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Thread: 2014 NBA Draft

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Chad Ford chat from yesterday, post-lottery. He gets into teams trading into and out of the lottery, as well as the Cavs-Love stuff.

    One intriguing trade deal that could make a lot of sense: Philly sends the #3 to Utah for the #5, #23 and one of two 4th year players Enes Kanter (12.3 and 7.5 in 26 minutes last season) or Alec Burks (14 pts in 28 minutes).

    Utah gets LDS star Jabari Parker at #3, assuming Embiid's back checks out and he and Wiggins go 1-2. Philly would get either a starting 2-guard in Burks or a 4 in Kanter to play alongside Noel. Philly could also draft one of Gordon/Randle/Vonleh at #5 and a role player such as Napier/McGary/Warren at #23.

    Would Philly rather have Parker (or Embiid/Exum) at #3 - all starters and potential All-Stars, or would they rather have Kanter/Burks plus Vonleh/Randle/Gordon plus a role player? It's essentially a potential star vs. depth. I am guessing Philly stands pat at #3 and winds up with Parker being their leading scorer for the next dozen years.
    Do the trade. Vonleh has great potential, both Kanter and Burks are solid players -- either would be a nice piece for the 76ers. The 76ers have about a million picks this draft, they have to trade some of them -- 4 2nd round for picks for a late 1st maybe?

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    I don't quite see the McGrady comparison, because I just don't envision Wiggins becoming the type of shot-maker T-Mac was at his prime. Wiggins will probably never lead the league in scoring, but defensively, he's probably going to be much better. He's way more scrappy and hustles, so I see him grabbing more rebounds than T-Mac's career average of 3 per game. Harrison Barnes doesn't strike me as a good comparison either. Aside from the fact that Barnes sucks at basketball, Wiggins is way more athletic, and just has so much more upside. Really, I think the best comparison for him is Paul George, because of his elite legnth and athleticism, streaky offensive game, and really solid play on the defensive end.

    I'm a long time Cavs fan, and I really don't think it's possible to go wrong with this pick. It's gotta be either Wiggins or Parker, and either guy would be a spectacular fit. Embiid is an option, with Varejao getting older, and being injured 120% of the time, but I think the smart, long-term choice would be Wiggins. You can quote numbers, but I think we all know that Parker will never be an elite defensive player, whereas Wiggins has a real chance to become a dominant 2-way player. As much fun as it would be to have Parker and Irving on the same team (If that happens, they should trade for Corey Maggette and Austin Rivers and then re-sign Luol Deng, and it would be the Duke 1-and-done all-star team), I think the fact that they are both defensively challenged would be too much of a liability for the other 3 players on the court to compensate. All that said, I'm glad I'm not David Griffin, though, because I would not be able to resist taking Jabari #1. The best basketball decision seems to be Wiggins.

    I've got no delusions about my team, the Cavaliers organization is a total mess. I honestly feel like they will somehow mismanage all of this and the whole thing blows up in their face again, Kyrie leaves for free agency, and Lebron stays in Miami. Because I'm a bigger Duke than any team in the NBA, I would much prefer to see Jabari land in Philadelphia, where I think the management has a good plan. He's going to be a great player wherever he lands, but I think he's set up really well to be the go-to-guy and develop with a young team in Philly that has some guys who look like they could become good enough defensive players to cover for Parker. The ideal fit I think would have been the Celtics, but at #6, they're pretty much out of the running for Jabari. But the Sixers is a really good situation too. They've got crazy amounts of cap room, the #3 and the #10 pick in this year's draft, and a pretty nice young core with Carter-Williams, Noel, and Young. If they got Jabari and then a shooter with the #10 pick, maybe Stauskas or even McBuckets, that could be a playoff team in 2 years, even if they didn't land a big free agent with all that extra money.
    I wouldn't be surprised if Danny Ainge and the Celtics try to make a trade to get into the top 3 to get Jabari. I remember Ainge went to a lot of Duke games this past season. Of course, he could've been looking at both Rodney and Jabari; but I too think Jabari would fit nicely with the Celtics and Brad Stevens.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Class of '94 View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if Danny Ainge and the Celtics try to make a trade to get into the top 3 to get Jabari. I remember Ainge went to a lot of Duke games this past season. Of course, he could've been looking at both Rodney and Jabari; but I too think Jabari would fit nicely with the Celtics and Brad Stevens.
    I asked this earlier in the thread, but what do the Celtics have that could convince any of the top 3 teams to trade their pick?

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I asked this earlier in the thread, but what do the Celtics have that could convince any of the top 3 teams to trade their pick?
    They have Rondo and didn't they fleece the Nets for a bunch of picks in the Pierce and Garnett deals?

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I asked this earlier in the thread, but what do the Celtics have that could convince any of the top 3 teams to trade their pick?
    Rondo, 6 & 17 in this draft, 2 2015 first rounders (theirs and the Clippers'), 2 2016 first rounders (theirs and Brooklyn's), a pick-swap in 2017 (with Brooklyn) and 2 2018 first rounders (theirs and Brooklyn's). Many of those picks may end up being low first round picks, but it's a load of picks that can be included in any package.
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    They have Rondo and didn't they fleece the Nets for a bunch of picks in the Pierce and Garnett deals?
    None of those picks is as valuable as this year's top-3 pick. And an older and often-injured Rondo isn't as appetizing either.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    None of those picks is as valuable as this year's top-3 pick. And an older and often-injured Rondo isn't as appetizing either.
    Of course none of those picks alone is worth a top 3 this year. I suggested a couple of those picks PLUS Rondo might be.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    Of course none of those picks alone is worth a top 3 this year. I suggested a couple of those picks PLUS Rondo might be.
    It's possible the #6 pick plus Rondo plus another 1st rounder might get it done. But would the Celtics want to do that? It's hard to imagine.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    It's possible the #6 pick plus Rondo plus another 1st rounder might get it done. But would the Celtics want to do that? It's hard to imagine.
    Maybe. They've got just a boatload of desirable assets at their disposal. According to Bill Simmons, they've got the following:

    two 2014 picks (no. 6 and no. 17), two 2015 first-rounders (their own and an unprotected Clippers pick), two unprotected Brooklyn first-rounders (2016 and 2018), a pick swap from Brooklyn in 2017 (unprotected), a $10.3 million trade exception, Keith Bogans’s waivable-ASAP contract ($5.1 million, perfect for trade match), Brandon Bass’s deal (expires in 2015) and two decent young players (Jared Sullinger and Kelly Olynyk).

    So even if they gave up the #6 plus Rondo and another first rounder, say, next year's, which I admit does sound like an awful lot, they'd still have the # 17 this year, a #1 next year, Brooklyn's two in '16 and '18, and much more. Maybe worth it.

  10. #90
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    Here is the problem with the trade scenarios for the top 3 picks, every team in the top 3 is banking on that pick -- and the hope for the future that it represents -- to sell tickets and revitalize a struggling franchise. To give up a pick everyone in the NBA and all your fans are drooling over for a mid-lottery pick plus another pick that could fall anywhere in the draft plus Rajon Rondo is a formula for your fans to revolt.

    If you deal out of the top 3 and the guy you could have drafted turns into a super-stud, you forever look like the bozo GM who took Bowie over Jordan. I think it is going to be very hard to pry one of those top 3 picks away unless you are offering something really attractive that instantly makes your team muuuuch better... like Kevin Love.

    -Jason "question for the masses -- would you trade any of the top 3 picks straight up for Love? Potential versus a sure-thing. Love is only 25 years old" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    -Jason "question for the masses -- would you trade any of the top 3 picks straight up for Love? Potential versus a sure-thing. Love is only 25 years old" Evans
    Not if he's going to be a free agent after next season. All these teams are in rebuilding mode. What good does a one year rental do them? And even if you can do some sort of sign-and-trade, he'll still be paid waaaaaay more than your top 3 pick for the next few seasons. Maybe Cleveland, if Kyrie is in favor of it and they think LeBron might come back, but even that seems a long shot to me.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Not if he's going to be a free agent after next season. All these teams are in rebuilding mode. What good does a one year rental do them? And even if you can do some sort of sign-and-trade, he'll still be paid waaaaaay more than your top 3 pick for the next few seasons. Maybe Cleveland, if Kyrie is in favor of it and they think LeBron might come back, but even that seems a long shot to me.
    I agree that the "rent Kevin Love for one year" thing would be a deal breaker. But I'm not sold on the $$$ or the rebuilding factors. Kevin Love instantly makes whatever team he goes to an exciting place to play. He can draw in other free agents or, even better, his team can pull a Kevin-Garnett-for-7-subpar-pieces. And I think this works for Cleveland (Waiters, Thompson, Bennett, future picks...okay, maybe not Bennett), Philly (MCW, Nerlens, Young, plenty of future picks), and Milwaukee (Greek Freak, angry Larry Sanders, Khris Middleton, future picks). I mean, with that group, they aren't going to get Kevin Durant, but I can see them getting another disgruntled All-Star (Pau Gasol, Rando, maybe the last few years of Zach Randolph's career).

    If he goes to Cleveland, a core of Kyrie, Love, and Another-All-Star would be a really exciting offensive group. Given, this group couldn't defend their own shadows, but they'd definitely draw in some crowds.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    Of course none of those picks alone is worth a top 3 this year. I suggested a couple of those picks PLUS Rondo might be.
    I was trying to say that the sum of those picks don't match the value. A ton of good-but-not-great players is worth less than one star player. That is the risk run by giving up a top 3 pick this year for any collection of picks outside the top-5.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Chad Ford chat from yesterday, post-lottery. He gets into teams trading into and out of the lottery, as well as the Cavs-Love stuff.

    One intriguing trade deal that could make a lot of sense: Philly sends the #3 to Utah for the #5, #23 and one of two 4th year players Enes Kanter (12.3 and 7.5 in 26 minutes last season) or Alec Burks (14 pts in 28 minutes).

    Utah gets LDS star Jabari Parker at #3, assuming Embiid's back checks out and he and Wiggins go 1-2. Philly would get either a starting 2-guard in Burks or a 4 in Kanter to play alongside Noel. Philly could also draft one of Gordon/Randle/Vonleh at #5 and a role player such as Napier/McGary/Warren at #23.

    Would Philly rather have Parker (or Embiid/Exum) at #3 - all starters and potential All-Stars, or would they rather have Kanter/Burks plus Vonleh/Randle/Gordon plus a role player? It's essentially a potential star vs. depth. I am guessing Philly stands pat at #3 and winds up with Parker being their leading scorer for the next dozen years.
    Vonleh is viewed as the biggest upward surprise of the Combine. If the 76ers see Vonleh as a future all star, and equal to the 3 top tier guys, then the above trade would be excellent for them (especially if they get rotation players at 23 and via a trade). Such a view might be unlikely, but I wasn't overwhelmed by either of the Kansas players during the course of the season. It didn't help that I was so busy rooting against their team that perhaps I wasn't viewing them with the proper distance, but I was more impressed by Young and Randle, and I was even more biased against Kentucky than Kansas.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    If you deal out of the top 3 and the guy you could have drafted turns into a super-stud, you forever look like the bozo GM who took Bowie over Jordan. I think it is going to be very hard to pry one of those top 3 picks away unless you are offering something really attractive that instantly makes your team muuuuch better... like Kevin Love.

    -Jason "question for the masses -- would you trade any of the top 3 picks straight up for Love? Potential versus a sure-thing. Love is only 25 years old" Evans
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Not if he's going to be a free agent after next season. All these teams are in rebuilding mode. What good does a one year rental do them? And even if you can do some sort of sign-and-trade, he'll still be paid waaaaaay more than your top 3 pick for the next few seasons. Maybe Cleveland, if Kyrie is in favor of it and they think LeBron might come back, but even that seems a long shot to me.
    Love is not going to get traded to a team that is renting him for a year. A team would only pursue a deal if Love says he wants to go there to stay (Boston/LALakers) or if he signs an extension as part of the deal. Love would likely only go to Cleveland if he knew Lebron was coming home. That communication could happen because of their Team USA relationship. But Lebron probably does know yet himself. My guess is if the Heat win the title again this year, Lebron will not opt out and will stay put in Miami and try to 4-peat. But if Miami were to lose the finals, and Wade/Bosh arent pulling the weight they use to pull, then there's a decent chance Lebron opts out this summer. Under that scenario, it is also just as likely that Lebron works with Love to go somewhere like LA as it is they make plans for Cleveland.

    I'd be willing to bet that based on how he worked with Wade/Bosh four years ago, Lebron works behind the scenes to orchestrate something similar if he jumps ship this year (or next).

    As for trading a top 3 pick straight up for Love, I think Cleveland would do that with the #1 because they want to win now. I think Philly would that at #3 as well. The question gets complicated when it comes to Love's preferences though. Love seems like he wants to go to the Lakers (Ucla and West Coast background). My guess is Love would not agree to an extension in Cleveland without knowing Lebron was coming and would not agree to an extension with Philly unless there was a second move involved (Melo?).

    Also, what are the salary cap rules? Love is on the books for $15.7 million next year. A top 3 picks makes $4.5 to 5.0 million or so, so I think other pieces would have to be involved (trade exception, package of vet players, etc) to even out the salaries.

    Super "enjoying the speculation" Dave

  16. #96
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    Good write up of NBA front office blinded analysis of Embid, Wiggins, Parker and Randle.

    http://grantland.com/the-triangle/ry...id-and-parker/

    As I read more post-lottery draft analysis, there seems to be more of a #1 pick shift toward Embid. Consider the stuff in the article above and this from Bill Simmons:

    http://grantland.com/features/the-nb...-self-mailbag/

    Q: Wait … what? You watched Joel Embiid work out last week?
    A:.......News flash: As I said on TV before the lottery, Embiid was always going first. None of these teams was passing on him. Repeat: none of them. The amount of smokescreening going on in April and May was high comedy......

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    Good write up of NBA front office blinded analysis of Embid, Wiggins, Parker and Randle.

    http://grantland.com/the-triangle/ry...id-and-parker/

    As I read more post-lottery draft analysis, there seems to be more of a #1 pick shift toward Embid. Consider the stuff in the article above and this from Bill Simmons:

    http://grantland.com/features/the-nb...-self-mailbag/

    Q: Wait … what? You watched Joel Embiid work out last week?
    A:.......News flash: As I said on TV before the lottery, Embiid was always going first. None of these teams was passing on him. Repeat: none of them. The amount of smokescreening going on in April and May was high comedy......
    Thanks Billy.

    The Ryan Russillo piece is definitely worth a read. Main conclusions from the piece:

    1) Embiid is going #1. And it ain't even a discussion
    2) Wiggins is incredibly overrated. Will be defensive maestro, but his offense is suspect
    3) Scouts really like Jabari. But they don't think he can be a first banana and lead the team to a championship. Like DBR, absolutely hate his defense.

    Unfortunately, I think this means that Jabari goes to Milwaukee...not a good thing at all.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  18. #98
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    Big workout in LA today for many top prospects. The tweets are starting to flow about Jabari...

    Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanESPN 40m
    NBA guy on Jabari Parker -- working out now in LA. "He doesn't look toned by any means but him getting really fat look exaggerated."

    Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 1m
    Jabari just finished working out. Went hard. Shot it well. Ended it with a series of emphatic dunks. Overall he looked really good.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    Good write up of NBA front office blinded analysis of Embid, Wiggins, Parker and Randle.

    http://grantland.com/the-triangle/ry...id-and-parker/

    As I read more post-lottery draft analysis, there seems to be more of a #1 pick shift toward Embid. Consider the stuff in the article above and this from Bill Simmons:

    http://grantland.com/features/the-nb...-self-mailbag/

    Q: Wait … what? You watched Joel Embiid work out last week?
    A:.......News flash: As I said on TV before the lottery, Embiid was always going first. None of these teams was passing on him. Repeat: none of them. The amount of smokescreening going on in April and May was high comedy......
    The Grantland article contains some wonderful Parker observations:

    "Don’t completely trust his shot. I think he’s really selfish, took some really tough contested shots, but probably because he looked at the [Duke] team around him and just said, “Fudge it.”

    I worry about him as a small forward. If he was an elite athlete you could get by with him being a below-average shooter. If he was an elite shooter you could get by with him being a below-average athlete. Unfortunately, he’s below average in both. I’m a fan, but he can’t be your best player.

    Defense … now that’s a problem. It’s like Coach K kept it a secret. Did not apply man-you-ball principles and at times he looked unconcerned. You can hide guys in a team defense, but does he care? He’s not laterally quick enough to guard today’s better small forwards. With his body type you wonder where it is going.

    I know he is bad on defense, but so is Kyrie Irving."

    I love the perception of Duke's last two great stars (Parker and Irving) being known as awful defenders, and team killers.

  20. #100
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    Now Embid is working out in LA and the raves are pouring in...

    Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 2m
    Embiid quickly re-asserting claim to # 1 pick here. Added muscle, still has quick feet & a beautiful jumper. No evidence of back issues

    Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 8m
    Watching Joel Embiid in workout for league executives in Santa Monica. Impossible to imagine passing on him at No. 1.

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