Cook v Jones

[MCFinARL]

I don't know where "we" think Winslow's offense will be, but I think his offensive game is being really underestimated on these boards. He's not some weird combination of, I don't know, (don't kill me, just throwing out names real quick) Tyler Thornton and Dennis Rodman, who plays D and rebounds but is basically a zero on the offensive end of the floor. The kid has offensive skills too. He can drive to the hole, he can score in traffic, he's very good in transition, he can hit the midrange jumpshot. He's not Kevin Durant either in terms of pure scoring ability either, so don't get me wrong. But any opponent that assumes that they basically don't have to worry about Winslow hurting them offensively, does so at its peril.

The mental image of a combination of Tyler Thornton and Dennis Rodman made me laugh very hard. Wonder how Tyler would look in a wedding dress?

[Kedsy]

Also, is M Jones that much bigger than Rasheed? I recall them being listed at 6'5 and 6'4 respectively.

According to GoDuke.com, Matt is 6'4, 200 and Rasheed is 6'4, 190.

[Newton_14]

1) Rasheed is pretty tall. He's definitely at least 6'3", more like 6'4". That's decent size for a 3. Freshman Sulaimon held his own pretty well against 3s, so I guess that he'll be okay.

2) M. Jones is a big dude, both in height and bulk. He's considerably "meatier" than Sulaimon and probably an inch taller, too. NOTE: "Meatier" can mean muscle, can mean muscle/fat. Not sure what M. Jones's body type is like.

3) I know we'll be seeing some T Jones and Cook out on the floor, but I just don't see how it works. Both aren't good defenders right now and I have a feeling that Coach K is going to prioritize D over O next year.

4) If AJ gains a mid-range and is able to be a decent threat on O, I think that Okafor doesn't need to be surrounded by 3pt shooters. Given that T Jones and Winslow don't really have 3pt reputations, they may see more time. Now, if AJ doesn't gain any range, I think we'll be seeing a lot of Sulaimon and Cook, potentially at the expense of Winslow.

5) Next year seems to be the year of the unknowns:
a) How will AJ improve?
b) How good is Winslow's D?
c) How good is Winslow's O?
d) Will Cook be more consistent?
e) Can T Jones play defense?
f) Will M Jones find his shot?
g) Will Semi be the back-up at the 4 that we need?

1) Rasheed is pretty tall. He's definitely at least 6'3", more like 6'4". That's decent size for a 3. Freshman Sulaimon held his own pretty well against 3s, so I guess that he'll be okay.
MN> Yes, I have stood right beside him, and Rasheed is every bit of 6/3-6/4, and lengthy. He is not small. We will not be at much of a disadvantage if at all with him at the 3 spot, even with Quinn and Tyus on the floor with him.
2) M. Jones is a big dude, both in height and bulk. He's considerably "meatier" than Sulaimon and probably an inch taller, too. NOTE: "Meatier" can mean muscle, can mean muscle/fat. Not sure what M. Jones's body type is like.
MN> True again. He is a bigger boned kid than is Rasheed, also with good length and to be honest is probably close to Rasheed in terms of quickness. We can play him at the 3 with Cook and Tyus on the floor with no trouble at all in my opinion. I have no worries with Matt on defense, but I do hope he can improve a lot on Offense, both with his 3 point shot, and scoring in general.
3) I know we'll be seeing some T Jones and Cook out on the floor, but I just don't see how it works. Both aren't good defenders right now and I have a feeling that Coach K is going to prioritize D over O next year.
MN> Like others have stated, we will almost certainly see both of them on the floor for at least 10-15 mpg, and while I certainly agree that Cook has not been a consistent defender, he has shown flashes at times of being able to ball hawk. Yes he gets beat off the dribble a lot, but he has also been disruptive at times, drawing multiple 5 Second Calls, sometimes more than 1 in the same game. A lot of defense is desire. Seems trite but it's true. With Tyus, I would strongly encourage everyone to wait and see. You never know how good a kid is going to defend on the college level until they get on the floor in College games. The jury will be out on Tyus the individual Duke defender, and Tyus the team defender in Duke's Defensive Scheme, until we see him play a handful of college games in a Duke uniform. Maybe like Tyler Thornton, the kid walks in the door fully understanding and grasping K's scheme's, and fully able to execute them properly possession after possession. Also, one advantage those guys will have next season that we did not have this season, is size behind them in the middle 100% of the time. That actually does make a difference. Either Jahlil or MP3 will be on the floor 99% of the time. As a guard, you can approach your assignment differently if you know there is strong help behind you.
4) If AJ gains a mid-range and is able to be a decent threat on O, I think that Okafor doesn't need to be surrounded by 3pt shooters. Given that T Jones and Winslow don't really have 3pt reputations, they may see more time. Now, if AJ doesn't gain any range, I think we'll be seeing a lot of Sulaimon and Cook, potentially at the expense of Winslow.
MN- More on AJ below, but I think we will see a lot of Sulaimon and Cook regardless, but there will be many battles for PT at the 1-4 positions throughout the season. K has no fear of going small, and he also is not scared to sit a Junior or Senior in favor of a Freshman or Soph that is outplaying the upperclassmen on the court. So any scenario could play out, I just happen to believe that Cook has enough talent and desire not to become a little used scrub (but again to reiterate, I fully expecft Tyus Jones to be the starting PG from Day 1 and not lose the job)
5) Next year seems to be the year of the unknowns:
a) How will AJ improve? MN-While I don't believe Amile is ever going to be a good/great shooter, I fully believe he is going to be a good to great scorer before all is said an done. I said many times last season our offense was MUCH better in the games where Amile was actively hunting buckets. It opened up a lot of things within the offense. The kid can score and can do it in a variety of ways. He will be a Junior. One year older, wiser, stronger, maybe adds 5 pounds or so, and we often forget a key element. He previously was a frosh and soph going against older, bigger, stronger, veteran players, or in some cases stud freshman, yet he had moderate success scoring the ball against those guys as a frosh, and was better at it as a Soph. Now the opponents will either be guys he has played against his entire career who have little to no advantage over him, or stud freshman who are now facing the Junior version Amile, or lastly, non-stud freshman and Soph's who are far less experienced than Amile. To me, that matters and it matters a lot. If given the opportunity, and if he actively hunts buckets, I think Amile can easily score 10.0 to say 12.0 ppg, maybe even a little bit more. In those matchups Amile will now be the vet with the advantage and I believe he can and will take full advantage of that. He should be a great complement to Jahlil in the paint.
b) How good is Winslow's D?
MN- Same answer as above with Tyus. We will know when we see it. We do know that physically, he seemingly has all the tools required to be a good college defender. Disclaimer: We have had kids, including this past season, that seemingly had all the tools in the defensive tool bag, but for whatever reason, it did not translate. I hope Winslow falls in the other category.
c) How good is Winslow's O?
MN- Like Tommy, I fall on the side of optimism here. I think Winslow can be a very effective scorer, with or without being a lights out 3 point shooter. That said, I really don't think we will need a lot of points from Winslow this season. We should get plenty of scoring from others. If Winslow can be a solid scorer it will be a great bonus actually.
d) Will Cook be more consistent?
MN- At one point this past season I almost gave up on Quinn. I know some here have given up on him. However, he played his butt off in that last game, and the "Good Quinn" is really good, like 1st Team All-ACC type good. It is do or die for him, and if his heart is as big as I think it is, he will play good, consistent ball for the most part in his Senior Campaign. Lastly, I always put a lot of stock in the insights Jim Sumner shares with us, and Jim is on record in this thread of believing Cook will play a lot and play well. It could go the other way I suppose, but until proven otherwise I am casting my vote in the same hat as Mr Jim, thank you.
e) Can T Jones play defense?
MN-Yes
f) Will M Jones find his shot?
MN-TBD. His form is not great, he has a hitch, and doesn't always get good rotation, but players with similar traits have been great shooters in the past. You always prefer the great shooting form of players like Mark Price, JJ Redick, Andre Dawkins, etc, but there is more than one way to knock down 3 pointers consistently. MJones did have the rep of a great shooter, especially in the summer after his Junior Season on the AAU circuit, but for whatever reason, it did not translate this past season.
g) Will Semi be the back-up at the 4 that we need?
MN- Also TBD, but fascinating player and great scenaro for debate. I am still undecided, though I lean slightly to the side of "Semi develops into really solid College Player". If he figures it out this season, then wow, can he help this team in multiple ways on both sides of the ball. His quickness, leaping ability, size, strength, are all off the charts good. If he figures out how to use all of those skills effectively, the sky is the limit in terms of what he is capable of. I really, really hope he is patient, and develops year over year as that will be so much fun to watch, even not counting the benefits to the team. He has somewhat of a slow release on his 3 point shot, but he showed the ability to knock that shot down in the limited opportunities he got this past season. And to tie it back into the thread title, if you have Semi, Amile, Jahlil, on the floor together, then putting Tyus and Quinn out there together should work just fine. Same for a line up with Rasheed, Semi, Jahlil, at the 3,4,5, with Tyus & Quinn.

So with all that, the potential of having success with both Quinn and Tyus on the floor at the same time, is certainly there with several different line up combinations. Pairing them together in the backcourt does not have to automatically mean a weak defensive team. Oddly enough, some of our bigger line ups this past season were not great defensively. I would not assume that the defense this year would be bad with those two guys in the lineup. Could be of course. Something to watch for. When is the first exhibition? Let's go already!

[Kedsy]

And to tie it back into the thread title, if you have Semi, Amile, Jahlil, on the floor together, then putting Tyus and Quinn out there together should work just fine. Same for a line up with Rasheed, Semi, Jahlil, at the 3,4,5, with Tyus & Quinn.

Personally, I doubt we'll see much of Semi at SF in 2014-15 (hence, little or no Semi/Amile/Jahlil). Semi's road to playing time this coming season would seem to hinge on him winning time as backup PF. I still believe that we won't see much if any Jahlil and Marshall together, which means when Amile is off the court someone has to play PF. If I'm right about Jahlil/Marshall, that means when Amile is resting it's going to be either Semi or Justise at PF. If Semi beats Justise out for those minutes (and thus Justise plays the vast majority of his minutes at SF), then Semi will be in the 8-man rotation. If Justise beats our Semi for backup PF, then we'll probably have a 7-man rotation (with Semi, Matt, and Grayson all getting token plus blowout minutes).

Having said that, it's certainly possible that Matt wins his way into the rotation, but to do so he'll probably have to beat out someone (e.g., Semi AND Justise or Quinn) for perimeter minutes, and I'm not as hopeful as some that it'll happen.

[JPtheGame]

If only we had a guy 6'8 or taller with the ball skills to be a 3 but the size to play as a 4 in a small lineup.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...power-forwards

Oh right, we did but he left to go battle 3 other guys at Florida for very limited minutes.

[Kedsy]

If only we had a guy 6'8 or taller with the ball skills to be a 3 but the size to play as a 4 in a small lineup.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...power-forwards

Oh right, we did but he left to go battle 3 other guys at Florida for very limited minutes.

We have Semi and Justise who can play the same positions and are at least as good if not better options than Alex Murphy. I like all our guys and it makes me sad when players transfer, but there's really no good basketball reason to whine about not having Alex.

[Saratoga2]

1) Rasheed is pretty tall. He's definitely at least 6'3", more like 6'4". That's decent size for a 3. Freshman Sulaimon held his own pretty well against 3s, so I guess that he'll be okay.
MN> Yes, I have stood right beside him, and Rasheed is every bit of 6/3-6/4, and lengthy. He is not small. We will not be at much of a disadvantage if at all with him at the 3 spot, even with Quinn and Tyus on the floor with him.
2) M. Jones is a big dude, both in height and bulk. He's considerably "meatier" than Sulaimon and probably an inch taller, too. NOTE: "Meatier" can mean muscle, can mean muscle/fat. Not sure what M. Jones's body type is like.
MN> True again. He is a bigger boned kid than is Rasheed, also with good length and to be honest is probably close to Rasheed in terms of quickness. We can play him at the 3 with Cook and Tyus on the floor with no trouble at all in my opinion. I have no worries with Matt on defense, but I do hope he can improve a lot on Offense, both with his 3 point shot, and scoring in general.
3) I know we'll be seeing some T Jones and Cook out on the floor, but I just don't see how it works. Both aren't good defenders right now and I have a feeling that Coach K is going to prioritize D over O next year.
MN> Like others have stated, we will almost certainly see both of them on the floor for at least 10-15 mpg, and while I certainly agree that Cook has not been a consistent defender, he has shown flashes at times of being able to ball hawk. Yes he gets beat off the dribble a lot, but he has also been disruptive at times, drawing multiple 5 Second Calls, sometimes more than 1 in the same game. A lot of defense is desire. Seems trite but it's true. With Tyus, I would strongly encourage everyone to wait and see. You never know how good a kid is going to defend on the college level until they get on the floor in College games. The jury will be out on Tyus the individual Duke defender, and Tyus the team defender in Duke's Defensive Scheme, until we see him play a handful of college games in a Duke uniform. Maybe like Tyler Thornton, the kid walks in the door fully understanding and grasping K's scheme's, and fully able to execute them properly possession after possession. Also, one advantage those guys will have next season that we did not have this season, is size behind them in the middle 100% of the time. That actually does make a difference. Either Jahlil or MP3 will be on the floor 99% of the time. As a guard, you can approach your assignment differently if you know there is strong help behind you.
4) If AJ gains a mid-range and is able to be a decent threat on O, I think that Okafor doesn't need to be surrounded by 3pt shooters. Given that T Jones and Winslow don't really have 3pt reputations, they may see more time. Now, if AJ doesn't gain any range, I think we'll be seeing a lot of Sulaimon and Cook, potentially at the expense of Winslow.
MN- More on AJ below, but I think we will see a lot of Sulaimon and Cook regardless, but there will be many battles for PT at the 1-4 positions throughout the season. K has no fear of going small, and he also is not scared to sit a Junior or Senior in favor of a Freshman or Soph that is outplaying the upperclassmen on the court. So any scenario could play out, I just happen to believe that Cook has enough talent and desire not to become a little used scrub (but again to reiterate, I fully expecft Tyus Jones to be the starting PG from Day 1 and not lose the job)
5) Next year seems to be the year of the unknowns:
a) How will AJ improve? MN-While I don't believe Amile is ever going to be a good/great shooter, I fully believe he is going to be a good to great scorer before all is said an done. I said many times last season our offense was MUCH better in the games where Amile was actively hunting buckets. It opened up a lot of things within the offense. The kid can score and can do it in a variety of ways. He will be a Junior. One year older, wiser, stronger, maybe adds 5 pounds or so, and we often forget a key element. He previously was a frosh and soph going against older, bigger, stronger, veteran players, or in some cases stud freshman, yet he had moderate success scoring the ball against those guys as a frosh, and was better at it as a Soph. Now the opponents will either be guys he has played against his entire career who have little to no advantage over him, or stud freshman who are now facing the Junior version Amile, or lastly, non-stud freshman and Soph's who are far less experienced than Amile. To me, that matters and it matters a lot. If given the opportunity, and if he actively hunts buckets, I think Amile can easily score 10.0 to say 12.0 ppg, maybe even a little bit more. In those matchups Amile will now be the vet with the advantage and I believe he can and will take full advantage of that. He should be a great complement to Jahlil in the paint.
b) How good is Winslow's D?
MN- Same answer as above with Tyus. We will know when we see it. We do know that physically, he seemingly has all the tools required to be a good college defender. Disclaimer: We have had kids, including this past season, that seemingly had all the tools in the defensive tool bag, but for whatever reason, it did not translate. I hope Winslow falls in the other category.
c) How good is Winslow's O?
MN- Like Tommy, I fall on the side of optimism here. I think Winslow can be a very effective scorer, with or without being a lights out 3 point shooter. That said, I really don't think we will need a lot of points from Winslow this season. We should get plenty of scoring from others. If Winslow can be a solid scorer it will be a great bonus actually.
d) Will Cook be more consistent?
MN- At one point this past season I almost gave up on Quinn. I know some here have given up on him. However, he played his butt off in that last game, and the "Good Quinn" is really good, like 1st Team All-ACC type good. It is do or die for him, and if his heart is as big as I think it is, he will play good, consistent ball for the most part in his Senior Campaign. Lastly, I always put a lot of stock in the insights Jim Sumner shares with us, and Jim is on record in this thread of believing Cook will play a lot and play well. It could go the other way I suppose, but until proven otherwise I am casting my vote in the same hat as Mr Jim, thank you.
e) Can T Jones play defense?
MN-Yes
f) Will M Jones find his shot?
MN-TBD. His form is not great, he has a hitch, and doesn't always get good rotation, but players with similar traits have been great shooters in the past. You always prefer the great shooting form of players like Mark Price, JJ Redick, Andre Dawkins, etc, but there is more than one way to knock down 3 pointers consistently. MJones did have the rep of a great shooter, especially in the summer after his Junior Season on the AAU circuit, but for whatever reason, it did not translate this past season.
g) Will Semi be the back-up at the 4 that we need?
MN- Also TBD, but fascinating player and great scenaro for debate. I am still undecided, though I lean slightly to the side of "Semi develops into really solid College Player". If he figures it out this season, then wow, can he help this team in multiple ways on both sides of the ball. His quickness, leaping ability, size, strength, are all off the charts good. If he figures out how to use all of those skills effectively, the sky is the limit in terms of what he is capable of. I really, really hope he is patient, and develops year over year as that will be so much fun to watch, even not counting the benefits to the team. He has somewhat of a slow release on his 3 point shot, but he showed the ability to knock that shot down in the limited opportunities he got this past season. And to tie it back into the thread title, if you have Semi, Amile, Jahlil, on the floor together, then putting Tyus and Quinn out there together should work just fine. Same for a line up with Rasheed, Semi, Jahlil, at the 3,4,5, with Tyus & Quinn.

So with all that, the potential of having success with both Quinn and Tyus on the floor at the same time, is certainly there with several different line up combinations. Pairing them together in the backcourt does not have to automatically mean a weak defensive team. Oddly enough, some of our bigger line ups this past season were not great defensively. I would not assume that the defense this year would be bad with those two guys in the lineup. Could be of course. Something to watch for. When is the first exhibition? Let's go already!

A touch or realism and quite optimistic. I hope that the guys develop and that some one or two players take on the mantle of leadership. To me it should come from a junior or senior. Quinn would be a candidate as would Rasheed. Amile is also a candidate, but none of those three seem to have shown that kind of personality in the past, but given the responsibility might adjust their approach and become a strong leader.

[flyingdutchdevil]

1) Rasheed is pretty tall. He's definitely at least 6'3", more like 6'4". That's decent size for a 3. Freshman Sulaimon held his own pretty well against 3s, so I guess that he'll be okay.
MN> Yes, I have stood right beside him, and Rasheed is every bit of 6/3-6/4, and lengthy. He is not small. We will not be at much of a disadvantage if at all with him at the 3 spot, even with Quinn and Tyus on the floor with him.
2) M. Jones is a big dude, both in height and bulk. He's considerably "meatier" than Sulaimon and probably an inch taller, too. NOTE: "Meatier" can mean muscle, can mean muscle/fat. Not sure what M. Jones's body type is like.
MN> True again. He is a bigger boned kid than is Rasheed, also with good length and to be honest is probably close to Rasheed in terms of quickness. We can play him at the 3 with Cook and Tyus on the floor with no trouble at all in my opinion. I have no worries with Matt on defense, but I do hope he can improve a lot on Offense, both with his 3 point shot, and scoring in general.
3) I know we'll be seeing some T Jones and Cook out on the floor, but I just don't see how it works. Both aren't good defenders right now and I have a feeling that Coach K is going to prioritize D over O next year.
MN> Like others have stated, we will almost certainly see both of them on the floor for at least 10-15 mpg, and while I certainly agree that Cook has not been a consistent defender, he has shown flashes at times of being able to ball hawk. Yes he gets beat off the dribble a lot, but he has also been disruptive at times, drawing multiple 5 Second Calls, sometimes more than 1 in the same game. A lot of defense is desire. Seems trite but it's true. With Tyus, I would strongly encourage everyone to wait and see. You never know how good a kid is going to defend on the college level until they get on the floor in College games. The jury will be out on Tyus the individual Duke defender, and Tyus the team defender in Duke's Defensive Scheme, until we see him play a handful of college games in a Duke uniform. Maybe like Tyler Thornton, the kid walks in the door fully understanding and grasping K's scheme's, and fully able to execute them properly possession after possession. Also, one advantage those guys will have next season that we did not have this season, is size behind them in the middle 100% of the time. That actually does make a difference. Either Jahlil or MP3 will be on the floor 99% of the time. As a guard, you can approach your assignment differently if you know there is strong help behind you.
4) If AJ gains a mid-range and is able to be a decent threat on O, I think that Okafor doesn't need to be surrounded by 3pt shooters. Given that T Jones and Winslow don't really have 3pt reputations, they may see more time. Now, if AJ doesn't gain any range, I think we'll be seeing a lot of Sulaimon and Cook, potentially at the expense of Winslow.
MN- More on AJ below, but I think we will see a lot of Sulaimon and Cook regardless, but there will be many battles for PT at the 1-4 positions throughout the season. K has no fear of going small, and he also is not scared to sit a Junior or Senior in favor of a Freshman or Soph that is outplaying the upperclassmen on the court. So any scenario could play out, I just happen to believe that Cook has enough talent and desire not to become a little used scrub (but again to reiterate, I fully expecft Tyus Jones to be the starting PG from Day 1 and not lose the job)
5) Next year seems to be the year of the unknowns:
a) How will AJ improve? MN-While I don't believe Amile is ever going to be a good/great shooter, I fully believe he is going to be a good to great scorer before all is said an done. I said many times last season our offense was MUCH better in the games where Amile was actively hunting buckets. It opened up a lot of things within the offense. The kid can score and can do it in a variety of ways. He will be a Junior. One year older, wiser, stronger, maybe adds 5 pounds or so, and we often forget a key element. He previously was a frosh and soph going against older, bigger, stronger, veteran players, or in some cases stud freshman, yet he had moderate success scoring the ball against those guys as a frosh, and was better at it as a Soph. Now the opponents will either be guys he has played against his entire career who have little to no advantage over him, or stud freshman who are now facing the Junior version Amile, or lastly, non-stud freshman and Soph's who are far less experienced than Amile. To me, that matters and it matters a lot. If given the opportunity, and if he actively hunts buckets, I think Amile can easily score 10.0 to say 12.0 ppg, maybe even a little bit more. In those matchups Amile will now be the vet with the advantage and I believe he can and will take full advantage of that. He should be a great complement to Jahlil in the paint.
b) How good is Winslow's D?
MN- Same answer as above with Tyus. We will know when we see it. We do know that physically, he seemingly has all the tools required to be a good college defender. Disclaimer: We have had kids, including this past season, that seemingly had all the tools in the defensive tool bag, but for whatever reason, it did not translate. I hope Winslow falls in the other category.
c) How good is Winslow's O?
MN- Like Tommy, I fall on the side of optimism here. I think Winslow can be a very effective scorer, with or without being a lights out 3 point shooter. That said, I really don't think we will need a lot of points from Winslow this season. We should get plenty of scoring from others. If Winslow can be a solid scorer it will be a great bonus actually.
d) Will Cook be more consistent?
MN- At one point this past season I almost gave up on Quinn. I know some here have given up on him. However, he played his butt off in that last game, and the "Good Quinn" is really good, like 1st Team All-ACC type good. It is do or die for him, and if his heart is as big as I think it is, he will play good, consistent ball for the most part in his Senior Campaign. Lastly, I always put a lot of stock in the insights Jim Sumner shares with us, and Jim is on record in this thread of believing Cook will play a lot and play well. It could go the other way I suppose, but until proven otherwise I am casting my vote in the same hat as Mr Jim, thank you.
e) Can T Jones play defense?
MN-Yes
f) Will M Jones find his shot?
MN-TBD. His form is not great, he has a hitch, and doesn't always get good rotation, but players with similar traits have been great shooters in the past. You always prefer the great shooting form of players like Mark Price, JJ Redick, Andre Dawkins, etc, but there is more than one way to knock down 3 pointers consistently. MJones did have the rep of a great shooter, especially in the summer after his Junior Season on the AAU circuit, but for whatever reason, it did not translate this past season.
g) Will Semi be the back-up at the 4 that we need?
MN- Also TBD, but fascinating player and great scenaro for debate. I am still undecided, though I lean slightly to the side of "Semi develops into really solid College Player". If he figures it out this season, then wow, can he help this team in multiple ways on both sides of the ball. His quickness, leaping ability, size, strength, are all off the charts good. If he figures out how to use all of those skills effectively, the sky is the limit in terms of what he is capable of. I really, really hope he is patient, and develops year over year as that will be so much fun to watch, even not counting the benefits to the team. He has somewhat of a slow release on his 3 point shot, but he showed the ability to knock that shot down in the limited opportunities he got this past season. And to tie it back into the thread title, if you have Semi, Amile, Jahlil, on the floor together, then putting Tyus and Quinn out there together should work just fine. Same for a line up with Rasheed, Semi, Jahlil, at the 3,4,5, with Tyus & Quinn.

So with all that, the potential of having success with both Quinn and Tyus on the floor at the same time, is certainly there with several different line up combinations. Pairing them together in the backcourt does not have to automatically mean a weak defensive team. Oddly enough, some of our bigger line ups this past season were not great defensively. I would not assume that the defense this year would be bad with those two guys in the lineup. Could be of course. Something to watch for. When is the first exhibition? Let's go already!

Very nice post, Newton. And love the optimism!

Count me as one of the posters who never gave up on Cook. I loved his game in the first half of last season, and the only thing that I couldn't stand was his hero ball, which he cut down considerably in the second half. Cook is a great passer, a very good ball handler, and a very good shooter. We're lucky to have him.

The one area where I think you're being too optimistic is Tyus's defense. You're right, we haven't seen him play college D. But consider the following:

a) You rarely see anything written about Tyus's defense in high school.
b) In multiple training sessions for high school All-Star games, many analysts criticized Tyus's defense. These All-Star training sessions aren't like the games; rather, players really seem to hustle and try their best
c) The big knock against Tyus is that he isn't that athletic. And while athleticism doesn't automatically turn you into an amazing defender, it does give you an edge.

Now, I hope that Tyus Jones has Aaron Craft-like desire. But, as of right now, I'm not at all sold on Tyus as a defender. As an offensive player and distributor? Absolutely. His passing, his decision making, his clutch ability, and his driving are all excellent.

[Newton_14]

Very nice post, Newton. And love the optimism!

Count me as one of the posters who never gave up on Cook. I loved his game in the first half of last season, and the only thing that I couldn't stand was his hero ball, which he cut down considerably in the second half. Cook is a great passer, a very good ball handler, and a very good shooter. We're lucky to have him.

The one area where I think you're being too optimistic is Tyus's defense. You're right, we haven't seen him play college D. But consider the following:

a) You rarely see anything written about Tyus's defense in high school.
b) In multiple training sessions for high school All-Star games, many analysts criticized Tyus's defense. These All-Star training sessions aren't like the games; rather, players really seem to hustle and try their best
c) The big knock against Tyus is that he isn't that athletic. And while athleticism doesn't automatically turn you into an amazing defender, it does give you an edge.

Now, I hope that Tyus Jones has Aaron Craft-like desire. But, as of right now, I'm not at all sold on Tyus as a defender. As an offensive player and distributor? Absolutely. His passing, his decision making, his clutch ability, and his driving are all excellent.

To clarify, regarding the optimism, I was trying to paint pictures of how the Cook/Tyus backcourt could work, without going into a crazy land of "no chance in hell that will ever happen". I'm not saying flatly it will work, and I am not backtracking. I do think that backcourt can be successful, yet I realize it could be a disaster. As of right now, and again, especially after reading the Sumner commentary, I lean to the side of "Quinn will play well, Tyus will be a better defender than people expect". I know the scouts are not high on Tyus Jones the defender, and he certainly is not strong, and not crazy athletic. I just personally feel that most every High School Freshman walks in the door not having a clue about how to play college defense. Those with the tools and those without face the same steep learning curve with regards to college defense. Some pick up quickly, some never at all. I admit the evidence suggests Tyus is not a strong defender, but I still think it wise to have a wait and see attitude on whether he plays good defense or not.

Last summer, I fully expected the 2013-14 Blue Devils to be very strong defensively based on the personell and their individual skillsets. I was off by a mile with that thought. I even compared them to the 88 team which I still believe was one of the best Duke Defenses I have ever seen. Ouch.

This summer I am in full wait and see mode with our defense. About the only thing I am confident in with that is what I said in my post, Rasheed and Matt can guard most College 3's. Outside of that I don't really know what to expect on that side of the floor.

[gurufrisbee]

I think it's very likely both Cook and Jones play together. They may not both start, but I think you'll see them both together a lot at the end of games. One thing that was sorely missed this last season was leadership on the court. Cook was the best one on the team for that, but as is still a mystery, he was often in Coach K's doghouse and on the bench when we needed him (though he did also have several games where he didn't start, but ended up playing almost the entire second half because he was clearly so vital to the team). Jones is also reported to be a great leader. We need to get back to when we never let games get away because we had more leadership in crunch time on the court than anyone. Hurley, Laettner, Hill. Scheyer, Nolan, Singler. Battier, Williams, Duhon. You look at the last three years and that is the glaring hole. Why did we lose against Lehigh? Curry in foul trouble, Kelly hurt, and Mason still hadn't really stepped up. THe next year those three guys absolutely did and we almost were in the final four. Then they all graduated and no one stepped up last year. This is why I think a lot of times this next year we'll see Jones, Cook, and SHeed all together because they are the three guys who have to all step up to the level of leadership on the court we have had in the past and need again.

[Saratoga2]

Very nice post, Newton. And love the optimism!

Count me as one of the posters who never gave up on Cook. I loved his game in the first half of last season, and the only thing that I couldn't stand was his hero ball, which he cut down considerably in the second half. Cook is a great passer, a very good ball handler, and a very good shooter. We're lucky to have him.

The one area where I think you're being too optimistic is Tyus's defense. You're right, we haven't seen him play college D. But consider the following:

a) You rarely see anything written about Tyus's defense in high school.
b) In multiple training sessions for high school All-Star games, many analysts criticized Tyus's defense. These All-Star training sessions aren't like the games; rather, players really seem to hustle and try their best
c) The big knock against Tyus is that he isn't that athletic. And while athleticism doesn't automatically turn you into an amazing defender, it does give you an edge.

Now, I hope that Tyus Jones has Aaron Craft-like desire. But, as of right now, I'm not at all sold on Tyus as a defender. As an offensive player and distributor? Absolutely. His passing, his decision making, his clutch ability, and his driving are all excellent.

Bringing up Aaron Craft when talking about Tyus is an interesting comparison. Aaron was not really that tall (maybe 6'1" and when you look at his agility drills he didn't score that well. Yet Aaron was often talked about as a great defender. Maybe Tyus will have that same kind of determination and floor vision that can translate into a top defender in time.

[NSDukeFan]

I believe both Cook and Jones (as well as Sulaimon) will play big minutes and a bunch of those minutes will be together. Where Cook may be challenged by Jones is at the end of games. When Cook is playing at his all-ACC best, he tends to be very good at creating shots at the end of shot clocks, or in stall ball at the end of games. He has often ended up getting to the hoop very well for scores and/or free throws. I am assuming that Jones will have the ball in his hands at the end of games this coming year and that may be an adjustment for Cook, though I expect he will still likely have lots of opportunities to create scoring chances and make free throws at the end of games.

[wk2109]

Why did we lose against Lehigh? Curry in foul trouble, Kelly hurt, and Mason still hadn't really stepped up.

I agree with what you're saying about leadership for the most part, but Duke did not lose to Lehigh because "Mason still hadn't really stepped up." Mason was 9/9 from the field for 19 points. Duke lost because the perimeter couldn't guard CJ McCollum and because Austin, Andre and Seth shot a combined 8/32.

As far as Quinn and Tyus go, I think it's almost certain and Quinn and Tyus will spend a lot of time on the court together. Coach K plays his best players and Quinn and Tyus will almost certainly be among his best players. Maybe they both won't start (for the record I think they both will), but they will be on the court in tandem a lot.

The only time two guys are mutually exclusive on the court is if they're both true centers (the last time I remember this happening is with Miles and Zoubek in 2010). This is why Marshall and Jahlil will probably spend virtually 0 time on the court together.

[Edouble]

I think it's very likely both Cook and Jones play together. They may not both start, but I think you'll see them both together a lot at the end of games. One thing that was sorely missed this last season was leadership on the court. Cook was the best one on the team for that, but as is still a mystery, he was often in Coach K's doghouse and on the bench when we needed him (though he did also have several games where he didn't start, but ended up playing almost the entire second half because he was clearly so vital to the team). Jones is also reported to be a great leader. We need to get back to when we never let games get away because we had more leadership in crunch time on the court than anyone. Hurley, Laettner, Hill. Scheyer, Nolan, Singler. Battier, Williams, Duhon. You look at the last three years and that is the glaring hole. Why did we lose against Lehigh? Curry in foul trouble, Kelly hurt, and Mason still hadn't really stepped up. THe next year those three guys absolutely did and we almost were in the final four. Then they all graduated and no one stepped up last year. This is why I think a lot of times this next year we'll see Jones, Cook, and SHeed all together because they are the three guys who have to all step up to the level of leadership on the court we have had in the past and need again.

I really don't think Cook was out best on court leader last season. He wasn't even a captain.

Also, this was addressed in several thread throughout the season, but Cook was never in Coach K's doghouse last year. He logged 11 and 14 minutes in two February games, IIRC, but was never far outside significant game minutes throughout the season.

[jv001]

I believe both Cook and Jones (as well as Sulaimon) will play big minutes and a bunch of those minutes will be together. Where Cook may be challenged by Jones is at the end of games. When Cook is playing at his all-ACC best, he tends to be very good at creating shots at the end of shot clocks, or in stall ball at the end of games. He has often ended up getting to the hoop very well for scores and/or free throws. I am assuming that Jones will have the ball in his hands at the end of games this coming year and that may be an adjustment for Cook, though I expect he will still likely have lots of opportunities to create scoring chances and make free throws at the end of games.

Unfortunately, I didn't see Quinn creating at the end of half, game or shot clock last year. At the beginning of the year, he was able to drive the lane and make some nifty moves/makes and passes to open team mates. But as the year went on, he seemed not as quick with the ball. Could have been loss of confidence or injury. I hope to see Quinn Cook healthy and at his best this coming season. I believe he just might be the X-factor this year. GoDuke!

[_Gary]

Unfortunately, I didn't see Quinn creating at the end of half, game or shot clock last year. At the beginning of the year, he was able to drive the lane and make some nifty moves/makes and passes to open team mates. But as the year went on, he seemed not as quick with the ball. Could have been loss of confidence or injury. I hope to see Quinn Cook healthy and at his best this coming season. I believe he just might be the X-factor this year. GoDuke!

I concur with this observation. Quinn didn't show me the ability to break down defenders or penetrate the lane much at all last season. If he can regain that ability and make it a strength of his game, while keeping his shooting touch from distance solid, then I believe a combo of Cook and Jones could work. But I'm just not sure he has the quickness to pull this off any more. He seems to have lost a step somewhere along the way, imho.

Since I never got back around to discussing a grouping of Quinn/Tyus/Rasheed I'll do so now. I still maintain that group on the floor together makes us too small. If used sparingly then fine. But if that's our starting group I think it makes us too vulnerable to larger teams. But I'm clearly in the minority on that so I'll say no more (and hope others of you are right - because I do think we'll see that combo on the court a lot).