not acquit (them).

[SilkyJ]

It is much easier for the NCAA to punish football schools as the NCAA makes no money off football. Basketball is all that matters to them.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2...ayers/6973767/

I get your sentiment, but I dont think that really holds. All the NCAA basketball revenue (according to the article you linked) comes from the March Madness TV contract, which provides the NCAA with the same amount of revenue whether UNC plays in the dance or not. Punishing one school or even a couple is not going to diminish the value now or in the future. Its March freaking Madness.

The only difference I see is that every player on the '05 team not named McCants that took a paper class has now lied about it publicly. If the media reports are true that at least 5 players on that team took those classes, then 4 of them signedt a false statement that they attended classes that never met. If we've learned anything about the NCAA over the years, it that they hate being lied to more than anything. This is slightly different because it was a public statement and I'd highly doubt that any of those players will speak to the NCAA, but it would still be an instance in which the statements might not matchup with transcripts, especially if Nyang'oro now spills all about exactly which clases never met to get charges dropped.

Sorry, but don't think that holds either. They didn't lie to the NCAA as you said, and they will likely not ever speak to the NCAA. Yes, the NCAA hates being lied to, but there was no NCAA investigation even going on when they made that statement.

And, I think this is irrelevant to your point, but they didn't really lie in their statement. It was so softly worded, here's a link to it. They just really said we support Roy and aren't backing Rashaad. There are only 2 statements that could be construed as lying:

...we attended class and did our own academic work.

And

...our personal academic experiences are not consistent with Rashad's claims

Both are worded so carefully and ambiguously that you don't have to be a lawyer to know that a lawyer wrote it. "We attended class" not "We did not take no-show classes." And saying "not consistent" just means there experiences could have been a little different. They could have taken a bunch of no-show classes, but not had their course grades moved from one semester to another and they would be "inconsistent" with rashaad. No lying there.

We don't know what Nyang'oro or Crowder has said. Or whether there are other previously unhelpful people at UNC now willing to talk. James Michael McAdoo is listed as a potential witness by the complainants in the US Dept. of Educ. Office of Civil Rights investigation.

If you think about it, high profile investigations tend to bring previously-unknown witnesses out of the woodwork. If the thing is quietly and efficiently handled, people don't come forward. But when there's a big splash and others are coming forward, those closet doors start opening and people start realizing there is cover in numbers, making it safe to come out. We don't know how much of that has already happened out of the public eye.

Now this could make sense. Obviously we know that Nyang'oro is now talking so maybe there's something there. I'm still just not sure what they're going to find that's going to make this go around different.

Au contraire... I want to see the administration/leadership suffer the full public shame they deserve. And the mass of fans around here who continue to deny and deflect and make excuses deserve to have the smug just completely wiped off their faces - if that's even possible. They flat out cheated. Period. It's to a point where I am almost ashamed to call them a rival.

I said this 2 years ago. Let's find a new one...these guys aren't worth our time.

[moonpie23]

I'm not very interested in seeing UNC suffer like this

I'll cover that for you….

[blueduke59]

Valvano and NCSU suffered much more for much less. Those yelling the loudest from the tallest trees were the Holes. What did UNLV do that UNC hasn't? UK? Michigan? Yet to this day UNC folk still have the gall to look down on others. You'd think after what has transpired thus far they'd be just a tad humble. I hope they suffer supreme humiliation

[sagegrouse]

Valvano and NCSU suffered much more for much less. Those yelling the loudest from the tallest trees were the Holes. What did UNLV do that UNC hasn't? UK? Michigan? Yet to this day UNC folk still have the gall to look down on others. You'd think after what has transpired thus far they'd be just a tad humble. I hope they suffer supreme humiliation

This is the main point. What has and is going on at UNC is surely matched or exceeded at other schools: Gaw-Gia, Okie State, LSU, etc. A main difference is that UNC pretends to be different and really is different given its overall academic achievements.

This contrast -- hypocrisy, really -- is causing anguish among the savants in the UNC fan base and is at least one-half the problem.

[Jarhead]

The front page has a link to Barry Jacobs elegant article on the current NCAA moves. As always, he gives us a clearer view of the situation. Read it. You'll enjoy it. Now, can someone tell me how I can give Barry a bucket of sporks?

[devil84]

The front page has a link to Barry Jacobs elegant article on the current NCAA moves. As always, he gives us a clearer view of the situation. Read it. You'll enjoy it. Now, can someone tell me how I can give Barry a bucket of sporks?

Sorry, I can't help you get pitchforks for Barry until he logs in here and identify himself. He did a nice job on that article. But what stood out to me was a commenter going by the name of Jimmy Jazz (identifying himself with NCSU).

His first comment:

District Attorney Jim Woodall pointing fingers and marveling at the conflict of interest inherent in the NCAA is rich. How about the conflict of interest that may be inherent in his possession of not one, but two degrees from the University of North Carolina. Or how about the fact that he was once a partner in a law firm with none other than Jim Baddour, former state legislator and brother of former UNC Athletics Director Dick Baddour?

...

I'm asking: information needed by whom? By the citizens of the State of North Carolina, graduates and professors of the University of North Carolina? Or information needed by the University of North Carolina to sweep Nyan'goro's potential insight under the rug?

...

Yes, DA Jim Woodall has two degrees from UNC. I knew that. Didn't know he was a partner with Phil Baddour, former UNC AD Dick Baddour's brother (not Jim, as Jimmy Jazz said). I checked some sources, and Anne Blythe's N&O article about Woodall's ability to be impartial confirms these facts. The name "Blythe" caught my eye, and Anne Blythe is the brother of Will Blythe, the author of "To Hate Like This Is To Be Happy Forever." Quite an interesting person to write about being unbiased with regard to UNC.

Then Jimmy Jazz replied to himself:

I forgot to add an important tidbit. Reportedly, the judge handling Nyan'goro's case has a last name of none other than Baddour.

From a news story on the piece:
"Bill Thomas, Nyang’oro’s lawyer, was not in the courtroom where Superior Court Judge Allen Baddour was presiding."

Well, guess who Judge Allen Baddour's father is? Yes, Dick Baddour, former UNC Athletics Director.

Um, yep, Judge Allen Baddour is the son of Dick Baddour (source selected for best picture).

So, to summarize, the DA prosecuting Nyangoro has 2 degrees from UNC and was a partner with the former AD's brother, while the former AD's son is the judge in this case. (And someone who writes a news story about the DA's impartiality is the brother of the author of a book about the Duke/UNC rivalry and is unabashedly unbiased towards the Tar Heels?!)

Can this get any more biased towards UNC?

[Jarhead]

Sorry, I can't help you get pitchforks for Barry until he logs in here and identify himself. He did a nice job on that article. But what stood out to me was a commenter going by the name of Jimmy Jazz (identifying himself with NCSU).

His first comment:

Yes, DA Jim Woodall has two degrees from UNC. I knew that. Didn't know he was a partner with Phil Baddour, former UNC AD Dick Baddour's brother (not Jim, as Jimmy Jazz said). I checked some sources, and Anne Blythe's N&O article about Woodall's ability to be impartial confirms these facts. The name "Blythe" caught my eye, and Anne Blythe is the brother of Will Blythe, the author of "To Hate Like This Is To Be Happy Forever." Quite an interesting person to write about being unbiased with regard to UNC.

Then Jimmy Jazz replied to himself:

Um, yep, Judge Allen Baddour is the son of Dick Baddour (source selected for best picture).

So, to summarize, the DA prosecuting Nyangoro has 2 degrees from UNC and was a partner with the former AD's brother, while the former AD's son is the judge in this case. (And someone who writes a news story about the DA's impartiality is the brother of the author of a book about the Duke/UNC rivalry and is unabashedly unbiased towards the Tar Heels?!)

Can this get any more biased towards UNC?

Yeah, I took note of the Jimmy Jazz comments which, with your added information, makes me think that some sort of medieval plot is going on here. As a North Carolina citizen I keep wondering when the Attorney General of the State gets involved. Somehow it seems that all of this conflict of interest must somehow be illegal. The sad irony is that when that happens our discussions on this forum must end, but that'd be okay with me. I just want it to end.

[plimnko]

as a north carolina resident, i wonder how many of our tax dollars have been squandered in all this.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

as a north carolina resident, i wonder how many of our tax dollars have been squandered in all this.

I read online that this year's freshman class will have a mandatory $300 line item fee for this and future NCAA investigation legal fees.

Okay, I didn't really. But it would be amusing.

[ChrisP]

as a north carolina resident, i wonder how many of our tax dollars have been squandered in all this.

Amen to that! I am also a resident (and taxpayer) in the state.

[BD80]

... So, to summarize, the DA prosecuting Nyangoro has 2 degrees from UNC and was a partner with the former AD's brother, while the former AD's son is the judge in this case. ...

And the prosecutor was the law partner of the JUDGE'S UNCLE!

These carolina alums are crawling all over each other like a box full of hamsters

There is absolutely no semblance of impartiality here. Sigh, I guess its futile to even pretend there would or even could be.

[itshoopsbabee]

And the prosecutor was the law partner of the JUDGE'S UNCLE!

These carolina alums are crawling all over each other like a box full of hamsters

There is absolutely no semblance of impartiality here. Sigh, I guess its futile to even pretend there would or even could be.

"Orange County is the Chicago of North Carolina."

[blueduke59]

"Orange County is the Chicago of North Carolina."

LOL Gotta agree with this

[devildeac]

Yeah, I took note of the Jimmy Jazz comments which, with your added information, makes me think that some sort of medieval plot is going on here. As a North Carolina citizen I keep wondering when the Attorney General of the State gets involved. Somehow it seems that all of this conflict of interest must somehow be illegal. The sad irony is that when that happens our discussions on this forum must end, but that'd be okay with me. I just want it to end.

I don't think you want the AG of NC involved in this one either.

http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/9db5812c...oy-Cooper.aspx


Key excerpt from his bio:

"Roy Cooper attended UNC Chapel Hill as a Morehead Scholar and received his undergraduate and law degrees there."

I'd bet this Roy would love to get involved in this affair.

They're freaking everywhere.

[roywhite]

Under cover of a holiday weekend and a hurricane hitting the coast:

Charge dropped against former UNC African studies chairman

CHAPEL HILL, N.C. (WTVD) --
Orange County District Attorney Jim Woodall said Thursday he has agreed to drop a charge against former UNC-Chapel Hill African studies chairman Julius Nyang'oro in exchange for his cooperation in the ongoing investigation of an academic scandal at the school.

[Newton_14]

And the prosecutor was the law partner of the JUDGE'S UNCLE!

These carolina alums are crawling all over each other like a box full of hamsters

There is absolutely no semblance of impartiality here. Sigh, I guess its futile to even pretend there would or even could be.

To further D84's point, that has been the problem with this entire sordid ordeal the entire time. Same thing with the PJ Hairston charge dismissal last summer. The Chapel Hill Mafia (as me and a buddy have referred to UNC since High School) run this state, and the media. With Swofford they also run the ACC. Had this been any other school in the conference, even Duke, and especially NC State, the NCAA would have dropped the mega hammer long ago, they would be on probation in Men's & Women's Hoops, Football, and baseball, and PJ Hairston would have been kicked out of school and served jail time.

With a faithful Heel grad in every key position needed, they have every base covered to ensure everything gets swept under the rug nicely and neatly. And that my friends is the real definition of "The Carolina Way"

[miramar]

Under cover of a holiday weekend and a hurricane hitting the coast:

Charge dropped against former UNC African studies chairman

If I understand this correctly, the only charge against him was that he took $12K fraudulently since he didn't teach the summer school class that he was paid for, but he has made restitution so I assume that he would only have received a slap on the wrist anyway.

I just hope that he gave Wainstein plenty of information since obviously UNC could not have forced him to talk without this charge hanging over his head.

Nyang'oro is not a decent and honorable man as his lawyer says, but if he was forthright with Wainstein's team then this could be the best solution all around. Except for Roy and friends, of course.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

If I understand this correctly, the only charge against him was that he took $12K fraudulently since he didn't teach the summer school class that he was paid for, but he has made restitution so I assume that he would only have received a slap on the wrist anyway.

I just hope that he gave Wainstein plenty of information since obviously UNC could not have forced him to talk without this charge hanging over his head.

Nyang'oro is not a decent and honorable man as his lawyer says, but if he was forthright with Wainstein's team then this could be the best solution all around. Except for Roy and friends, of course.

The only way he even sniffs "decent and honorable" is if he demonstrates that he was pushed into this by UNC administration and/or athletic leadership. And now he's making amends and doing the "decent and honorable" thing by coming clean.

I was going back thru old articles and found one in which Kane documented email exchanges where an athletic counselor was clearly making strong suggestions about offering the easy courses during a certain summer session.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/06/...-chairman.html

Stop and think about just this... Counselors suggesting to a professor/dept head that he offer specific courses at a specific time. I believe that is the text book definition of the tail wagging the dog. And cheating.