UNC athletics scandal - McCants points finger

[JasonEvans]

Importing this from new "stalking thread," as its subject matter is the athletic scandal. Thanks to diablesseblu for link. Strongly recommend you read the article linked, latest from John Shelton Reed, on Carolina Waywardness. I've been mostly discouraged, just occasionally hopeful, about the UNC faculty. Alas, his sole comment about his former faculty colleagues simply notes their silence, including about administration complicity.

You should read this. It's thorough, heartfelt, devastating, from a fervent, but honest, Carolina loyalist. And don't miss the link Reed provides near the end of his essay to alumni letters.

There is a sad undercurrent, with which I disagree, in that essay. The author seems to believe that it is impossible to field a strong football team without breaking the rules and making serious academic compromises. I think he is wrong.

Duke's football team last year was pretty clearly among the top 20 or so in the nation and we take the STUDENT-athlete equation to a level most schools would never dare. Stanford and Notre Dame are the gold standards, programs that appear to make almost no compromises for academics and yet field teams that often are in the hunt for a National Title. Despite some other problems, Penn State has always been a school where academics mattered. In recent years, we've seen Navy, Northwestern, Vandy, and Wake all do quite well on the gridiron while producing strong graduation rates. Believe it or not, LSU does a pretty good job of graduating football players too.

It can be done. It has been done. It just takes a little more effort and attention to detail. If Carolina was willing to put in the effort, rather than take shortcuts and break rules, they could be a program like this too. Shame on them for trying to take the easier, but dishonest, path.

-Jason "that article is so sad -- Friday is dead and one has to wonder what Dean would say about this stuff if he still had his wits about him" Evans

[arnie]

There is a sad undercurrent, with which I disagree, in that essay. The author seems to believe that it is impossible to field a strong football team without breaking the rules and making serious academic compromises. I think he is wrong.

Duke's football team last year was pretty clearly among the top 20 or so in the nation and we take the STUDENT-athlete equation to a level most schools would never dare. Stanford and Notre Dame are the gold standards, programs that appear to make almost no compromises for academics and yet field teams that often are in the hunt for a National Title. Despite some other problems, Penn State has always been a school where academics mattered. In recent years, we've seen Navy, Northwestern, Vandy, and Wake all do quite well on the gridiron while producing strong graduation rates. Believe it or not, LSU does a pretty good job of graduating football players too.

It can be done. It has been done. It just takes a little more effort and attention to detail. If Carolina was willing to put in the effort, rather than take shortcuts and break rules, they could be a program like this too. Shame on them for trying to take the easier, but dishonest, path.

-Jason "that article is so sad -- Friday is dead and one has to wonder what Dean would say about this stuff if he still had his wits about him" Evans

When Dean had his wits about him, he looked the other way. The academic issues go back to his tenure and UNC clearly admitted several bball players that had no chance to survive real academics. Crompton and Madden come to mind. Dean got very defensive anytime anyone questioned their admissions and the press typically gave him a pass. Dean knew how to work the system.

[FerryFor50]

When Dean had his wits about him, he looked the other way. The academic issues go back to his tenure and UNC clearly admitted several bball players that had no chance to survive real academics. Crompton and Madden come to mind. Dean got very defensive anytime anyone questioned their admissions and the press typically gave him a pass. Dean knew how to work the system.

Agreed. I don't think Dean's tenure at UNC when he was healthy is off limits, regardless of his current health state. This isn't about Dean - it's about UNC as a whole.

[Henderson]

Every time I see the title of this thread my mind flashes to Raymond Felton, and I think, "Ol' Roy should count his lucky stars that McCants is only pointing a finger."

[ChrisP]

From now on, he shall be known as "Julius N'ayngointojail"

[lotusland]

There is a sad undercurrent, with which I disagree, in that essay. The author seems to believe that it is impossible to field a strong football team without breaking the rules and making serious academic compromises. I think he is wrong.

Duke's football team last year was pretty clearly among the top 20 or so in the nation and we take the STUDENT-athlete equation to a level most schools would never dare. Stanford and Notre Dame are the gold standards, programs that appear to make almost no compromises for academics and yet field teams that often are in the hunt for a National Title. Despite some other problems, Penn State has always been a school where academics mattered. In recent years, we've seen Navy, Northwestern, Vandy, and Wake all do quite well on the gridiron while producing strong graduation rates. Believe it or not, LSU does a pretty good job of graduating football players too.

It can be done. It has been done. It just takes a little more effort and attention to detail. If Carolina was willing to put in the effort, rather than take shortcuts and break rules, they could be a program like this too. Shame on them for trying to take the easier, but dishonest, path.

-Jason "that article is so sad -- Friday is dead and one has to wonder what Dean would say about this stuff if he still had his wits about him" Evans

I think the essayist's point was that the chances of building a maintaining a football program that is a perennial contender at a top school without making questionable sacrifices are slim to none in most cases. I tend to agree with him but if you are going to argue his point using Duke as an example then you can't use only one season. I think Duke's football success or lack thereof over the past 20-years makes a stronger argument in favor of his point. As you say, Notre Dame is the gold standard for football much like Duke is for basketball and even so, both make enormous sacrifices for academics meaning practically the entire squads are made up of student athletes who would not have been accepted if they weren't elite athletes. Duke basketball and ND football have been able to succeed with student athletes who are bright and, with considerable support, can remain eligible and even complete their degrees. That is commendable for both the student athletes and their respective universities but it's a much different standard than student population outside of the revenue sports. Yet Duke is still a long way from establishing a football program that is a perennial contender. I don't think the goal at UNC was to field a team that every so often could sniff the top 20. If Duke is able to maintain a top football program over time I will be the first to admit I'm wrong but I have serious doubts. If Cut produces another winner this year and doesn't bolt for more money, better facilities, etc. at a higher profile school with better recruiting opportunities then he is truly the exception. In order to compete at the highest level you have to compete for the best players. There are not enough future NFL players that can succeed at a top university for ND, Stanford, Duke, Vandy and others to all have SEC level talent without admitting some guys who just aren't college material much less capable of succeeding at a top school without cheating. As far as LSU doing a good job of graduating football players all I can say is so did UNC when Butch was there. I'm not buying for a second that LSU's football team is made up of student athletes that could succeed in college without big time compromises. I think if Duke really went all out to compete with LSU the would be much more likely to end up like Miami and UNC than Notre Dame and even Notre Dame's program is a few notches below Alabama.

[cowetarock]

The way it usually works in the federal system is the case is dropped against an individual defendant after charges have been brought if the prosecutor concludes the evidence that can be admitted no longer supports a conviction for the charges. If a defendant is cooperating with the prosecutors but the evidence still supports one or more of the charges brought then as part of a plea the prosecutors can recommend a reduced sentence under 5K of the federal sentencing guidelines pursuant to the defendant having provided substantial assistance in the investigation prosecution of another person who has committed an offense

Dismissing criminal charges based upon an individual defendant cooperating with an organization's internal investigation sounds novel to me - I agree with the post above that the prosecutor may have run into some proof or other issues that adversely impact the case.

I am a retired lawyer who was rarely involved with criminal cases and never in NC. If I am correct Dr. N is a grad of Duke Law and is represented by one of the best defense lawyers in NC. I assume the standard legal advice in regard to not talking to anyone about the case was given. Now for some reason Dr. N is with the apparent approval of his lawyer talking on the record to a total stranger to the legal case and the DA is claiming he has made no deal and is getting reports about the talks.If there is in fact no deal how does this make sense on the defense side? The irony of the case would be if Dr. N beats the rap not by talking but by not talking too much.

[wsb3]

When Dean had his wits about him, he looked the other way. The academic issues go back to his tenure and UNC clearly admitted several bball players that had no chance to survive real academics. Crompton and Madden come to mind. Dean got very defensive anytime anyone questioned their admissions and the press typically gave him a pass. Dean knew how to work the system.

Very good post. I have known many UNC grads over the years who were diehard fans but at the same time told many stories about the passes basketball players were granted during Dean's time.

[Olympic Fan]

When Dean had his wits about him, he looked the other way. The academic issues go back to his tenure and UNC clearly admitted several bball players that had no chance to survive real academics. Crompton and Madden come to mind. Dean got very defensive anytime anyone questioned their admissions and the press typically gave him a pass. Dean knew how to work the system.

But with Dean's extraordinary graduation rate, it made sense to give him incredible flexibility on admissions -- almost ALL his kids got degrees, no matter how unprepared they were for college.

Of course, with all we now know, it's reasonable to question how honest those degrees were.

I keep saying -- that's what I hate most about the scandal and how UNC has done its best to deny, deflect and cover up the story. By doing that they've trashed Dean Smith's legacy -- it's possible of course that the academics of his basketball team were on the up and up and the cheating only began with Guthridge, his right hand man for 25 years (who certainly benefited from Julius Peppers and his phony transcript) or Roy Williams (Dean's protégé). But we don't know -- and there is at least some evidence that all this started under Dean (the sudden exodus of basketball players to the AFAM program in the early 1990s ... coincidentally, just as Dr. Nyang'oro took over the program).

If UNC had ever really gotten to the bottom of the scandal, maybe they could have cleared Dean ... or maybe one of the reasons they fought so hard to avoid getting to the bottom of it was that it would have shown how phony Smith was.

To me, this scandal impact's Dean's legacy in much the same way that Sam Gilbert colors our memory of John Wooden.

PS This scandal has also tarnished my memory of Bill Friday. The last interview he gave before his death was about the scandal and his response was essentially "nothing to see here ... move along."

[gumbomoop]

From a critic of Carolina Waywardness. Nestled among the jokes is some critical analysis. The responses are worth a look, as well, unless you're just tired of it all.

http://www.bobleesays.com/Blogs/BobL...Game-Game.aspx

[grad_devil]

Sorry...just noticed this thread got bumped off of the first page, and had to rectify the situation.

May it stay on the forefront of our hearts and minds - and of those in the rest of the country - until UNC-CH finally comes clean about this whole mess.

[chaosmage]

CNN Article basically stating that the Dr's cooperation may lead to criminal charges being dropped. I'll leave it to the better minds on the board to sort this one out.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/29/us/unc...html?hpt=hp_t2

[CameronBornAndBred]

CNN Article basically stating that the Dr's cooperation may lead to criminal charges being dropped. I'll leave it to the better minds on the board to sort this one out.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/29/us/unc...html?hpt=hp_t2

The meat of the article is in the following statements.

Woodall said he thinks it is better for the community to have Nyang'oro's cooperation -- to understand why, how and when the paper classes began and who had knowledge of them -- than to have a criminal prosecution move forward. In either case, Woodall said, Nyang'oro is likely eligible for a diversionary program that would eventually lead to the charges being dismissed.
"Even though it's a noncriminal investigation, that is more important than this," Woodall said, referring to Wainstein's review.
"The money is paid back already," Woodall said. "This was more of an academic scandal than any kind of criminal issue. ... In the criminal probe, what we're left with is one low-level nonviolent felony for a person never in trouble before in his life."

My concern is that line that states "that is more important than this"; does that mean we'll actually see some actionable results from the Wainstein review? If not, than everything is further pushed under the rug, and that will probably be the last we hear of Carolina's issues.
I do actually agree with the last statement. What Nyang'oro did was wrong, but I'm not sure a fair punishment would be to hang a felony on him. He did not act alone, he is simply the best scapegoat for a whole institution.

[blueduke59]

Who does this surprise? Woodall is a UNC alum is he not? Isn't there anyone in North Carolina capable of investigating the skulduggery going on at UNC who didn't graduate from that school?

[arnie]

Who does this surprise? Woodall is a UNC alum is he not? Isn't there anyone in North Carolina capable of investigating the skulduggery going on at UNC who didn't graduate from that school?

No, not if providing the UNC-prepared findings are the primary investigative goal. I imagine he has has his marching orders wrt protecting the guilty.

[hudlow]

Who does this surprise? Woodall is a UNC alum is he not? Isn't there anyone in North Carolina capable of investigating the skulduggery going on at UNC who didn't graduate from that school?

With graduates of The UNC School of Journalism in almost every news organization in the state, we've rarely seen anything investigated or reported without the benefit of baby blue tinted glasses....