Len Bias RIP

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Is it strange that I saw this thread and immediately got Len Bias mixed up with Len Elmore?

[Henderson]

Is it strange that I saw this thread and immediately got Len Bias mixed up with Len Elmore?

Not crazy. Lynyrd Skynyrd would have been an issue.

[OldPhiKap]

Is it strange that I saw this thread and immediately got Len Bias mixed up with Len Elmore?

Len Elmore has a clear bias. So I can see that.

[brevity]

Is it strange that I saw this thread and immediately got Len Bias mixed up with Len Elmore?

Wisecracks aside, I don't blame you. RIP threads are newsworthy, and this thread... isn't. It's an interesting thread with a bad title. "Len Bias, 28 Years Later" would make more sense.

Always found it weird that Maryland has a monopoly on the name "Len." If you knew nothing about recent college basketball, you could still make an educated guess where Alex Len played. (Same with Fab Melo and Desmond Hubert.)

[Newton_14]

Wisecracks aside, I don't blame you. RIP threads are newsworthy, and this thread... isn't. It's an interesting thread with a bad title. "Len Bias, 28 Years Later" would make more sense.

Always found it weird that Maryland has a monopoly on the name "Len." If you knew nothing about recent college basketball, you could still make an educated guess where Alex Len played. (Same with Fab Melo and Desmond Hubert.)

I am just disappointed that what was obviously put up as a thread to pay homage to a great player who lost his life far to young, was turned into attacking his character an arguing that he wasn't that good anyway. That should not have happened. The kid was a great player and made a terrible mistake that cost him his life.

Thatnks to Henderson for trying to do the right thing with good intentions, but at this point the thread should just be closed in my opinion.

[Edouble]

I am just disappointed that what was obviously put up as a thread to pay homage to a great player who lost his life far to young, was turned into attacking his character an arguing that he wasn't that good anyway. That should not have happened. The kid was a great player and made a terrible mistake that cost him his life.

Thatnks to Henderson for trying to do the right thing with good intentions, but at this point the thread should just be closed in my opinion.

Who attacked his character? I've read the whole thread and I don't recall anyone attacking his character. If someone did, it was maybe like one post.

I hope the thread remains open, because I have enjoyed reading about this player's greatness that I was too young to witness.

I find the debate as to his place in the ACC pantheon to be fascinating. If he was one of the Top 10 ACC players ever during his prime, the ensuing 30 year's worth of players have clearly challenged Bias and his legacy.

[Reilly]

more statistical analysis

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=4011

[Olympic Fan]

more statistical analysis

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=4011

Appreciate the link ... and while I'm not aware of the author and his credentials, he did make the point I have been trying to make -- that while Bias was a great player and a great prospect, the tragic circumstances of his death have warped our perception of him:

However, in college Bias didn't rebound or contribute in non-scoring areas as much as his fellow prospects (historical, modern, you name it) did, and his NCAA efficiency numbers were sub-par. I'm not saying he would be a bust or even that it would have been impossible for him to be a star, but I am saying that we might have allowed Bias' tragic and untimely passing to distort the way we viewed his potential.

PS I'm not sure whether I'm the poster that Newton thinks was "attacking his character" or not, but I don't think it is out of line to remind people that Bias DID die of a drug overdose and to point out that his death did have a tremendous impact on how the public viewed athletes and drug use. Indeed, in a historical context, that's probably his greatest legacy.

I also think there is a difference in talking about a death in the immediate aftermath. Personally, I try never say or post bad or hurtful things about someone who just died -- even when I think they are scum (and I am NOT saying Bias was scum -- just a foolish young man who made a tragic mistake). But Len Bias died 28 years ago. At some point, it's got to be fair game to discuss a historical figure without worrying about hurting somebody's feelings. I think the statute of limitations has run out in Bias' case -- I'm not going to lie or smear him, but I think an honest discussion of what really happened ... and an honest debate about his stature as a player (which I think we've had in this thread) are fair and reasonable.

[Reilly]

Appreciate the link ... and while I'm not aware of the author and his credentials ...

Apparently works with Nate Silver at fivethirtyeight.com:
http://www.sports-reference.com/blog...vethirtyeight/

He did make the point you were making. I still maintain that Bias is/was one of the "all-time greats" in the ACC by virtue of his two player of the year awards and top 2 NBA draft status. I do not believe my assessment is warped at all by Bias's early death. It may be warped --or, informed -- by my having been exposed to the DC media on a daily basis and very closely following the ACC during Bias's four years.

[Henderson]

Apparently works with Nate Silver at fivethirtyeight.com:
http://www.sports-reference.com/blog...vethirtyeight/

He did make the point you were making. I still maintain that Bias is/was one of the "all-time greats" in the ACC by virtue of his two player of the year awards and top 2 NBA draft status. I do not believe my assessment is warped at all by Bias's early death. It may be warped --or, informed -- by my having been exposed to the DC media on a daily basis and very closely following the ACC during Bias's four years.

Agreed. Some attributes just don't translate into quant-speak. I think people who saw him play his last two years, overall, probably see Len Bias differently than people just looking at charts and graphs and complicated statistical formulas. Shortly after he died (or maybe right before?) Larry Bird said he'd give up his summer to practice with Len Bias, something (according to Bird) he wouldn't say about any other rookie. Bird knew Bias was a special talent. Even at the time, I remember clearly that there was this sense that Secretariat had died. It's not just nostalgia.

[Newton_14]

Agreed. Some attributes just don't translate into quant-speak. I think people who saw him play his last two years, overall, probably see Len Bias differently than people just looking at charts and graphs and complicated statistical formulas. Shortly after he died (or maybe right before?) Larry Bird said he'd give up his summer to practice with Len Bias, something (according to Bird) he wouldn't say about any other rookie. Bird knew Bias was a special talent. Even at the time, I remember clearly that there was this sense that Secretariat had died. It's not just nostalgia.

Totally agree and your memory is correct on Bird. That's exactly what he intended to do. His death has not caused his legend to grow. That's hogwash. The guy was phenomenal and a special talent as you opine above. And the fact that he died by foolishly taking a drug he should not have taken doesn't make him a bad kid with horrible character.(It aint like he is the only ACC player to ever ingest that drug into his body either. Let's not be naive there. He made a big mistake. He paid the ultimate price. He was still a transcendent talent destined for great things.