Water Well Issues- No Fun

[Newton_14]

Well, after 20 years, the well that supplies my house suddenly quits producing water. We finally declared it dead after sinking about $2K into it, including taking it 100 ft deeper to 400 ft total, installing new liner and packing gravel between the liner and inner wall of the well (wells here are 6 inch in diameter). We have no access to city water, and I built my house on our family farm, that has been owned by my family since 1925, so moving is not an option either.

I had a guy from NC State out here today. He and another younger, business partner, are geologists with a contraption I believe is called a "magnotometer" or something like that. I will ask. They have mappings of underground rock formations referred to as dykes, and those formations are the most likely place to hit water. It's expensive though. We had some promising leads today but no luck with readings when using the machine. He is coming back Thursday to try again.

I have several friends that have called upon these guys and though they offer no guarantees, all my neighbors were successful. The lowest was a well producing 5 to 8 gallons per minute, some between 10 to 15 gpm, and one hit 30 gpm.

This has been a pain. Going elsewhere to take baths, wash clothes, etc. Good news is, the guy who will drill the well told us he would come drill as soon as I determine where.

Praying we find something Thursday. For grins and giggles I did have a guy come out that does the ol fashion "witching", but unlike 20 years ago, (that's the method used for my original well) I just do not have any faith in that process at all. None of it is a guarantee but give me at least some semblance of technology over a guy with a branch or copper rods in his hand any day.

Any well experts or geologists out there with advice?

Thanks in advance. All prayers are welcome too!

[BD80]

... all my neighbors were successful. The lowest was a well producing 5 to 8 gallons per minute, some between 10 to 15 gpm, and one hit 30 gpm. ...

I may have figured out why your well ran dry ...

[duke79]

Well, after 20 years, the well that supplies my house suddenly quits producing water. We finally declared it dead after sinking about $2K into it, including taking it 100 ft deeper to 400 ft total, installing new liner and packing gravel between the liner and inner wall of the well (wells here are 6 inch in diameter). We have no access to city water, and I built my house on our family farm, that has been owned by my family since 1925, so moving is not an option either.

I had a guy from NC State out here today. He and another younger, business partner, are geologists with a contraption I believe is called a "magnotometer" or something like that. I will ask. They have mappings of underground rock formations referred to as dykes, and those formations are the most likely place to hit water. It's expensive though. We had some promising leads today but no luck with readings when using the machine. He is coming back Thursday to try again.

I have several friends that have called upon these guys and though they offer no guarantees, all my neighbors were successful. The lowest was a well producing 5 to 8 gallons per minute, some between 10 to 15 gpm, and one hit 30 gpm.

This has been a pain. Going elsewhere to take baths, wash clothes, etc. Good news is, the guy who will drill the well told us he would come drill as soon as I determine where.

Praying we find something Thursday. For grins and giggles I did have a guy come out that does the ol fashion "witching", but unlike 20 years ago, (that's the method used for my original well) I just do not have any faith in that process at all. None of it is a guarantee but give me at least some semblance of technology over a guy with a branch or copper rods in his hand any day.

Any well experts or geologists out there with advice?

Thanks in advance. All prayers are welcome too!

Good luck with the hunt for water. I understand your anxiety. We live on an 18th century farm with a well for our water (no town water available) and the worry is always in the back of my mind that the well will go dry. We have an electric pump for the well and, when we lose electricity, it is a pain being without running water. Living in a modern society, you don't realize how reliant you are on running water. We've also had friends and neighbors have their wells go dry during extended dry periods. We've been lucky that we have always had a fairly good flow of water into our well, but you never know when that may end.

I've seen "dowsers" at work with their diving rods. It is quite common for people around here to hire them when they need to sink a new well, to help them search for the place with the most water. I'm HIGHLY skeptical that they have any real skill and the scientific tests that have been done show likewise. The fact is that if you sink a deep enough well almost anywhere, you may find water.

Good luck with the search for water!!

[weezie]

Oh man, what a bummer. Country living, I share the apprehensions.
Best of luck and hope you have some swell pressure tanks lined up, too.

[-jk]

A few years ago, we had to dig a new well in the mountains. 300 feet of solid rock later (and the bill to prove it!), and we got 5 gpm of rather rusty water.

-jk

[Newton_14]

A few years ago, we had to dig a new well in the mountains. 300 feet of solid rock later (and the bill to prove it!), and we got 5 gpm of rather rusty water.

-jk

Thanks for all the best wishes guys. Yeah -jk, I have a Aunt that lived in West Virginia high up on a mountain and their well water had that same rust and also the rotten egg smell. You could not get that stuff to lather up good with soap.

The well I had was not on one of the rock dykes and was good water. Very clear originally with great taste and no smell. It ended up collapsing after a pipe burst and ran it dry in 1998, and to be honest we have been having issues every since. It would burn up a pump about two times per year. I never imagined it would go dry but here we are.

The geologist is coming back tomorrow. I have walked a lot the past two days looking for the surface rock and for crops of rock. I found a crop but it is over 1000 feet or more away from my house, but found numerous surface rock, loose, in a line that ran about 120 yards. That was not even 30 feet behind my house. Hard to tell where the dyke is though, that they came from. Praying it is close by and we find it tomorrow.

Stay tuned, and again thanks for the good thoughts and prayers. We need them.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I hope you get some news soon. I've lived a time with well water as the only source of water... it can be tough!

[Reilly]

I contacted my city councilwoman's office recently because I thought the $185/quarter water bill was somehow a mistake. Turns out that is the minimum charge per quarter (would get that charge even if zero gallons of water are used).

Don't know if that makes you feel better or worse about the well woes ... just thought I'd share.

[budwom]

Thanks for all the best wishes guys. Yeah -jk, I have a Aunt that lived in West Virginia high up on a mountain and their well water had that same rust and also the rotten egg smell. You could not get that stuff to lather up good with soap.

The well I had was not on one of the rock dykes and was good water. Very clear originally with great taste and no smell. It ended up collapsing after a pipe burst and ran it dry in 1998, and to be honest we have been having issues every since. It would burn up a pump about two times per year. I never imagined it would go dry but here we are.

The geologist is coming back tomorrow. I have walked a lot the past two days looking for the surface rock and for crops of rock. I found a crop but it is over 1000 feet or more away from my house, but found numerous surface rock, loose, in a line that ran about 120 yards. That was not even 30 feet behind my house. Hard to tell where the dyke is though, that they came from. Praying it is close by and we find it tomorrow.

Stay tuned, and again thanks for the good thoughts and prayers. We need them.

I know it sounds kind of crazy, but if you have any touted dowsers in the area, give one a try...I know several people for whom this has worked remarkably well (pun intended).
(Annual US dowsing convention in Vermont is quite a sight).

As for rust or iron in the water, there are now some very good, affordable non chemical filters which work splendidly.

In the meantime, I hope your septic system is holding up, the other bete noir of country living. Horrible things when they go wrong...

p.s. if you Google "water dowsing" there is a Popular Mechanics article which mentions how a Univ. of Munich study gave dowsing a great deal of credibility, despite considerable scientific scorn.
I do know that some local well drillers actively use dowsers to help them find water, and these are not frivolous people.

[Newton_14]

I contacted my city councilwoman's office recently because I thought the $185/quarter water bill was somehow a mistake. Turns out that is the minimum charge per quarter (would get that charge even if zero gallons of water are used).

Don't know if that makes you feel better or worse about the well woes ... just thought I'd share.

Thanks. City water comes with its own issues for sure. Regulations and monthly bills kill you for sure.

I know it sounds kind of crazy, but if you have any touted dowsers in the area, give one a try...I know several people for whom this has worked remarkably well (pun intended).
(Annual US dowsing convention in Vermont is quite a sight).

As for rust or iron in the water, there are now some very good, affordable non chemical filters which work splendidly.

In the meantime, I hope your septic system is holding up, the other bete noir of country living. Horrible things when they go wrong...

p.s. if you Google "water dowsing" there is a Popular Mechanics article which mentions how a Univ. of Munich study gave dowsing a great deal of credibility, despite considerable scientific scorn.
I do know that some local well drillers actively use dowsers to help them find water, and these are not frivolous people.

Thanks for this info. Will definitely research it. The geologists found a dike and we selected a drill spot but it is some 1200+ feet from my house. Long ways to run wire and pipe. Will need to upgrade the size of the pump and wire (at least 8 gauge) and possibly the water pipe. Not going to be cheap.

[devildeac]

Thanks. City water comes with its own issues for sure. Regulations and monthly bills kill you for sure.



Thanks for this info. Will definitely research it. The geologists found a dike and we selected a drill spot but it is some 1200+ feet from my house. Long ways to run wire and pipe. Will need to upgrade the size of the pump and wire (at least 8 gauge) and possibly the water pipe. Not going to be cheap.

And we thought replacing our PVC (or was it PVB?) piping from the curb to the house at two different houses () was expensive. I feel for you, man. Best of luck.

[budwom]

Thanks. City water comes with its own issues for sure. Regulations and monthly bills kill you for sure.



Thanks for this info. Will definitely research it. The geologists found a dike and we selected a drill spot but it is some 1200+ feet from my house. Long ways to run wire and pipe. Will need to upgrade the size of the pump and wire (at least 8 gauge) and possibly the water pipe. Not going to be cheap.

One more word on dowsers: if you Google dowsers and well drilling, you will find that quite a few well drillers use them. In almost every case, they charge either no money for this or just a nominal fee. One can choose to believe or not
believe in the process, but it's not some financial scam. Best of luck, I know water issues really suck. Too much is bad. Not enough is bad. Let us know how it turns out.

[Newton_14]

One more word on dowsers: if you Google dowsers and well drilling, you will find that quite a few well drillers use them. In almost every case, they charge either no money for this or just a nominal fee. One can choose to believe or not
believe in the process, but it's not some financial scam. Best of luck, I know water issues really suck. Too much is bad. Not enough is bad. Let us know how it turns out.

Thanks bud. I have not ruled out witching/dowsing yet.

Update. I am in a mess quite frankly. Working with the two geologists (i highly recommend these two guys to anyone needing to find water) we did locate a dike. Got great readings on the magnotometer in several spots along the line where the dike runs. Unfortunately, I have three problems. 1. The prospective drill spots are anywhere from 1100 to 1500 feet from my house. 2. Most of them, if not all of them, are on my neighbors land, just off my property line in spots. It is possible that the dike crosses my land in one area, but it is hard to tell at this point, which leads me to problem 3. The dike is in the woods, and at some points deep. Definitely will have to get a dozer in there to clear a path for the drill rig to get to the spot. There is also a deep creek that snakes back and forth along the dike and the deepest part of the creek is on the land I own. If one of the good drill spots is on my land, the creek and lots of trees are in play. It would cost a lot of money to clear the trees and build some semblance of a road/path, to both get the drill rig in there and then dig the trench to run the pipe and wire from there back to my house. It would also take a bigger than normal pump, at least 8 gauge wire, possibly 6, and possibly a larger size pipe than the normal 1 inch. If I have to drill on my neighbors land, we will have to get a legal document drawn up for an easement as well. Fortunately the neighbor is a long time family friend and has already agreed to that part.

So it is either that, or fall back to the witching/dowsing method and get someone who does that to come out and try to identify a spot close to my house to avoid all of the expense I will incur if I choose to drill on the dike line. The risk there is digging 3 or 4 dry holes and wasting money for no water. I am really torn at this point on which choice to make. The geologists are coming back tomorrow to check one more spot closer to my house where I found the right kind of rock yesterday and today. Hopefully they will determine there is a dike running through there and get good readings on the magnotometer. Otherwise, I have a really difficult decision to make.


I am still a bit amazed that given all the technology we have today, there is no way to positively identify and locate sand rock based water veins underground. (The dikes have "diabase" rock. Not sure if that spelling is correct...

I will let you know what we find tomorrow. Thanks all.

N_14
Go Duke! 2014 Lacrosse National Champs!!!

[cspan37421]

Thanks bud. I have not ruled out witching/dowsing yet.

You should, because it's classic pseudoscience.

OTOH if they work on contingency and will pay for the cost of drilling false positives, then fine, nothing to lose but your time.

[budwom]

You should, because it's classic pseudoscience.

OTOH if they work on contingency and will pay for the cost of drilling false positives, then fine, nothing to lose but your time.

Well, it does seem like pseudoscience, but like I said, SOME studies (Univ. of Munich via Popular Mechanics) have shown value.
What I DO know is that LOTS of well drillers use dowsers...and they are in the business of finding water ASAP...like I said, dowsers typically charge close to nothing.
Three of the biggest drillers around here use them and have found considerable value...put it this way: if you're in a bind and nothing has worked so far, why not try an
option that doesn't cost any/much money?

By the way, I remember 30 years ago when acupuncture was roundly considered as pseudoscience. Laughed at by western medicine...now it's not quite as laughable.

[ricks68]

I have also been having terrible issues with the odor and the mineral deposits around my fixtures from a new well. We tested the water and found both sulfur and magnesium. We then put in some kind of aeration system that may have taken care of the sulfur, but has evidently not taken care of the magnesium. It still stinks and still leaves the mineral deposits. Any knowledge out there that may help?

ricks

[mattman91]

I have also been having terrible issues with the odor and the mineral deposits around my fixtures from a new well. We tested the water and found both sulfur and magnesium. We then put in some kind of aeration system that may have taken care of the sulfur, but has evidently not taken care of the magnesium. It still stinks and still leaves the mineral deposits. Any knowledge out there that may help?

ricks

Sure it isn't just the hippy stench blowing up from downtown?

[ricks68]

Sure it isn't just the hippy stench blowing up from downtown?

No, it's not. Maybe it might be coming from the hippy stench from WITHIN my house, however. (Did you see that Asheville Brewing's Ninja Porter won the best Porter in the country at the craft beer competition in Colorado about a month ago, by the way?)

ricks

[cspan37421]

By the way, I remember 30 years ago when acupuncture was roundly considered as pseudoscience. Laughed at by western medicine...now it's not quite as laughable.

There is no sound scientific evidence for acupuncture effectiveness, beyond the placebo effect. Sham acupuncture (not breaking the skin, not using the correct "points") has been shown in a controlled study to work equally well. There's no real mechanism by which it works, nor do qi or meridians have any correlates in the physical, observable world.

The plural of anecdote is not data, and one study on dowsing in a German journal does not negate what we know from many more well-controlled and designed studies. Like with acupuncture, there's nothing in water that would move dowsing rods in someone's hand. The rods move due to the ideomotor effect (in the best of circumstances).

The James Randi Educational Foundation has a million dollars ready for someone who can demonstrate dowsing ability to the point of statistical significance, i.e., beyond chance results. No one has yet been able to win the prize. It's a curious fact that the better designed and controlled the study, the less such extraordinary abilities can be demonstrated.

[OldPhiKap]

There is no sound scientific evidence for acupuncture effectiveness, beyond the placebo effect. Sham acupuncture (not breaking the skin, not using the correct "points") has been shown in a controlled study to work equally well. There's no real mechanism by which it works, nor do qi or meridians have any correlates in the physical, observable world.

The plural of anecdote is not data, and one study on dowsing in a German journal does not negate what we know from many more well-controlled and designed studies. Like with acupuncture, there's nothing in water that would move dowsing rods in someone's hand. The rods move due to the ideomotor effect (in the best of circumstances).

The James Randi Educational Foundation has a million dollars ready for someone who can demonstrate dowsing ability to the point of statistical significance, i.e., beyond chance results. No one has yet been able to win the prize. It's a curious fact that the better designed and controlled the study, the less such extraordinary abilities can be demonstrated.

IIRC, Duke had a paranormal studies program at some point, maybe quietly discontinued in the 1990's. FWIW.