Okafor best college big man since Tim Duncan?

[sagegrouse]

Memory is a little fuzzy, but I recall that Tim Duncan wasn't that big of a deal coming in. I remember some paper (Winston-Salem Journal?) had a blurb comparing the incoming freshmen before his first year at Wake. He came in the same class as Rasheed Wallace. Most other players had lists of awards and accolades. His line went something like 'Center from the Virgin Islands'...

The beginning of his first year wasn't that notable, if I recall. But I think he developed into a decent player.

Look at his wikipedia page if you get a chance, particularly the Wake Forest part.

You are correct! No one knew anything about Duncan, and even Dave Odom was probably astounded how good he was.

[CDu]

Memory is a little fuzzy, but I recall that Tim Duncan wasn't that big of a deal coming in. I remember some paper (Winston-Salem Journal?) had a blurb comparing the incoming freshmen before his first year at Wake. He came in the same class as Rasheed Wallace. Most other players had lists of awards and accolades. His line went something like 'Center from the Virgin Islands'...

The beginning of his first year wasn't that notable, if I recall. But I think he developed into a decent player.

Look at his wikipedia page if you get a chance, particularly the Wake Forest part.

As a freshman, Duncan averaged under 10 ppg. He was extremely good as a sophomore (16.8 ppg, 12.5 rpg) and continued to improve each year after that (20.1 ppg and 14.7 rpg as a senior!).

If Okafor averages just 9.8 ppg next year, I think folks will be disappointed.

[CameronBornAndBred]

As a freshman, Duncan averaged under 10 ppg. He was extremely good as a sophomore (16.8 ppg, 12.5 rpg) and continued to improve each year after that (20.1 ppg and 14.7 rpg as a senior!).

If Okafor averages just 9.8 ppg next year, I think folks will be disappointed.

But he won't go to the NBA.

[crimsonandblue]

As a freshman, Duncan averaged under 10 ppg. He was extremely good as a sophomore (16.8 ppg, 12.5 rpg) and continued to improve each year after that (20.1 ppg and 14.7 rpg as a senior!).

If Okafor averages just 9.8 ppg next year, I think folks will be disappointed.

College basketball was a little different when Duncan came through. So, folks should be disappointed with 9.8 (and he won't score just 9.8).

[CameronBornAndBred]

College basketball was a little different when Duncan came through. So, folks should be disappointed with 9.8 (and he won't score just 9.8).

Did they wear tighter shorts? Smaller hoop? Less facial hair? Just curious what you mean.
Nobody would have been disappointed with Duncan's 9.8 because nobody was hyping him to be the next coming of Ralph Sampson, which in modern day terms is exactly what we are doing with Okafor.

(Edit, don't post late, you will mix up players. Sorry, Ralph )

[Edouble]

Did they wear tighter shorts? Smaller hoop? Less facial hair? Just curious what you mean.
Nobody would have been disappointed with Duncan's 9.8 because nobody was hyping him to be the next coming of Ralph Sampson, which in modern day terms is exactly what we are doing with Okafor.

(Edit, don't post late, you will mix up players. Sorry, Ralph )

I think what he means is that the 1994 NCAA All American Team, Timmy's frosh year, was:

Grant Hill- Senior
Jason Kidd- Sophomore
Donyell Marshall- Junior
Glenn Robinson- Junior
Clifford Rozier - Junior

It was not common to put the highest of expectations on first year players. Nowadays, the Doug McDermotts of the world are the exceptions. Back then they were the norm.

[kAzE]

There's no way knowing for sure, but I'll say there's almost no chance Okafor will be as good as Duncan. Duncan is already one of the top 10 players in the history of basketball. We can pretty much close that discussion until further notice. As for recent comparisons, I see Okafor as a slightly more skilled version of Jared Sullinger. Sullinger came into college at 6'9", 265, with a reputation for being a skilled low post scorer with good feel and good body control, which is very close to what I think Okafor is. Both of them are going to struggle against more athletic centers with length.

Sullinger hasn't exactly lit it up in the NBA, but I think he will potentially be a double double guy down the road. He's definitely a starter in the league, but isn't the type of franchise center people thought he would be out of high school. Okafor is a little bit bigger, and maybe a slightly better scorer, but I think he's going to have the same weaknesses as Sullinger at the next level defensively, and struggling against elite athletes on offense.

In college, however, there's not going to be many guys who can stop him. If the age limit gets raised, and Okafor stays 2 years, I think think Duke benefits more than anyone. Might Adam Silver being a Duke alum have anything to do with this? Hmmmm

In terms of the best big man since Duncan, Anthony Davis currently holds that title, and I'm guessing he will continue to hold that title for some time. He's going to be a perennial MVP candidate in the NBA starting next year, if he can stay healthy. Davis is a beast.

[yancem]

If memory serves, Cherokee Parks was hailed as the most skilled center prospect since Bill Walton. While being the next Duncan may be a bit of a stretch, I do think that he is the most skilled big to come out of high school in a while. The comparison to Sullinger may be close but Okafor is bigger in height and in wingspan. I also think that he may be slightly more athletic as well. I think that he will be a better pro when he gets to the league but we will have to wait to see.

[COYS]

There's no way knowing for sure, but I'll say there's almost no chance Okafor will be as good as Duncan. Duncan is already one of the top 10 players in the history of basketball. We can pretty much close that discussion until further notice. As for recent comparisons, I see Okafor as a slightly more skilled version of Jared Sullinger. Sullinger came into college at 6'9", 265, with a reputation for being a skilled low post scorer with good feel and good body control, which is very close to what I think Okafor is. Both of them are going to struggle against more athletic centers with length.

Sullinger hasn't exactly lit it up in the NBA, but I think he will potentially be a double double guy down the road. He's definitely a starter in the league, but isn't the type of franchise center people thought he would be out of high school. Okafor is a little bit bigger, and maybe a slightly better scorer, but I think he's going to have the same weaknesses as Sullinger at the next level defensively, and struggling against elite athletes on offense.

In college, however, there's not going to be many guys who can stop him. If the age limit gets raised, and Okafor stays 2 years, I think think Duke benefits more than anyone. Might Adam Silver being a Duke alum have anything to do with this? Hmmmm

In terms of the best big man since Duncan, Anthony Davis currently holds that title, and I'm guessing he will continue to hold that title for some time. He's going to be a perennial MVP candidate in the NBA starting next year, if he can stay healthy. Davis is a beast.

Okafor is a bit taller as you say, but he also has more length and certainly appeared a bit more nimble. He you say Okafor is a bit more skilled, but he seems to have a much wider array of post moves than Sullinger did coming out of high school. Sullinger had a great college career and I don't mean to imply that Okafor will necessarily perform better than Sullinger next season (though I suspect he will be right there). However, Jahlil's long term pro potential certainly appears to be much better than Sullinger's.

[budwom]

Gross hyperbole and Duncan comparisons aside, I will say that Okafor has some of the best offensive moves for a big man coming out of high school
that I've seen in a long, long time. Defensively many bigs have been better...but Jahlil really does have an impressive array of post moves.

[OldPhiKap]

And from what I have read, he intends to play three years and get a graduate degree in addition to his undergrad.

Who knows if that will change, but he has at least articulated that plan.

[Olympic Fan]

Memory is a little fuzzy, but I recall that Tim Duncan wasn't that big of a deal coming in. I remember some paper (Winston-Salem Journal?) had a blurb comparing the incoming freshmen before his first year at Wake. He came in the same class as Rasheed Wallace. Most other players had lists of awards and accolades. His line went something like 'Center from the Virgin Islands'...

The beginning of his first year wasn't that notable, if I recall. But I think he developed into a decent player.

Look at his wikipedia page if you get a chance, particularly the Wake Forest part.

Duncan wasn't even the most celebrated recruit in Wake Forest's recruiting class. Odom thought Makhtar N'diaye -- yes, THAT Makhtar N'diage -- was going to be his stud. And Spanish forward Ricardo Peral was a celebrated foreign player. Duncan was an afterthought -- an unknown who got just one other college offer, from Providence. But Wake got in trouble for using a Greensboro janitor to help recruit N'diaye and the kid ended up at Michigan ... before transferring to UNC. Peral had to sit out like 10 games to start his career ... Odom was forced to play Duncan and after a terrible opening game, the kid had something like 18 rebounds in his second college game.

Emeka Okafor was also overlooked. He actually wanted to go to Georgia Tech, but Pail Hewitt had used his last scholarship on a celebrated big man -- was it Randolph Morris? -- then the kid got into trouble (and would up at Kentucky) and by the time Hewitt went back to Okafor, he was already headed to UConn. Hewitt settled for a big stiff from Australia (Luke Schenscher).

Okafor's freshman numbers were similar to Duncan's -- 7.8 ppgs, 9.0 rebounds ... Duncan was 9.8 ppg, 9.6 rebounds. Both became great players as sophomores.

As for the article quoted by the OP, there's one point nobody has brought up. You can't really say Jahlil is going to be the best center since Duncan, since until 2005, almost all the best centers went pro right out of high school -- Dwight Howard, Tyson Chandler, Amare Stoudemire (who was listed as a center), Eddie Curry, Andrew Bynum.

The debate should be: Can Jahlil be the best freshman center since the NBA closed the straight to the NBA loophole. I limit the question to freshman performance since he's almost certainly a one-and-done.

What is his competition? I would suggest that Tyler Hansbrough and Jared Sullinger were excellent (I know neither is an NBA center ... neither is Duncan -- they were centers in college). Joakim Noah was nothing as a freshman (3.5 ppg, 2.7 rpg)

But the clearcut best freshman center in this century was Greg Oden. I know it's fashionable to dump on Oden now -- he did prove a pro flop because of injuries -- but as a freshman at Ohio State, he averaged 15.7 ppg, 9.6 rpb, blocked a ton of shots, made consensus first-team All-American and led OSU to the national title game. He was the No. 1 NBA pick -- ahead of No. 2 Kevin Durant.

If Jahlil is that good as a freshman, I will be VERY happy.

[OldPhiKap]

And from what I have read, he intends to play three years and get a graduate degree in addition to his undergrad.

Who knows if that will change, but he has at least articulated that plan.

My bad -- I was thinking of Obi. Please disregard.

(Although that is really good news about Obi!)

[jimsumner]

Duncan wasn't even the most celebrated recruit in Wake Forest's recruiting class. Odom thought Makhtar N'diaye -- yes, THAT Makhtar N'diage -- was going to be his stud. And Spanish forward Ricardo Peral was a celebrated foreign player. Duncan was an afterthought -- an unknown who got just one other college offer, from Providence. But Wake got in trouble for using a Greensboro janitor to help recruit N'diaye and the kid ended up at Michigan ... before transferring to UNC. Peral had to sit out like 10 games to start his career ... Odom was forced to play Duncan and after a terrible opening game, the kid had something like 18 rebounds in his second college game.

Emeka Okafor was also overlooked. He actually wanted to go to Georgia Tech, but Pail Hewitt had used his last scholarship on a celebrated big man -- was it Randolph Morris? -- then the kid got into trouble (and would up at Kentucky) and by the time Hewitt went back to Okafor, he was already headed to UConn. Hewitt settled for a big stiff from Australia (Luke Schenscher).

Okafor's freshman numbers were similar to Duncan's -- 7.8 ppgs, 9.0 rebounds ... Duncan was 9.8 ppg, 9.6 rebounds. Both became great players as sophomores.

As for the article quoted by the OP, there's one point nobody has brought up. You can't really say Jahlil is going to be the best center since Duncan, since until 2005, almost all the best centers went pro right out of high school -- Dwight Howard, Tyson Chandler, Amare Stoudemire (who was listed as a center), Eddie Curry, Andrew Bynum.

The debate should be: Can Jahlil be the best freshman center since the NBA closed the straight to the NBA loophole. I limit the question to freshman performance since he's almost certainly a one-and-done.

What is his competition? I would suggest that Tyler Hansbrough and Jared Sullinger were excellent (I know neither is an NBA center ... neither is Duncan -- they were centers in college). Joakim Noah was nothing as a freshman (3.5 ppg, 2.7 rpg)

But the clearcut best freshman center in this century was Greg Oden. I know it's fashionable to dump on Oden now -- he did prove a pro flop because of injuries -- but as a freshman at Ohio State, he averaged 15.7 ppg, 9.6 rpb, blocked a ton of shots, made consensus first-team All-American and led OSU to the national title game. He was the No. 1 NBA pick -- ahead of No. 2 Kevin Durant.

If Jahlil is that good as a freshman, I will be VERY happy.

Agree that Oden has been unfairly dismissed.

But Anthony Davis was consensus national POY and led his team to an NCAA title. If Okafor is that good as a freshman, I will be VERY happy.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Agree that Oden has been unfairly dismissed.

But Anthony Davis was consensus national POY and led his team to an NCAA title. If Okafor is that good as a freshman, I will be VERY happy.

Can we merge this thread with the "Jabari" thread and just roll all our hyperbole into one?

I'll be happy if Okafor has the same freshman year as the "other" Okafor... 8pts, 4 blocks, 9 rebounds...

[BD80]

Can we merge this thread with the "Jabari" thread and just roll all our hyperbole into one?

I'll be happy if Okafor has the same freshman year as the "other" Okafor... 8pts, 4 blocks, 9 rebounds...

I think I could 8 points and 9 rebounds if I were to play an entire season (getting starters minutes). The points would undoubtedly be free throws after having taken charges, and the rebounds would all have hit the floor first. Not sure I could come up with 4 (any) blocks.

[mccollums]

I think a more contemporary comparison would be Demarcus Cousins.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...tucky-wildcats

Cousins has a little more length ( 9'5" reach ) and equally quick feet, but Okafor probably jumps a little better.

Cousins was really productive considering his mpg (foul trouble). His attitude/body language/reputation was partially responsible for a lot of the quick whistles he received thus lowering his minutes.

Okafor's size is definitely an asset, but one thing you will notice (especially on the road) is the refs will let teams be REALLY physical with him. Normal fouls go unnoticed because the refs expect the big guy to handle the punishment. However Okafor will have the advantage of shooters around him, better spacing, and more experience (in comparison to Cousins).

My prediction for Okafor would be 29mpg, 16-18ppg... 11-12 rpg and around 2 bpg with around 58% from the field.

[roywhite]

Amile welcomes Jahlil

Nice feature; Jahlil looking good.

[Wander]

Agree that Oden has been unfairly dismissed.

But Anthony Davis was consensus national POY and led his team to an NCAA title.

Davis wouldn't have been consensus national POY if he had happened to play in the same season as Kevin Durant, who has to rank up there with the best (if not the single best) freshman college basketball regular seasons of all time. And Oden led his team all the way to the title game, so not far behind Anthony Davis there either... but Oden's opponent in the title game was one of the best college basketball teams in recent history. Swap Oden's and Davis' opponents: I wouldn't take 2012 Kentucky over 2007 Florida, and I would take 2007 Ohio State over 2012 Kansas. I'd also argue that Kentucky had a little bit better players surrounding Davis than Ohio State had around Oden. Add it all up, and I agree with Olympic Fan that Oden gets the title of Best Freshman Center This Century. But it is close.

On a tangent, Oden and Davis have to both be on the All-Defense team this century, right? I don't know how to fill it out at the guard spots, but I think it starts with Oden, Davis, and Battier.

(Edit: I now see that I'm responding to posts from months ago. Oops)

[Saratoga2]

He hasn't played a single game at the college level. Expectations for him are high but why not wait and see how he performs for Duke before anointing him as the second coming. I think this sort of thread is mere speculation and is just a disservice to him and the team. I hope he will be great but am willing to wait and see from his actual performance.