Mitch McGary - one toke over the line

[wsb3]

Just another example of N.C.A.A. insanity. Smoke a joint and get severely sanctioned. Commit massive academic fraud for over a decade and no big deal. One can hope that the lawsuits and other issues facing the institution will bring about its demise.

I think I just said something along those lines to my wife. But not as eloquently.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Is the only difference between the two cases, that MM got caught through a urine test administered after a game?

Yes.

[stals]

You know the rules, you take your chances, you lose sometimes.
End of story.
Judgment is everything and lessons are learned.

[CDu]

With all due respect, it's more than a "tough break" for McGary. This is a potentially career-changing and life-changing sentence. And for all anyone knows, it may have been for taking a single hit off of a joint at a time when he wasn't even an active member of the team.

You can say he knew the rules and chose to take the risk, and he chose to do something illegal. But doesn't the issue of proportionality have to be a factor -- a major factor -- in one's judgment as to whether the sentence was just? We don't cane people for vandalism like they do in Singapore, and we don't cut off their hands for shoplifting. It's 2014. It's simply unjust -- grotesquely unjust -- in today's society, to impose a one year suspension on a first time "offender" for a minor, minor offense, especially when the realistic consequences to his career, and his life, are potentially so profound. It's out-freaking-rageous, and if it had happened to a key Duke player in the same situation -- or even more obviously, to someone you/we know like a family member -- I think we'd all be saying a lot more than "tough break" or "bad luck."

Firstly, it almost certainly wasn't a single hit off a joint, as many have already noted. You don't test positive based on a single hit off a joint.

But beyond that issue, he knew the rules. It simply doesn't matter if the rules are draconian. If they are the rules, you have to follow them or risk suffering the consequences. He chose to play college basketball, and with that choice comes some explicit limitations to go with the inherent privileges. One of those limitations is that you can't do drugs. Yes, the punishment is harsh. But he made the choice to do it knowing the potential consequences. Such is life.

And if it happened to a Duke player or a family member, I'd be equally disappointed and have the same response. It was a stupid thing for him to do. It definitely stinks for him, but I feel no remorse for him. There are lots of other ways to get your kicks without putting your eligibility at risk. If he didn't want to get suspended, all he had to do was not smoke pot.

[ICP]

Hello? 1956? The next century is calling . . .

No need to get sarcastic, that's kind of silly of you given that no one can really predict the future so we don't know how our society's views and our scientific research on this issue will evolve...

As other pointed out, this is still very illegal. It is also still considered harmful by the latest scientific research, as you can read in the paragraph below.

Here is the latest scientific data from January 2014 on the harmful effects of it, courtesy of the government's official National Institute for Drug Abuse:
http://www.drugabuse.gov/publication...acts/marijuana
Marijuana also affects brain development, and when it is used heavily by young people, its effects on thinking and memory may last a long time or even be permanent. A recent study of marijuana users who began using in adolescence revealed substantially reduced connectivity among brain areas responsible for learning and memory. And a large long-term study in New Zealand showed that people who began smoking marijuana heavily in their teens lost an average of 8 points in IQ between age 13 and age 38. Importantly, the lost cognitive abilities were not fully restored in those who quit smoking marijuana as adults. Those who started smoking marijuana in adulthood did not show significant IQ declines.

[MCFinARL]

Firstly, it almost certainly wasn't a single hit off a joint, as many have already noted. You don't test positive based on a single hit off a joint.

But beyond that issue, he knew the rules. It simply doesn't matter if the rules are draconian. If they are the rules, you have to follow them or risk suffering the consequences. He chose to play college basketball, and with that choice comes some explicit limitations to go with the inherent privileges. One of those limitations is that you can't do drugs. Yes, the punishment is harsh. But he made the choice to do it knowing the potential consequences. Such is life.

And if it happened to a Duke player or a family member, I'd be equally disappointed and have the same response. It was a stupid thing for him to do. It definitely stinks for him, but I feel no remorse for him. There are lots of other ways to get your kicks without putting your eligibility at risk. If he didn't want to get suspended, all he had to do was not smoke pot.

Well, yes, rules are rules. And McGarry took a stupid risk and lost. He admitted as much, and he has never said he shouldn't experience some consequences. But can't justice be tempered with mercy? Given that the NCAA changed its own rule only two weeks after McGarry failed this test, their unwillingness to even consider imposing the new penalty of a half-year suspension rather than the full-year suspension seems both self-righteous and self-important (not that self-importance from the NCAA should be a surprise). And, while I understand that from one perspective each violation should be considered on its own terms, without comparison to what happens in other situations, it's hard not to be a little offended by the NCAA's extreme diligence and rigidity in cases where an individual athlete is the only one who pays and its sometimes much laxer standards when an institution (especially one with a big following) is at risk.

[JPtheGame]

Sometimes I thank god....for unanswered prayers.
I really wanted this kid for Duke. Despite the insidious lowering of societal standards that is making marijuana use ok, Duke would have still taken a major hit (get it) from the folks who look for any and every opportunity to besmirch K. Bullet dodged.

[BD80]

Sometimes I thank god....for unanswered prayers.
I really wanted this kid for Duke. Despite the insidious lowering of societal standards that is making marijuana use ok, Duke would have still taken a major hit (get it) from the folks who look for any and every opportunity to besmirch K. Bullet dodged.

Meeza thinks yoooza gonna need a tall ladder to getsa down from that horse, betcha betcha.


Just a thought. Once McGary realized he was busted (he probably didn't realize that he could be tested while not dressed, and once he was told/asked to dress it was too late) he waited until the results came back to let the NCAA take the blame for him going pro. This way he gets the bump for appearing to want to stay in college and develop and not appear to be just another kid trying to make money quicker. He avoids the microscope of a do-or-die year where he would be the focal point of opposing teams, and the NBA teams are left with last year's tournament run as the only measuring stick in competition. He can avoid pre-draft workouts as he is still recovering from back surgery. He may get into the first round on potential alone.

[tommy]

Sometimes I thank god....for unanswered prayers.
I really wanted this kid for Duke. Despite the insidious lowering of societal standards that is making marijuana use ok, Duke would have still taken a major hit (get it) from the folks who look for any and every opportunity to besmirch K. Bullet dodged.

No it's not "bullet dodged." Because there is no rational way to presume that every decision made and every circumstance and every piece of luck, good and bad, all of which in a unique combination led to McGary smoking pot at the time he did and getting tested when he did, would have been duplicated had he enrolled two years ago at Duke. Many, many, many links in the chain which led to this, including basketball-related links, personal, family, probably social life, academic, physical, and the list could go on and on. Had he enrolled at Duke (or any other school) it is highly likely many, many decisions would have differed, certainly things that happened to him would've been different and therefore his reactions would've been different (or at least could've been) -- the combinations and permutations of links in the chain are infinite. Maybe following all those links, one by one, would have led to McGary being a total pothead. Or to him never touching the stuff. Or somewhere in between. We'll never know. Heck, maybe if the guy down the hall in Apt. 2D hadn't happened to come out of his door at the same instant McGary came out his door and they said hello and ended up hanging out and smoking a joint together - if that guy had slept in 10 minutes longer and didn't come out of his door at the time he did, then this whole thing doesn't happen. If Michigan had been upset in the round before the Tennessee game, such that the Tennessee game was never played, this doesn't happen. It's called life. You can't say at all that his fate would have been the same had he chosen a different college. Life doesn't work that way. Check out the movie Sliding Doors. One seemingly insignificant event or decision, had it gone the other way, can change the entire course of your life.

[g-money]

After reading this story, my first thought is: Who in the world is driving the NCAA bus these days? Have they lost all touch with reality??

[JPtheGame]

No it's not "bullet dodged." Because there is no rational way to presume that every decision made and every circumstance and every piece of luck, good and bad, all of which in a unique combination led to McGary smoking pot at the time he did and getting tested when he did, would have been duplicated had he enrolled two years ago at Duke. Many, many, many links in the chain which led to this, including basketball-related links, personal, family, probably social life, academic, physical, and the list could go on and on. Had he enrolled at Duke (or any other school) it is highly likely many, many decisions would have differed, certainly things that happened to him would've been different and therefore his reactions would've been different (or at least could've been) -- the combinations and permutations of links in the chain are infinite. Maybe following all those links, one by one, would have led to McGary being a total pothead. Or to him never touching the stuff. Or somewhere in between. We'll never know. Heck, maybe if the guy down the hall in Apt. 2D hadn't happened to come out of his door at the same instant McGary came out his door and they said hello and ended up hanging out and smoking a joint together - if that guy had slept in 10 minutes longer and didn't come out of his door at the time he did, then this whole thing doesn't happen. If Michigan had been upset in the round before the Tennessee game, such that the Tennessee game was never played, this doesn't happen. It's called life. You can't say at all that his fate would have been the same had he chosen a different college. Life doesn't work that way. Check out the movie Sliding Doors. One seemingly insignificant event or decision, had it gone the other way, can change the entire course of your life.

That was clearly my point. What a fun and interesting way to kill a conversation.

[oldnavy]

Firstly, it almost certainly wasn't a single hit off a joint, as many have already noted. You don't test positive based on a single hit off a joint.

But beyond that issue, he knew the rules. It simply doesn't matter if the rules are draconian. If they are the rules, you have to follow them or risk suffering the consequences. He chose to play college basketball, and with that choice comes some explicit limitations to go with the inherent privileges. One of those limitations is that you can't do drugs. Yes, the punishment is harsh. But he made the choice to do it knowing the potential consequences. Such is life.

And if it happened to a Duke player or a family member, I'd be equally disappointed and have the same response. It was a stupid thing for him to do. It definitely stinks for him, but I feel no remorse for him. There are lots of other ways to get your kicks without putting your eligibility at risk. If he didn't want to get suspended, all he had to do was not smoke pot.

I agree and I also often disagree with the argument that society has "evolved" such that we should be more tolerant of destructive behaviors. The social mores of the past were not so bad, and one is hard pressed to say that we are better off in terms of societal behavior and overall emotional well being of our citizenry than we were back in the 1950's. In fact I suspect that the rates of just about every destructive type behavior and outcome would be higher now than they were back then. We have made tremendous progress in some areas but have slipped badly in many, many other more fundamental and important areas.

This is a bit off the point, but to make the argument that this is "2014" as if that actually means anything good is a little weak IMO.

However, saying that I do believe that the punishment that McGary received from the NCAA was overkill and given the fact that they recognize that the punishment is overkill, by reducing it just days ago, they should have the good since to make the ruling retroactive at least. But the NCAA isn't known for showing good sense are they?

[Reilly]

... there is no rational way to presume that every decision made and every circumstance and every piece of luck, good and bad, all of which in a unique combination led to McGary smoking pot at the time he did and getting tested when he did, would have been duplicated had he enrolled two years ago at Duke. Many, many, many links in the chain which led to this, including basketball-related links, personal, family, probably social life, academic, physical, and the list could go on and on. Had he enrolled at Duke (or any other school) it is highly likely many, many decisions would have differed, certainly things that happened to him would've been different and therefore his reactions would've been different (or at least could've been) -- the combinations and permutations of links in the chain are infinite. Maybe following all those links, one by one, would have led to McGary being a total pothead. Or to him never touching the stuff. Or somewhere in between. We'll never know. Heck, maybe if the guy down the hall in Apt. 2D hadn't happened to come out of his door at the same instant McGary came out his door and they said hello and ended up hanging out and smoking a joint together - if that guy had slept in 10 minutes longer and didn't come out of his door at the time he did, then this whole thing doesn't happen ...

I agree with this -- no way to know for sure. And yet I also firmly believe leopards don't change their spots, human nature doesn't change much, and individuals fundamental natures don't change much (usually don't -- sometimes they do). Think about it in terms of recruiting and basketball skills: what if Grant Hill, Shane Battier, Ricky Price, Tyler Thornton, whomever had gone to a different school. Their individual links in the chain would all be totally different (different coaches, teammates, dorm-mates, whatever) ... yet I believe the great majority of these Duke players -- of all Duke players -- would still be considered the same type of players that we consider them today, b/c their fundamental natures as players and people are, well, fundamental. No way to prove such a theory, of course.

Heard the author Tom Wofe give a talk one time saying when we are born, we're like a Polaroid picture (the 'shake it shake it' variety): the outlines are already there, the pictures just develop over time. That's not true in every case, and people can and do radically transform their lives and circumstances, but I think it's more true than not.

Also, all of us have within us the capacity for good, bad, boneheadedness, risky behavior, industriousness, sloth, whatever ... it's just that I believe our individual pie charts are generally already set ... environment and randomness can play a part in which part of the pie chart we live in (or get caught in) at any particular moment ... yet the pie charts are pretty well set and so certain folks will have a tendency to do x or y no matter the circumstances, although there can always be exceptions.

Is the guy down the hall in Apt. 2D a UNC player?

How many players did the NCAA test this tournament? How many got caught?

[Buckeye Devil]

I agree and I also often disagree with the argument that society has "evolved" such that we should be more tolerant of destructive behaviors. The social mores of the past were not so bad, and one is hard pressed to say that we are better off in terms of societal behavior and overall emotional well being of our citizenry than we were back in the 1950's. In fact I suspect that the rates of just about every destructive type behavior and outcome would be higher now than they were back then. We have made tremendous progress in some areas but have slipped badly in many, many other more fundamental and important areas.

This is a bit off the point, but to make the argument that this is "2014" as if that actually means anything good is a little weak IMO.

However, saying that I do believe that the punishment that McGary received from the NCAA was overkill and given the fact that they recognize that the punishment is overkill, by reducing it just days ago, they should have the good since to make the ruling retroactive at least. But the NCAA isn't known for showing good sense are they?

Thank you for concisely saying what I wanted to concisely say.

[Atlanta Duke]

You know the rules, you take your chances, you lose sometimes.
End of story.
Judgment is everything and lessons are learned.

True that if you are a player.

OTOH if you run a corrupt athletic program at a NCAA member institution where credits for classes are passed out like cereal box tops and coaches with a history of violating NCAA rules are rewarded with multi-million dollar contracts - not so much.

[Henderson]

You know the rules, you take your chances, you lose sometimes.
End of story.
Judgment is everything and lessons are learned.

I think this misses the point. The problem is the rule. And the lack of judgment by the NCAA. But the NCAA has clearly learned its lesson to some extent and changed the rule. Shame they applied an unjust rule in this case. Again, lack of judgment.

[Dukehky]

Sometimes I thank god....for unanswered prayers.
I really wanted this kid for Duke. Despite the insidious lowering of societal standards that is making marijuana use ok, Duke would have still taken a major hit (get it) from the folks who look for any and every opportunity to besmirch K. Bullet dodged.

Just for the record, I think this is all ridiculous. The NCAA is going to implode in the next ten years and I cannot wait.

Also, what if this had been one of the kids on Duke's team? You would be flipping out that he got a year's suspension. I have seen, with my own two eyes athletes that play a sport all of us watch for a school that all of us like smoking weed during the season. Unlike the UNC excuse that the cheating happens everywhere (it doesn't), college athletes smoking pot does happen EVERYWHERE. I honestly don't know how more kids don't fail this test.