Parker declares for NBA draft

[mkirsh]

I hope that he is not considered a representative of Duke. He is a great kid and very talented, but all he really did was take advantage of the Duke coaches. One and done does that everywhere. I wish he had stayed a few more years, if not graduated, then I would consider him a fine representative of Duke. As it stands....nope.

How does his leaving take advantage of the Duke coaches? When they recruited him they knew he was very likely one and done, and they were the ones that asked him to come to Duke. Unless he misled them somehow then each side got what it wanted/expected from the other (not that I believe they would even view it this way) -- Jabari made Duke a better team this year, and Duke provided Jabari a year of education, player development, and a platform to pursue his dream to the NBA. I could just as easily argue that if the coaches convinced him to stay they could be accused of taking advantage of him (like we all say about Coach Williams down the road with Barnes, Davis, Hansbrough, etc) but that's not fair either.

Also keep in mind perspective. We are all long-time or even life-long Duke fans, so of course if we were in the same situation the pull to play another year for Duke would be really strong for any of us. Jabari has been a life-long NBA fan, growing up in a pro-sports town, and only chose to come to Duke last year. Although it sounds like he really enjoyed and valued his time at Duke, I can see how it would be hard to defer his life-long dream for another year of playing against what is frankly inferior competition.

Best of luck to JP in the NBA, and thanks for your time at Duke.

[Des Esseintes]

For the same age cohort? Yeah, I probably would. Granted that it's a lot easier to be a philanthropist when you have million-dollar contracts waiting for you. But that doesn't exactly cut *against* Parker's decision.

No, you're totally wrong. The NBA guys who sometimes go to strip clubs are wasting their lives and their minds. Whereas the Wall Street dudes who attended four years of college with me and sometimes go to strip clubs are doing really valuable, society-building things. In fact, just think how much worse we'd all be if the Wall Street dudes from Duke and the Ivies had spent the last twenty years playing basketball instead of adding such great innovations to human history as credit default swaps and high-frequency trading.

[Edouble]

Again, the dude is a son of an NBA player. I think we are engaging in absolute fantasy if we think we know more about how the next few years will go than he does. Everyone here wants to believe Duke is a special place. And it is! But it's intellectually lazy for us to assume nowhere else is special, and nobody grows anywhere else. I also see no reason to assume an NBA locker room is mostly guys of below-average intelligence. Being physically gifted does not mean a decreased likelihood of being mentally gifted. To say otherwise is a dangerous and insulting chauvinism.

Again, I made it clear that I was paraphrasing something that Shane Battier said. Please note that I am referencing a source.

With regard to Sonny Parker: I think it's reasonable to question how transferable the experience of playing in the NBA from 1976 to 1982 is to playing in today's NBA. In fact, I would venture to say that Coach K, with a stable of players in the league and connections via USA Basketball to many of the league's top stars, would know much more about life in the NBA than Sonny Parker. A person that would know a lot about what it is like to have an NBA career would be Shane Battier, who, again, does not give the impression that the league is the kind of place for personal growth that Duke is!

[SoCalDukeFan]

I understand your sentiment, and I'm sure a lot agree with you. I'd rather not have one-and-dones, but the system absolutely enables college programs to do is.

Also, I think you're giving Harvard, Stanford, and Wisconsin too much basketball credit. These are good, but not great, programs. Duke is a great program. Unfortunately, that means we need to engage in amazing talent to keep us this way. And that means dipping our toe into one-and-done.

UConn, Wisconsin and Florida were 3 of the Final Four teams and none of them has had a one and done or even early entry player this year, at least announced so far.

The best team generally wins championships, not the collection of best players. I know you can not predict who will be a one and done and some this year are surprising to me and some may regret it. However I would rather that we stop recruiting the pretty obvious 1 and dones and get back to building teams that win championships. Coach K restructured the offense around Hood and Parker and in my opinion confused the roles of Rasheed and Cook. The offense needs to change completely again for next year feature Okafor, who will leaver after one year.

I liked it better when K talked about guys not unpacking their bags rather than what an honor it was to coach them for a year.

SoCal

[Here is a Turtle]

Jabari was enjoyable to watch. Can't fault him for leaving when you stand to make millions. If the current system says you can go, you might as well go. Wish him the best of luck.

[CDu]

I meant DBR's resident Bulls fan, CDu. Neglecting to mention Scheyer and Collins were big misses, perhaps I was filtering out anyone who might have been a classmate of Lucas Bly, Gary and Wyatt, John Bender, Jake Ryan, Conrad Jarrett or Andie Walsh.

Whoops, my bad! Totally didn't see who originally said "CDu." I would have definitely known you'd know where the real CDu was from! Maybe I should check the name of the posters before posting...

I think the omissions of Scheyer and Collins are okay. A Chicago kid won't think of Northbrook as Chicago. For us outsiders, though, I guess it counts.

[MCFinARL]

Well handled overall, but I'm a little surprised by the statement that the nba is clearly where he has the best opportunity to develop off the court. Seems odd, and as someone who would love to be immersed in the environment at duke once again, I am struggling to figure out what that means.

Many interesting comments on the thread about this statement, which--from the perspective of the mostly college-educated and often Duke-educated members of this board--seems counterintuitive. There is one way, though, that this could make a lot of sense. Admittedly, the NBA isn't exactly the "real world," as somebody already noted. But it is not the sheltered world of a Duke basketball player either, with required study halls, strict daily schedules (not that there isn't some of that in the NBA), and a lot of help available for any kind of issue or decision. Maybe Jabari, who seems to be fairly mature, is eager to take more responsibility for himself and his own decisions than he can easily do in the college environment. In that way, the NBA would be a better opportunity for personal growth. Certainly, as a religious young man with strong principles, he will have plenty of opportunities to strengthen his ability to resist temptation, if nothing else. And because he plans to continue his education at Duke, he may not feel that he is forfeiting all of the opportunities for personal growth that Duke represents.

I hope that he is not considered a representative of Duke. He is a great kid and very talented, but all he really did was take advantage of the Duke coaches. One and done does that everywhere. I wish he had stayed a few more years, if not graduated, then I would consider him a fine representative of Duke. As it stands....nope.

I know I am unlikely to change your mind, which seems pretty set here. But I think this is not fair to Jabari at all. The Duke coaches knew going in that Jabari was likely to leave after one year or at most two, and they were willing to take that risk. So I doubt they feel they were taken advantage of. And Jabari clearly enjoyed participating fully in the academic side of Duke as well as in basketball; he has always said he wants to get a college degree, and in his statement he repeated that he plans to graduate from Duke, taking classes as he can while in the NBA. If he does that, will that turn him into a "fine representative" in your eyes, even though he played only one year of basketball?

Granted, there is a lot about the current system that stinks from a fan's perspective, and personally I would be much happier if basketball had a system like baseball, where players could elect to go straight from high school into the pros at some level or go to college for at least three years. But that isn't the system, and I don't think it's right to argue that a kid who comes to Duke for a year and then decides to leave for the NBA is necessarily not worthy of representing Duke. He chose Duke for that year, and Duke chose him. So he is a representative of Duke, whether we like it or not, and I think he will be a very good one.

[sagegrouse]

Jabari was recruited as a OAD. He ended up as a OAD. It was still an emotional departure for most of us. Sic transit gloria basketballi.

[jipops]

I am not the son of an NBA player, nor have I been a basketball player at Duke University. Jabari *is* both of those things. So if he thinks he will develop more as a person and player in the NBA, I think I should trust him to know that answer best. I'm curious what experience or knowledge you bring to this discussion to say he is "badly wrong."

I think Kendall Marshall and Danny Green could even make good arguments that they even developed better as players in the D league than in college. This is not meant to be a knock on UNC, just that these guys could devote almost all their attention on the development of their games. There was not a mandatory limitation on time to do it, nor is there in the NBA of course. In this sense Jabari may be far from being "badly wrong".

[camion]

I wish Jabari the best in his pursuit of his dream. He's a great kid and I expect him to do well.



I just wish that he had asked himself the third, and in my mind, most important question: "What would make Camion happier?"

For some reason no one ever considers that when deciding these things.

[johnb]

If I were one of the greatest at what I do, and there were an opportunity to compete at the very highest level, I think I'd want to give it a shot. While it pains me to say it, another year would be remediating from a basketball point of view. Nobody at Texas complains when their golfer goes pro and finishes second at the Masters. And obviously nobody complains about baseball and hockey players who go pro with minimal chance of making the major leagues of their sport. If we're lucky, we'll get a Jabari every year; he's not the reason we flamed out. And yeah, final four teams tend to have a bunch of seniors, but they tend to be different teams year in and year out; I think we'd be really be bummed if we were final four favorites only every 3-4 years.

By the way, I'd imagine that NBA/NFL locker rooms are kinda testosterone fueled. Not that the guys would be necessarily unintelligent or thoughtless, but these are pro athletes we're talking about. And while Shane might have been a bit out of water, he wouldn't be famous for being an intellectual if he'd gone into a more typical Duke profession--in those, he'd be seen as really tall and a strong leader, but probably not seen as the second coming of Walter Benjamin or Isaiah Berlin or somebody...

[CDu]

I think Kendall Marshall and Danny Green could even make good arguments that they even developed better as players in the D league than in college. This is not meant to be a knock on UNC, just that these guys could devote almost all their attention on the development of their games. There was not a mandatory limitation on time to do it, nor is there in the NBA of course. In this sense Jabari may be far from being "badly wrong".

Yeah, I would absolutely agree with the sentiment that you'll improve your game more at the NBA level than in college. The quality of competition is better and the amount of time spent devoted to basketball is greater.

The comment about growing off the court is much harder to measure. Some people grow more in the "real world" than in college. I sure did. Some people gain a lot from their college experiences. I sure did. Who's to say which venue provides the most opportunity for growth? Seems like each path offers opportunity for growth - just maybe differences in experiences.

I think sage summed it up though with the comment: "Jabari was recruited as a OAD. He ended up as a OAD." To have expected anything beyond one year was, as many have said all along, expecting too much.

Hopefully the coaching staff will continue to learn to adapt and have better team success with the one-and-dones. It appears that Coach K hasn't quite gotten the hang of it just yet. Next year's class is going to be as good a class as we're likely to get in Coach K's remaining years, so I hope he's a quick study.

[jipops]

I hope that he is not considered a representative of Duke. He is a great kid and very talented, but all he really did was take advantage of the Duke coaches. One and done does that everywhere. I wish he had stayed a few more years, if not graduated, then I would consider him a fine representative of Duke. As it stands....nope.

You have to be awfully naive not to have thought that Jabari wasn't going to be here for just one year. If you were indeed not that naive, then I guess you must have thought lesser of Jabari the entire season based on your logic? Or did you just decide this today as his decision has become official? It would also be extremely naive to even assume that every kid who is a one-and-done is exactly the same person.

And to suggest that he was merely here to take advantage of Duke coaches... Are you suggesting that the Duke coaches were in no way recruiting him to take advantage of his talents? C'mon man.

The kid has potential to be an excellent representative of Duke because of the way he carries himself. This has nothing to do with if he's been at Duke for 1 year or 4 years, that doesn't matter. He invested himself in Duke for the year he was here, and all accounts I've seen are that rang true academically as well. He's a Duke guy, I'm betting K will tell anybody that quite plainly.

I think you're confusing your own sour grapes with a kid who has chosen an understandable path to make his life even better. Who else does he actually owe something to and what would it be?

[Kedsy]

There is a disconnect in college sports. But I think it comes from us fans, rather than from the players, the coaches, or "the system."

In pro sports, we root for our teams to win, and thus we want them to get the best players, however they do it. Although not really, because unless you're a New York Yankees fan, you probably aren't in favor of just "buying" the best team -- where's the fun and challenge in that?

College is different from the pros, though, because we're rooting for our school, not some collection of professionals. Or it would be different if the teams were composed of people who came to school to be students, rather than athletes, as it was when intercollegiate athletics began. Or even if they came from the region around the school, like it was in the old days. Or even to some extent if the coaches had to scour the country to find unpolished gems, as would generally happen in the not-too-distant past. But now, with almost all schools participating to some extent in national recruiting, and with what's essentially a whole industry centered around recruiting information, what makes Duke basketball players "belong" to Duke? Seems to me it's no more or less than the fact that the players wanted to play at Duke, or at least agreed to do so after hearing impassioned pleas from the coaching staff.

If a college basketball team fails to gather the best available talent, the fans complain that the coaches aren't recruiting well enough. We heard it here at DBR during the "dark" recruiting days of 2006 to 2009, when all we did was pull in 7 top 20 guys (plus three more top 30 guys) in four years -- but only one top ten guy and people were lamenting how Coach K had lost it on the recruiting trail. Here in Philadelphia, Temple fans are talking about dumping Fran Dunphy because he doesn't recruit well enough -- they're going on about a different level of recruiting, but it's the same song we've heard around here.

And as long as this is the case, we're not talking about students playing sports, we're talking about athletes who are going to school.

Better coaches/recruiters can convince better players to play for them, and if they don't the fans and boosters will call for their dismissal. In that environment, you get the players for as long as they wish to play for your team. To suggest otherwise -- unless you have honestly never been even a little upset if your team wasn't as talented as you wanted it to be -- is a fairly high form of hypocrisy. As fans it's more fun if you can watch a kid play for four years and see him grow and blossom, blah, blah, blah, but if you insist on having the best possible team, well then sorry, you get what you get.

[GGLC]

You have to be awfully naive not to have thought that Jabari wasn't going to be here for just one year. If you were indeed not that naive, then I guess you must have thought lesser of Jabari the entire season based on your logic? Or did you just decide this today as his decision has become official? It would also be extremely naive to even assume that every kid who is a one-and-done is exactly the same person.

And to suggest that he was merely here to take advantage of Duke coaches... Are you suggesting that the Duke coaches were in no way recruiting him to take advantage of his talents? C'mon man.

The kid has potential to be an excellent representative of Duke because of the way he carries himself. This has nothing to do with if he's been at Duke for 1 year or 4 years, that doesn't matter. He invested himself in Duke for the year he was here, and all accounts I've seen are that rang true academically as well. He's a Duke guy, I'm betting K will tell anybody that quite plainly.

I think you're confusing your own sour grapes with a kid who has chosen an understandable path to make his life even better. Who else does he actually owe something to and what would it be?

To be extremely pedantic, sour grapes would be if dukepsy1963 reacted to Jabari declaring by saying, "That's fine, we don't need him anyway. We'll be a better team without him."

Just to be clear.

[duke79]

No, you're totally wrong. The NBA guys who sometimes go to strip clubs are wasting their lives and their minds. Whereas the Wall Street dudes who attended four years of college with me and sometimes go to strip clubs are doing really valuable, society-building things. In fact, just think how much worse we'd all be if the Wall Street dudes from Duke and the Ivies had spent the last twenty years playing basketball instead of adding such great innovations to human history as credit default swaps and high-frequency trading.

LOL. So true. I remember when the Duke alumni magazine, back in 2009 or 2010, had a somewhat laudatory cover story on the various Duke grads who were in the top echelons (or at the very top) of the major investment banks - Bear Stearns, Lehman Bros., Goldman, etc. - during the time that these firms were at least partly responsible for the financial meltdown that did tremendous damage around the world (and from which we have not fully recovered). I was thinking at the time - I'm not sure this is something the university should really be bragging about, in my opinion.

[InSpades]

For the same age cohort? Yeah, I probably would. Granted that it's a lot easier to be a philanthropist when you have million-dollar contracts waiting for you. But that doesn't exactly cut *against* Parker's decision.

If his only goal was philanthropy then yes, getting the most money he could would be the #1 priority. He said developing off the field... you will *never* convince me that the NBA will develop people better than college (and certainly not a prestigious university such as Duke). Isn't that why people go to college? To develop? The NBA will certainly develop him on the court, off the court... they could probably care less. I'm sure he will develop just fine anyway... he seems like a great kid, but being among some of the most intelligent like-minded peers he could find would certainly only help that.

[jipops]

To be extremely pedantic, sour grapes would be if dukepsy1963 reacted to Jabari declaring by saying, "That's fine, we don't need him anyway. We'll be a better team without him."

Just to be clear.

I felt I was already being punctilious.

[rsvman]

.... It's tautological to say that someone left early because they valued their own personal and professional development. He could have valued his own personal and professional development and stayed in school for another season as a result.

That word doesn't mean what you think it means. You know, since we're being punctilious.

[Edouble]

I hope that he is not considered a representative of Duke. He is a great kid and very talented, but all he really did was take advantage of the Duke coaches. One and done does that everywhere. I wish he had stayed a few more years, if not graduated, then I would consider him a fine representative of Duke. As it stands....nope.

LOL, I wish he had taken a bit more advantage of the Duke coaches when they were teaching defense!

Looks like his plan is to graduate though. I hope you make your peace with him at that point.