Josh McRoberts profile

[crdaul]

Today's Charlotte Observer has an article about how important Josh is to the Bobcats. An aside quotes Josh saying Duke was not a good fit for him and that he "probably stayed too long"...anybody have insight into his negative experience?

[Mike Corey]

Here's the link.

Not every player is right for Duke or for Coach K's system.

Let's just leave it at that.

Glad he's doing well in the NBA. Still think that he's one of the most all-around talented players to come through Durham. Had high hopes for him, and only some were reached.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Josh may or may not have been the best fit for Duke, but he absolutely should have left after his first year. There were rumblings about him being a top 5 pick. At the very least, Josh was a guaranteed lottery pick. He had it all: size, athleticism, known for his shot, rebounding... he was destined for the NBA.

However, he ended up staying at Duke and didn't improve like scouts thought he would. He ended up in the second round, which I can imagine the anger and frustration that Josh experienced due to falling so hard and not getting a guaranteed contract.

IMO, Josh is the perfect reason why players should leave early in considered a top 10 pick. You just cannot risk it.

I have a lot of Duke friends who despise Josh for the way he carried himself at Duke and for the way that he never even scratched the surface of his potential. I actually really like Josh, both at Duke and the NBA. IMO, without Josh, we wouldn't be in the tournament in 2007.

[GGLC]

There are Duke players I love and feel a strong connection with, Duke players I remember with fondness, and (by far the smallest group) Duke players who for whatever reason leave me cold when I look back at their time here.

Josh McRoberts is in one of those categories.

[lotusland]

Josh may or may not have been the best fit for Duke, but he absolutely should have left after his first year. There were rumblings about him being a top 5 pick. At the very least, Josh was a guaranteed lottery pick. He had it all: size, athleticism, known for his shot, rebounding... he was destined for the NBA.

However, he ended up staying at Duke and didn't improve like scouts thought he would. He ended up in the second round, which I can imagine the anger and frustration that Josh experienced due to falling so hard and not getting a guaranteed contract.

IMO, Josh is the perfect reason why players should leave early in considered a top 10 pick. You just cannot risk it.

I have a lot of Duke friends who despise Josh for the way he carried himself at Duke and for the way that he never even scratched the surface of his potential. I actually really like Josh, both at Duke and the NBA. IMO, without Josh, we wouldn't be in the tournament in 2007.

I didn't follow recruiting well enough to know his reputation coming in but he did not demonstrate a good shot at Duke and often refused to shoot when left open from 15-ft. If he could have forced defenders to guard hi outside he would have been and offensive force. The same was true for Shav though to a lesser degree.

[oakvillebluedevil]

Josh was never my favorite, but I'm a big Austin Rivers fan. I struggle to reconcile the difference sometimes. I think the difference is that on that '07 team, we really lacked a go-to scorer. Given where Josh was rated as a recruit, I feel like everyone expected him to pick up the offensive production that we lost from JJ and Shelden.

Josh is a really, really good player but scoring isn't his strong suit.

I feel like that misalignment of expectations led to a lot of frustration (perhaps unfairly) among the fanbase (myself definitely included). That was obviously exacerbated by the relatively tough season.

Austin, on the other hand, was exactly who I thought he would be offensively.

[sagegrouse]

Josh was never my favorite, but I'm a big Austin Rivers fan. I struggle to reconcile the difference sometimes. I think the difference is that on that '07 team, we really lacked a go-to scorer. Given where Josh was rated as a recruit, I feel like everyone expected him to pick up the offensive production that we lost from JJ and Shelden.

Josh is a really, really good player but scoring isn't his strong suit.

I feel like that misalignment of expectations led to a lot of frustration (perhaps unfairly) among the fanbase (myself definitely included). That was obviously exacerbated by the relatively tough season.

Austin, on the other hand, was exactly who I thought he would be offensively.

It didn't work out really well for either Josh or Duke. That's not to say it is anyone's fault. Because Josh would be far richer if he had left after his first year, his thoughts of Duke are not totally positive. I mean, basketball is a business.

I root for McBob in the NBA. -- Sage

[Edouble]

I have a lot of Duke friends who despise Josh for the way he carried himself at Duke and for the way that he never even scratched the surface of his potential. I actually really like Josh, both at Duke and the NBA. IMO, without Josh, we wouldn't be in the tournament in 2007.

The way that Josh carried himself during his sophomore year really reflected how I felt about the team. It seemed like Josh thought he was one of the few players on the team with any fight or talent. I tended to agree. Yes, without Josh that year, we might have had a losing record. I am glad for Josh's time in Durham.

There are Duke players I love and feel a strong connection with, Duke players I remember with fondness, and (by far the smallest group) Duke players who for whatever reason leave me cold when I look back at their time here.

Josh McRoberts is in one of those categories.

That's how I feel about Greg Paulus. The look on his face at times during his (and Josh's) sophomore year was one of despair and disbelief. To me, Paulus, from a talent standpoint, was a poor fit for Duke and the reason that season was a downer. Josh kept us treading water, at least.

[CDu]

The way that Josh carried himself during his sophomore year really reflected how I felt about the team. It seemed like Josh thought he was one of the few players on the team with any fight or talent. I tended to agree. Yes, without Josh that year, we might have had a losing record. I am glad for Josh's time in Durham.



That's how I feel about Greg Paulus. The look on his face at times during his (and Josh's) sophomore year was one of despair and disbelief. To me, Paulus, from a talent standpoint, was a poor fit for Duke and the reason that season was a downer. Josh kept us treading water, at least.

I agree. McRoberts gets bashed here by a lot of folks despite being the only player keeping that team afloat. I think folks saw his competitive demeanor and the lack of team success and attributed it all to him as a person/player. But that is an incorrect assessment, in my opinion. The reality is that that 2007 team was just a train wreck in terms of talent and experience. Scheyer, Henderson, Thomas, and Zoubek were not ready for prime time (three of them weren't even close to ready). McClure was a role player at best. Nelson was a gamer, but he never could quite figure out his niche at the college level. And Paulus was a liability. There was no veteran leadership, no interior depth (at least not quality depth), and no point guard.

The problem for McRoberts was that he was asked to do something that wasn't his strength: be the primary post scorer and completely carry the load inside on both ends. Had he gotten to play with, say, Jahlil Okafor and Tyus Jones (or Mason Plumlee and Kyrie Irving)? He'd have been an otherwordly performer. Heck, had he been able to team up with Singler the next year, I think they'd have done some real damage together.

But instead, he got the freshman year versions of Thomas and Zoubek (and McClure) and he got Greg Paulus. Paulus wasn't able to play PG at the major college level. So without any help inside and without a capable PG outside the burden was on McRoberts to do absolutely everything for that team. He did a decent of of it, but it wasn't enough.

I don't blame McRoberts for think that he made a mistake in sticking around for a second year. In reality, that appears to be true. He cost himself a lot of money in doing so. Heck, he probably cost himself money by not going pro straight out of high school, too.

I don't think it was necessarily a case of a bad fit between McRoberts and Duke. I just think it was bad timing that he didn't come in with a better PG and C around him. Had Paulus turned out to be as good as advertised and had Boateng actually developed into the C that folks hoped, maybe McRoberts (and Duke) would have had a better 2007 season and folks wouldn't bury him so.

[COYS]

I agree. McRoberts gets bashed here by a lot of folks despite being the only player keeping that team afloat. I think folks saw his competitive demeanor and the lack of team success and attributed it all to him as a person/player. But that is an incorrect assessment, in my opinion. The reality is that that 2007 team was just a train wreck in terms of talent and experience. Scheyer, Henderson, Thomas, and Zoubek were not ready for prime time (three of them weren't even close to ready). McClure was a role player at best. Nelson was a gamer, but he never could quite figure out his niche at the college level. And Paulus was a liability. There was no veteran leadership, no interior depth (at least not quality depth), and no point guard.

The problem for McRoberts was that he was asked to do something that wasn't his strength: be the primary post scorer and completely carry the load inside on both ends. Had he gotten to play with, say, Jahlil Okafor and Tyus Jones (or Mason Plumlee and Kyrie Irving)? He'd have been an otherwordly performer. Heck, had he been able to team up with Singler the next year, I think they'd have done some real damage together.

But instead, he got the freshman year versions of Thomas and Zoubek (and McClure) and he got Greg Paulus. Paulus wasn't able to play PG at the major college level. So without any help inside and without a capable PG outside the burden was on McRoberts to do absolutely everything for that team. He did a decent of of it, but it wasn't enough.

I don't blame McRoberts for think that he made a mistake in sticking around for a second year. In reality, that appears to be true. He cost himself a lot of money in doing so. Heck, he probably cost himself money by not going pro straight out of high school, too.

I don't think it was necessarily a case of a bad fit between McRoberts and Duke. I just think it was bad timing that he didn't come in with a better PG and C around him. Had Paulus turned out to be as good as advertised and had Boateng actually developed into the C that folks hoped, maybe McRoberts (and Duke) would have had a better 2007 season and folks wouldn't bury him so.

You might think I'm crazy for saying this, but I honestly believe that the 2007 team was not as much of a train wreck as people think. The team was very good on the defensive end while being one of the worst offensive teams K has ever had. That being said, a bad K offense meant the number 51 offense according to KenPom. That's bad for Duke but not horrible by any stretch. Combined with a top 10 defense, the team was ranked number 12 in the country post tournament.

The bad record for the team was mostly due to losing a BUNCH of close games. Obviously, at the end of the day you have to win games, but some of those losses amount to bad luck. Also, as much as we have wanted our defense to be better this past year, the public and fans alike tend to rate teams with good offenses and bad defenses higher than teams with the opposite. The 2007 team played low scoring, grind it out type games that were not as much fun to watch as the usual Duke team. They also managed to lose more close games than the average Duke team. But I actually don't think the season qualifies as a train wreck. The team was competitive even if it had little chemistry.

To relate this back to Josh, he bears the brunt of the disappointment of a fan base that had basically been watching true title contending teams from '98-'06. That period was preceded by the stretch from '86-'94. Talk about tough acts to follow. Whatever faults Josh had, they were magnified by a combination of bad luck and stratospheric expectations. That's not easy for anyone to handle, much less a 19-20 y/o kid. Im sorry Josh didn't enjoy his time at Duke, but I think his sophomore season wasn't nearly as bad as most think.

[flyingdutchdevil]

You might think I'm crazy for saying this, but I honestly believe that the 2007 team was not as much of a train wreck as people think. The team was very good on the defensive end while being one of the worst offensive teams K has ever had. That being said, a bad K offense meant the number 51 offense according to KenPom. That's bad for Duke but not horrible by any stretch. Combined with a top 10 defense, the team was ranked number 12 in the country post tournament.

The bad record for the team was mostly due to losing a BUNCH of close games. Obviously, at the end of the day you have to win games, but some of those losses amount to bad luck. Also, as much as we have wanted our defense to be better this past year, the public and fans alike tend to rate teams with good offenses and bad defenses higher than teams with the opposite. The 2007 team played low scoring, grind it out type games that were not as much fun to watch as the usual Duke team. They also managed to lose more close games than the average Duke team. But I actually don't think the season qualifies as a train wreck. The team was competitive even if it had little chemistry.

To relate this back to Josh, he bears the brunt of the disappointment of a fan base that had basically been watching true title contending teams from '98-'06. That period was preceded by the stretch from '86-'94. Talk about tough acts to follow. Whatever faults Josh had, they were magnified by a combination of bad luck and stratospheric expectations. That's not easy for anyone to handle, much less a 19-20 y/o kid. Im sorry Josh didn't enjoy his time at Duke, but I think his sophomore season wasn't nearly as bad as most think.

I think you're on to something. That Duke era from '98-'06 was just nasty.

We fans expected Josh to simply carry the team and lead us to a S16 with a very nice 32-5 record. In hindsight, with that team, it just wasn't realistic in the slightest. Without Josh, I'm convinced we wouldn't have even made the tournament. Josh was our only real height (remember that we started 6'2" Nelson at the 4. And trust me when I say he's 6'2". I am at least 1 inch taller than D-Marc and I'm 6'3"). We would have had to start freshman Zoubs or LT, and we all know how unready both those players were.

I'm happy this thread came up. Josh is a fantastic player and I'm happy that he is finally doing well.

[bluedevilallie]

I also am in the camp that McRoberts should have left after his first year. I have heard from several people around the program that he was lazy and thought that coming in for a year to win a National Championship alongside Redick and Williams would be easy--and then he'd jump to the NBA. The window is small sometimes to take advantage of your position. What I heard was perhaps not correct but watching him that year it was obvious that he wanted ot be any place but at Duke. That's sad.

I also think that it takes two for any relationship to work. Not to fault the coaches--perhaps it wasn't a good fit for him. The coaches could have done all the right things, and it still wouldn't have worked--as is what happened that year. He is enjoying success now--and that was his ultimate goal.

[rsvman]

.... I mean, basketball is a business...

..-- Sage

No. Basketball is a GAME.


NBA basketball is a business. Made out of a game.

[CDu]

You might think I'm crazy for saying this, but I honestly believe that the 2007 team was not as much of a train wreck as people think. The team was very good on the defensive end while being one of the worst offensive teams K has ever had. That being said, a bad K offense meant the number 51 offense according to KenPom. That's bad for Duke but not horrible by any stretch. Combined with a top 10 defense, the team was ranked number 12 in the country post tournament.

The bad record for the team was mostly due to losing a BUNCH of close games. Obviously, at the end of the day you have to win games, but some of those losses amount to bad luck. Also, as much as we have wanted our defense to be better this past year, the public and fans alike tend to rate teams with good offenses and bad defenses higher than teams with the opposite. The 2007 team played low scoring, grind it out type games that were not as much fun to watch as the usual Duke team. They also managed to lose more close games than the average Duke team. But I actually don't think the season qualifies as a train wreck. The team was competitive even if it had little chemistry.

To relate this back to Josh, he bears the brunt of the disappointment of a fan base that had basically been watching true title contending teams from '98-'06. That period was preceded by the stretch from '86-'94. Talk about tough acts to follow. Whatever faults Josh had, they were magnified by a combination of bad luck and stratospheric expectations. That's not easy for anyone to handle, much less a 19-20 y/o kid. Im sorry Josh didn't enjoy his time at Duke, but I think his sophomore season wasn't nearly as bad as most think.

I definitely don't think you're crazy. And by "train wreck" I meant "train wreck outside of McRoberts." With McRoberts, they were a solid team, but one that (due to poor FT shooting, lack of PG play, and lack of a go-to scorer) was susceptible to close losses. With McRoberts, the starting lineup looked like:

C: McRoberts (31 starts), Zoubek (2)
PF: Thomas (18), McClure (11), McRoberts (1), Nelson (3)
SF: Nelson (23), Henderson (10)
SG: Scheyer (32), Nelson (1)
PG: Paulus (29), Nelson (4)

Take McRoberts out of that mix, and it's a train wreck. No quality play inside (Zoubek and Thomas were far from ready and McClure was overmatched). No consistent scoring punch on the perimeter (Scheyer was at times good but a work in progress; Henderson was a year or two away as well). No PG play to make up for these holes. Just a bad mix, especially given the team's lack of experience (no seniors, just the one junior and a redshirt sophomore).

[Billy Dat]

I also am in the camp that McRoberts should have left after his first year. I have heard from several people around the program that he was lazy and thought that coming in for a year to win a National Championship alongside Redick and Williams would be easy--and then he'd jump to the NBA. The window is small sometimes to take advantage of your position. What I heard was perhaps not correct but watching him that year it was obvious that he wanted ot be any place but at Duke. That's sad.

I also think that it takes two for any relationship to work. Not to fault the coaches--perhaps it wasn't a good fit for him. The coaches could have done all the right things, and it still wouldn't have worked--as is what happened that year. He is enjoying success now--and that was his ultimate goal.

Based on quotes issued by Redick and Shelden in recent years, there was no relationship between the two of them while they were at Duke. As such, I am guessing team chemistry wasn't great in 2005/6, and I remember Josh being a JJ guy, and this Chronicle piece confirms that:
http://www.dukechronicle.com/article...fferent-styles

So heading into the 2006/7 season, we had an inexperienced team and not a lot of holdover chemistry.

I also remember Josh crying into his towel as the Heels were handing it to us in Cameron (with lots of time left in the game, mind you) and Wojo heading over and very aggressively chucking him under the chin and getting in his face. That moment told me that Josh was a different kind of kid that maybe wasn't well suited to the military style of K. He seems more of a free spirit in the Cherokee Parks mold. I am not sure what the Chief's memories of Duke are -he has participated in the K Academy so he must have a pretty strong attraction, but maybe being 10-15 years Josh senior and a product of a different era had him more prepared for the strict style of K? I know I am now in full conjecture mode, but it just felt like Josh wasn't a K-style kid, that he didn't pass some K test of strength and mettle. But, he's made himself into a really solid pro so hats off to him.

[Class of '94]

I also am in the camp that McRoberts should have left after his first year. I have heard from several people around the program that he was lazy and thought that coming in for a year to win a National Championship alongside Redick and Williams would be easy--and then he'd jump to the NBA. The window is small sometimes to take advantage of your position. What I heard was perhaps not correct but watching him that year it was obvious that he wanted ot be any place but at Duke. That's sad.

I also think that it takes two for any relationship to work. Not to fault the coaches--perhaps it wasn't a good fit for him. The coaches could have done all the right things, and it still wouldn't have worked--as is what happened that year. He is enjoying success now--and that was his ultimate goal.

I heard negative things about McRoberts during his time at Duke concerning his attitude/maturity that I'm not going to get into ; but I will say that I absolutely think he's was one of the most talented and gifted players to ever come to Duke. I just wonder if he ever had the right mindset about college in terms of truly being a student athlete and taking positive advantages of the opportunities afforded to him as a Duke student athlete. He reminds me a lot of Austin in that I think Austin imo always wanted to be an NBA player; and if he could have, he would've went straight into the NBA out of HS. If the option was available to Josh (I can't remember if he could've left right all of HS for the NBA at that time), he should've went straight to the NBA because imo I don't think he was truly interested in taking advantage of the Duke experience in a quality way. I'm sure both sides made mistakes; but I'd like to think it was Josh's decision and not K's for him to stay a second year. Also, I don't recall seeing much an improvement (as expected or anticipated) in his game from his freshman to sophomore years which I absolutely hurt his stock. Maybe he could've been a lottery pick had he left after his freshman year; but imo his impact in the league would've been the same or possibly less than what is now (after leaving prior to his junior season). I still think he's just scratched the surface of this talent and hasn't fully tapped into yet; and he's been in the league for almost a decade.

I wish Josh all the best in the NBA; but you have to look at his career and honestly assess it; and the reality is that he has been a journeyman player for all that talent he has. I think he could've worked harder to develop his game. Look at a player like Boozer, he was drafted in the second round as well; but he worked his tail off and earned big contracts when he became a free agent twice. IMO, Josh didn't display the same improvement that Boozer showed and subsequently received lesser contract deals over the course of his career. Part of me wonders if Josh would still be in the league if he had left after his freshman year and been a lottery pick because I'm not sure if his motivation and incentive to improve would've been as high had he received a first round guaranteed contract (and I feel that he should've had more of a chip on his shoulder to work harder and prove himself since he was drafted in the second round; but had first round talent).

With the talent he has, I personally feel that had Josh developed a better work ethic and attitude towards his coaching and making himself better, he would be one of the top NBA players at his position because you can't teach 6'10'' with the passing and dribbling skills of a guard. As much as I love Gerald Henderson, I would argue that Josh is a more skilled and talented player; but i would also argue that Gerald has made a bigger impact in the NBA in terms of stats and contributions to his team than Josh has (and Josh has been in the league longer).

[Wander]

Had he gotten to play with, say, Jahlil Okafor and Tyus Jones (or Mason Plumlee and Kyrie Irving)? He'd have been an otherwordly performer. Heck, had he been able to team up with Singler the next year, I think they'd have done some real damage together.

Well, he DID get to play with one guy who had one of the best seasons for a guard in the history of college basketball and another guy who had several post-player-related records for Duke, and he was hardly "otherworldly." I agree the 2007 season wasn't all his fault, but your view of him is overly rosy, IMO.

[GGLC]

I heard negative things about McRoberts during his time at Duke concerning his attitude/maturity that I'm not going to get into ; but I will say that I absolutely think he's was one of the most talented and gifted players to ever come to Duke. I just wonder if he ever had the right mindset about college in terms of truly being a student athlete and taking positive advantages of the opportunities afforded to him as a Duke student athlete. He reminds me a lot of Austin in that I think Austin imo always wanted to be an NBA player; and if he could have, he would've went straight into the NBA out of HS. If the option was available to Josh (I can't remember if he could've left right all of HS for the NBA at that time), he should've went straight to the NBA because imo I don't think he was truly interested in taking advantage of the Duke experience in a quality way. I'm sure both sides made mistakes; but I'd like to think it was Josh's decision and not K's for him to stay a second year. Also, I don't recall seeing much an improvement (as expected or anticipated) in his game from his freshman to sophomore years which I absolutely hurt his stock. Maybe he could've been a lottery pick had he left after his freshman year; but imo his impact in the league would've been the same or possibly less than what is now (after leaving prior to his junior season). I still think he's just scratched the surface of this talent and hasn't fully tapped into yet; and he's been in the league for almost a decade.

I wish Josh all the best in the NBA; but you have to look at his career and honestly assess it; and the reality is that he has been a journeyman player for all that talent he has. I think he could've worked harder to develop his game. Look at a player like Boozer, he was drafted in the second round as well; but he worked his tail off and earned big contracts when he became a free agent twice. IMO, Josh didn't display the same improvement that Boozer showed and subsequently received lesser contract deals over the course of his career. Part of me wonders if Josh would still be in the league if he had left after his freshman year and been a lottery pick because I'm not sure if his motivation and incentive to improve would've been as high had he received a first round guaranteed contract (and I feel that he should've had more of a chip on his shoulder to work harder and prove himself since he was drafted in the second round; but had first round talent).

With the talent he has, I personally feel that had Josh developed a better work ethic and attitude towards his coaching and making himself better, he would be one of the top NBA players at his position because you can't teach 6'10'' with the passing and dribbling skills of a guard. As much as I love Gerald Henderson, I would argue that Josh is a more skilled and talented player; but i would also argue that Gerald has made a bigger impact in the NBA in terms of stats and contributions to his team than Josh has (and Josh has been in the league longer).

Can't spork you, so just wanted to say that this was a great post.

Carlos is absolutely the poster child for someone who's been able to carve out a long and profitable NBA career for himself based on unwavering hard work and discipline; I really admire him for that.

[Billy Dat]

Another aspect of Josh's career that made a big impression on me at the time was the comparison to Psycho T. Josh was considered a better big man prospect yet Psycho T immediately outshone him, especially considering the regular season finale loss at Cameron. The 15/501 battle of "Class of 2005" High School big men, was never even close. That must have gotten into his head a little.

Still, though, I do recall trying to play to Josh's strengths, setting him up outside, trying to maximize his passing, calling him "a point guard on stilts", etc.

[freshmanjs]

No. Basketball is a GAME.


NBA basketball is a business. Made out of a game.

i think it's incredibly naive to think that basketball is only a business in the NBA. It's a business all the way down to AAU. College basketball is big business too.