A new feather in UNC's hat: stalking w̶o̶m̶e̶n̶ alumni

[throatybeard]

Mods, please move this thread to OT if you see fit. I have posted it on the EKB because I believe the roots of the behavior I am reporting lie in Carolina fans' animosity that arises from sports, at least primarily.

I hate to say this in polite, well, any company at all, but one of my wife's degrees is from Carolina. Her other degrees are from Berry College and Mississippi State. It was a business decision. In 2000, she needed an MAT (German and ESL), and Carolina offered an accelerated degree program where you could do all the coursework in a calendar year, Summer II-Fall-Spring-Summer I. I think being able to add the ESL cert was also an advantage Carolina offered. We wanted to do it at NC State, but it would take two years, more money, and I think she would have had to pick between German and ESL or do both for a longer time or something. In terms of the market, Carolina offered the more expeditious product (although I detest thinking about higher education in market terms). I was in PhD school and we didn't have hardly any money, and it just made sense at the time. She got a $3000 grant from the philanthropic concern in her home town in Georgia, gritted her teeth, and got it done in admirable fashion. She took care to disguise the fact that her spouse was from Duke/State, so that they wouldn't be nasty to her.

I have great respect for Carolina as a research university, this scandal with their athletes notwithstanding, as I've made clear before. But the culture of their fanbase and their alumni is one of sociopathic aggression, as everyone on this board knows, especially those who suffer North Carolina residency.

We have never given their alumni association any money. We have never given their annual fund any money. We have never purchased an alumni directory from them. We have never given them anything that wasn't directly tied to my wife's degree there. Tuition, fees, extortionary parking permit, that's it. I do have the misfortune of having taken two Linguistics courses over there through the consortium (although I loved my Syntax professor, who has since moved back to his native Germany). The Carolina kids ostracized us as soon as they knew we were from Duke or State. In 1992, I happened to be in Chapel Hill, when I was greeted by a vendor who had a t-shirt with simian-looking drawings of Brian Davis, Thomas Hill, and Grant Hill (and the main white guys on the team, to be fair) with the subtitle "Duke's National Chimps." I didn't buy the t-shirt, obviously, but I learned about Carolina.

Today my wife and I got a mail solicitation from them even though we have never given them a change of address. We moved house every summer from 2004 through 2008, and then again last summer to our current dwelling, in which I plan to spend the rest of my natural life. Put as plainly as possible, they are stalking my wife, through three residences in Mississippi and two in Saint Louis. We have never given them a change of address. I am considering sending a strongly-worded letter with as little profanity as I can manage, cc:ed to both their alumni office and their development office, telling them to remove us from their mailing lists. A fellow 1998 Duke alumna tells me that the USPS will allow an organization (i.e, Carolina) to pay USPS to give up your new address. That isn't the problem this time, because our house we bought in 2013 is a hundred paces away from our old condo, which we haven't sold, so we can still take the mail there off the renters' hands. We've never put in a forward request with the post office. There are no reasonable means by which Carolina should know our new address.

This is such a violation--you can move six states away from North Carolina and still be hounded by these aggressors.

It's bigger than the school itself. In North Carolina, the bedrock of the culture in the state is that UNC fans and alumni believe that they are entitled to create a pervasive atmosphere of abuse towards anyone associated with Duke, and to a lesser extent, State and Wake Forest. It's bigger than barbecue. In 1999, after Duke's 81-61 win at the Dean Dome, a crowd of over 100 people stood and cheered outside the Hinton James dormitory while three Carolina guys beat a Duke student. Hundreds of Duke employees are Carolina fans. They harass us on our own campus. They have vandalized our campus. After they beat us in 1998 over there, there was all kinds of graffiti on our own campus.

They spell the name of our school as a lower-case Southern synonym for human feces. They come over to start crap when the kids are camping out for games. And don't even think about attending an Duke game in the NCAAT stationed in North Carolina (see 2005).

I wore Duke and NC State gear (sometimes mixed) during my six years at NC State, and you know how many people tried to start crap with me in Raleigh? One, exactly one in six years. And he was a familiar I didn't like much, not a stranger. Wouldn't give him the honor of the title 'friend.' Most NC State people are capable of being decent human beings. Most Wake Forest people are capable of being decent human beings. Most Duke people are capable of being decent human beings. I know hundreds of Carolina people and have probably met thousands, and I know about ten or a dozen people from that culture who are capable of being decent human beings. I could probably make a list, it's so short. Most of the 10-12 are still Facebook contacts with me, and three or four are dear friends. But, big whoop. You're supposed to be decent to people. You don't deserve a parade for basic human decency.

I have a son to consider here. In North Carolina's public schools, UNC kids are savage to Duke kids because they know they have the advantage of numbers. I don't want him growing up in the climate of hate and hostility and intimidation they have created. I would never raise my son in North Carolina. Even being back in the state to visit family gives me the willies. I don't want him even knowing UNC-Chapel Hill exists. I don't let him watch Duke-Carolina games for that reason. I don't want him going to Duke, so that he'll never have to deal with these sociopaths. I've had Duke flags stolen from my dwelling. I've seen my campus vandalized. I've had my automobile with Duke stickers vandalized in front of my own house. (People keyed exactly two things, the left front quarter panel, and the Duke alumni sticker--this isn't a coincidence). They have the J-School and the Pharmacy school and the Dental school. This means that every time you go to get pills or get your teeth cleaned in North Carolina, someone at that office will be totally nasty to you if they know your affiliation.

Turning the other cheek does not work with these people. Believe me, I spent years trying to. Thank God I've been gone for a decade. These are the people who made "make [spelling of Duke synonymous with feces] walk" T-shirts after the February snow that they themselves abandoned their cars during on 15-501. Haha, hilarious. 67-year old coach with two fake hips whose brother just died. Make him walk eleven miles in a snowstorm you're afraid to drive in.

My wife and I have tried to see to it that Carolina has no contact with us since she finished her degree. Meanwhile, Duke loses me every time I move and I have to tell them where I am, sometimes twice.

What can we do to get away from Carolina? Is a strongly-worded letter to their alumni association and to their development office enough? Or do I have to do something like getting a cease-and-desist letter? IANAL, so I don't even know how that works.

[Wander]

Dude, I'm sorry you've had bad experiences, but you gotta put some serious thought into your level of sensitivity one of these days. What you described is nowhere near stalking, and for better or worse finding someone's address is absurdly easy these days.

[diablesseblu]

Throaty,

I was fascinated by your post. Grew up here in NC (and am much older than you). I thought my experiences as a member of a "token" Duke family in rural NC were unique. Apparently, that's not the case.

It's hard for me to admit, but I also have a graduate degree from UNC. Duke did not offer my program. I continue to be both saddened and somewhat mortified by my connection to Chapel Hill. However, I've sort of "embraced" their contacting me. Had a recent phone call (on a Friday night, no less) from their development arm. It was ostensibly for money but clearly was also for alumni feedback on their current travails.

The graduating senior who called was surprised by how informed I was about their "situation." Also, he shared that their feedback from most alums was that of unbridled outrage. I have donated a few bucks over the years to my professional school. But, I was very clear with him....not another dime until, and unless, the PTB there come clean about the issues involved. He said they are hearing that a lot.

I seriously doubt they will ever "come clean". However, there are more rumblings from esteemed faculty (mostly emeriti). You may enjoy reading this take from a venerable member of the Carolina community.

http://chapelboro.com/lifestyle/opin...-carolina-way/

If Bill Friday had not already died, this would surely put him in his grave. Sad stuff.

[throatybeard]

Throaty,

I was fascinated by your post. Grew up here in NC (and am much older than you). I thought my experiences as a member of a "token" Duke family in rural NC were unique. Apparently, that's not the case.

It's hard for me to admit, but I also have a graduate degree from UNC. Duke did not offer my program. I continue to be both saddened and somewhat mortified by my connection to Chapel Hill. However, I've sort of "embraced" their contacting me. Had a recent phone call (on a Friday night, no less) from their development arm. It was ostensibly for money but clearly was also for alumni feedback on their current travails.

The graduating senior who called was surprised by how informed I was about their "situation." Also, he shared that their feedback from most alums was that of unbridled outrage. I have donated a few bucks over the years to my professional school. But, I was very clear with him....not another dime until, and unless, the PTB there come clean about the issues involved. He said they are hearing that a lot.

I seriously doubt they will ever "come clean". However, there are more rumblings from esteemed faculty (mostly emeriti). You may enjoy reading this take from a venerable member of the Carolina community.

http://chapelboro.com/lifestyle/opin...-carolina-way/

If Bill Friday had not already died, this would surely put him in his grave. Sad stuff.

Thanks for your post. I too esteem Bill Friday. Among many other amazing actions, he endowed my adviser's chair at NC State.

Nonetheless, my chief aim at present is figuring out how to make sure UNC-Chapel Hill never contacts my household again. I will resort to legal action, if that is what it takes.

[JasonEvans]

Ummm, I open my mail next to the trashcan. This allows me to spend less than 2 seconds dealing with mail I do not want.

But a simple letter to the alumni office asking them to permanently remove your wife from their mailing lists should suffice. In the pantheon of wrongdoings by fundraisers, this is about the most minor offense possible.

-Jason

[sagegrouse]

Sounds like UNC is showing more diligence on alumni relations than on athletes' education.

I was the co-chair of my recent Duke reunion, and we had accurate data on about one-half the class and accurate email addresses on many fewer than that. All data were collected just from alums, not 3rd party data sources. "If they don't tell us, we don't know," was the word from Duke Alumni and Development. How refreshingly 1970!

[Duvall]

This is why a state should never have a school that is allowed to think of itself as the state's flagship institution. Too influential, too arrogant, too dangerous.

[superdave]

My favorite retort to fundraising calls is "why would I donate money when I am still paying off my student loans?"

I feel your pain, Throaty. The level of smug that still comes out of Chapel Hill continues to threaten the health of people everywhere.

[FerryFor50]

My favorite retort to fundraising calls is "why would I donate money when I am still paying off my student loans?"

I feel your pain, Throaty. The level of smug that still comes out of Chapel Hill continues to threaten the health of people everywhere.

Yea I always say "I already donated when I went to school."

College isn't just overpriced tuition; it's fees, housing, etc.

[UrinalCake]

I got an undergrad degree from Duke and a Master's from Vanderbilt, and both schools' alumni associations have managed to find me every time I've moved, even though I've never sent them my new addresses. I think this is pretty common. Maybe you need to send UNC a letter of disassociation! LOL

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

There is a fee-based service from the USPS and others called national change of address (NCOA). Every mail-based marketing effort worth its salt uses this type of data to maintain "fresh" mailing addresses. There are tons of standard software tools that help match names across existing and NCOA databases. Just pick up the phone and opt out.

Can we please change the thread title? Stalking is a serious offense. This may be annoying but that's it.

And the overly negative view of living in NC as a Duke fan... Wow. As a Durham resident with kids in elementary school, I just don't even know what to say. Should I teach my kids to run for the hills to some supposed safe haven? Or teach them them to be proud of their Duke heritage and stick up for themselves?

[diablesseblu]

This is why a state should never have a school that is allowed to think of itself as the state's flagship institution. Too influential, too arrogant, too dangerous.

Absolutely. I don't think it occurs to anyone at UNC that an alum would not want to hear from them!

If I were in this situation, I would send a certified letter marked "Addressee Only" asking that my name be removed from any and all mailing lists and with a
"Do Not Contact" annotation in the computer. In this case, would send to:

Doug Dibbert
Director of the General Alumni Association
101 Manning Drive Suite 6002 East Wing
Chapel Hill, North Carolina 27514
United States

Have your wife ask Dibbert to be the "point person" in getting all communication to cease. If it doesn't, then you'll have a record of communication to a responsible person who should have the "power" to make this happen.

I had no idea until recently that "mail forward" information could be purchased, but that explains some of the strange mail I've been getting lately.

[Henderson]

Sounds like UNC is showing more diligence on alumni relations than on athletes' education.

I was the co-chair of my recent Duke reunion, and we had accurate data on about one-half the class and accurate email addresses on many fewer than that. All data were collected just from alums, not 3rd party data sources. "If they don't tell us, we don't know," was the word from Duke Alumni and Development. How refreshingly 1970!

I've moved more times than I'd like to count in the 30+ years since I graduated, and I've never once given Duke or the Alumni and Development people a new address. They just find me wherever I move. Unfortunately, the same thing is true of AARP. We aren't that hard to find, and like Mr. Evans, I have a waste basket.

Throaty: Think of it this way: The Evil Doers are wasting all that money on your wife! Joke's on them.

[aimo]

I have lived in Durham all my life. Yes, we Duke fans were pretty much outnumbered by the holes, but I never experienced the levels of harassment you have mentioned. Usually when some hole feels the need to run his/her mouth about my Duke shirt, I am able to quickly turn the tides with a good smartass remark and soon everyone is laughing at him/her. Because they are idiots,or else they wouldn't be running their mouths in the first place. For example, a few years ago I was playing tennis with a bunch of strangers at Southern Boundaries Park here in Durham. I was wearing a pink ballcap with a Blue "D" on it, found it in the clearance bin in Harris Teeter. I'm just standing there waiting to return a serve, when I hear a deep voice mumble near me, "Ya'll gonna lose today." I looked around, feelings hurt, b/c I thought he was talking about my tennis match. I mean, he never saw me play - Geez! Then I saw who said it, some old fart in a UNC t-shirt and ballcap. This was Saturday morning of the ACC Tourney and the holes had almost lost the day before. My remark to him? "You ought be more worried about YOUR team after the way they played yesterday!" And that shut him up. I did not let him get a rise out of me. I simply pointed out the fact that is was an idiot hole. When the owner of my gym tells me he can get me a UNC t-shirt to wear instead of the Duke one I'm wearing, I say, "no, thanks, I have enough toilet paper already." I guess I'm just one of those obnoxious Duke fans.

[DUKIECB]

I am finding it hard to believe that this bothers you so much. If this is the biggest problem you have in your life consider yourself lucky. I think if you try really hard you just might be able to persevere and find a way to make it through it. Keep us posted. The suspense is killing me.

Sorry for the snarkiness but there are a lot of people in this world who are hurting and have real problems. Getting a couple of unwanted letters in the mail from a university you attended, in my opinion, is not one of them.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Is this mail addressed to you?

[MCFinARL]

I got an undergrad degree from Duke and a Master's from Vanderbilt, and both schools' alumni associations have managed to find me every time I've moved, even though I've never sent them my new addresses. I think this is pretty common. Maybe you need to send UNC a letter of disassociation! LOL

Yes, schools can be relentless when they want to. My daughter who transferred from UVA to Duke after one year still gets lots and lots of mail/requests from UVA (although, admittedly, they haven't tracked her to her current out of state address; the mail still comes here). My other daughter occasionally gets fundraising communications from the public magnet high school she attended only her freshman year (!).

If they are only sending mail and not calling all the time, you aren't doing that badly.

[oldnavy]

I have been amazed at UNC's persistence and ability to track me over the past 30 years... My wife doesn't even give me the letters anymore... straight to the garbage.

As far as fans go, UNC has a lot of snobbish fans who love to claim superiority over all others. Mostly I just ignore them, and I have never had an encounter with a stranger where I felt "threatened"... mostly good natured kidding which I can be guilty of as well.

I hacked a lot of folks off at UNC back in 80's by wearing a DUKE sweatshirt to class... pretty soon they just got used to it and left me alone which was a huge plus during my time at that zoo.

Curious, now that I think about it, I haven't had near the number of comments from UNC fans since the whole "academic" and PJ scandals broke... has that been others experience as well?

[Wander]

I am finding it hard to believe that this bothers you so much. If this is the biggest problem you have in your life consider yourself lucky. I think if you try really hard you just might be able to persevere and find a way to make it through it. Keep us posted. The suspense is killing me.

This is a guy who threw a large fit and genuinely thought it was a huge controversial moral outrage for Olympic Fan to say "I hate Yankees fans." If it wasn't for that, I might think the post was just a joke.

This is honestly the most embarrassing thread to these boards I've ever seen. It's the type of thing that makes me want to apologize to fans of other teams and say "hey, we're not all like this." I know it's the summer and we're bored for lack of actual basketball, but can the mods please delete or lock the thread? It really doesn't reflect well on us.

[jipops]

I have a son to consider here. In North Carolina's public schools, UNC kids are savage to Duke kids because they know they have the advantage of numbers. I don't want him growing up in the climate of hate and hostility and intimidation they have created. I would never raise my son in North Carolina. Even being back in the state to visit family gives me the willies. I don't want him even knowing UNC-Chapel Hill exists. I don't let him watch Duke-Carolina games for that reason. I don't want him going to Duke, so that he'll never have to deal with these sociopaths. I've had Duke flags stolen from my dwelling. I've seen my campus vandalized. I've had my automobile with Duke stickers vandalized in front of my own house. (People keyed exactly two things, the left front quarter panel, and the Duke alumni sticker--this isn't a coincidence). They have the J-School and the Pharmacy school and the Dental school. This means that every time you go to get pills or get your teeth cleaned in North Carolina, someone at that office will be totally nasty to you if they know your affiliation.

I have two daughters that have been going through this for the last few years, in a Wake County elementary school. My son is learning about it in kindergarten. The experience has actually made them realize this is all avoidable by not putting any sort of Duke fandom on display, which is of course sad but thankfully they don't really give in to it. But honestly, any sort of complaint about this predicament further fuels these heels' fans savagery. I guess my take on it is let them be morons. They have to live with themselves even more than we have to live with them.

Also, maybe you can try writing them a break-up letter. "It's not you, it's me... actually it is you."