Musings Of 2014-15 Starters & Rotation Players

[SupaDave]

Based on comments in this thread and the jordan brand thread, I think people are really under estimating Quinn in his senior season. I feel certain he's going to start along with Tyus for at least most of the season, would be shocked if he doesn't.

Quinn had a rather forgettable junior year but people forget how effective he was the season before that. Unlike last season he played with a major post presence the year before. This may have a lot to do with the difference.

Well he not only had Mason but he also had Ryan Kelly telling everyone what to do...

[Newton_14]

Thanks Newton. Though I may never have the chance to attend one, I know that you are so right that a Duke practice is so much more than a 5 vs 5 scrimmage. Also even in the sets as listed, there is a lot of switching that goes on.

It's just from a flexibility standpoint, Duke only has 4.5 bigs and one of them is ineligible, not counting roles assumed by assistant coaches or others, versus 6.5 wing players on active roster. Usually the walk ons are also on the small side, with Todd Z an exception.

If as the prior poster postulates Semi is ready to displace Amile as starting PF, he will have every opportunity to do so.

Let's hope it is as obvious to Myles Turner on Apr 30 as it is to us that Duke could really use a guy with his skill set to complement what is already in place, someone deemed to be betwen Ryan Kelly and Kevin Durant in skill set being the missing piece.

Barring that, it does seem that from a play the best 5 standpoint as long as at least one is a PG that Tyus, Quinn, Rasheeed, Amile and Jahlil are well ahead of Allen, Matt, Justise, Semi,and MP3, in terms of Duke experience or HS rankings, with Matt and Justise being the two most ready to change that perception.

I would agree with what Newton alludes to, that it becomes somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy that the guys paired on the first unit have much better chemistry than who is left, making it tough to play one's way onto that starting unit if not for the way coach K conducts the practices to compensate for that.

Yeah agree that Turner would really fit nicely on this particular Duke team. Not expecting it, but should it happen, man will that be exciting. Changes the entire dynamic of the team really. They will be good as is, but ceiling goes up significantly if Turner signs on.

[_Gary]

Yeah agree that Turner would really fit nicely on this particular Duke team. Not expecting it, but should it happen, man will that be exciting. Changes the entire dynamic of the team really. They will be good as is, but ceiling goes up significantly if Turner signs on.

Without a doubt (to your last sentence). I know it's probably a long shot, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for us landing Turner. Not just because he's a huge talent, but for the reason you stated - he'd compliment this particular team very, very well. I'll stop short of saying we need him badly, but I think we need what he can bring more than just a little.

[sagegrouse]

Without a doubt (to your last sentence). I know it's probably a long shot, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for us landing Turner. Not just because he's a huge talent, but for the reason you stated - he'd compliment this particular team very, very well. I'll stop short of saying we need him badly, but I think we need what he can bring more than just a little.

Yes, I hear he was reared with excellent manners.

[kAzE]

I think we're going to be fine whether or not Turner comes on board. With him, it's obviously an additional asset, but there's also the downside of likely starting 4 freshman, which is a risky proposition, at least early in the year. With Turner, Jefferson becomes a bench player, and guys like Ojeleye, and Allen will see even less minutes, which slows their development.

Look, Turner coming would be fantastic. We would be the most physically dominant Duke team up front, maybe EVER. Turner is also a better fit with Okafor, with his unusual ability to knock down long range shots. The only drawbacks are that the best leader on the team, Jefferson comes off the bench, and less minutes for guys at the end of the rotation who we will likely need in future seasons. So either way, I think Duke comes out fine.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think we're going to be fine whether or not Turner comes on board. With him, it's obviously an additional asset, but there's also the downside of likely starting 4 freshman, which is a risky proposition, at least early in the year. With Turner, Jefferson becomes a bench player, and guys like Ojeleye, and Allen will see even less minutes, which slows their development.

Look, Turner coming would be fantastic. We would be the most physically dominant Duke team up front, maybe EVER. Turner is also a better fit with Okafor, with his unusual ability to knock down long range shots. The only drawbacks are that the best leader on the team, Jefferson comes off the bench, and less minutes for guys at the end of the rotation who we will likely need in future seasons. So either way, I think Duke comes out fine.

I agree with this. I think Turner would be an asset, but he's not a "game changer" on this current team. If we were to get an MKG-type player, ie a leader at the wing who plays lock-down D and makes everyone better, then I'd argue that that player is a "game changer". Right now, we have AJ, who is a good player and now playing his natural position (Thank God). AJ's D is serviceable, and will only get better.

[jimsumner]

If we were to get an MKG-type player, ie a leader at the wing who plays lock-down D and makes everyone better, then I'd argue that that player is a "game changer". Right now, we have AJ, who is a good player and now playing his natural position (Thank God). AJ's D is serviceable, and will only get better.

Didn't you just describe Winslow?

[Kedsy]

Didn't you just describe Winslow?

If Justise Winslow is even in the same ballpark as Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (who was #3 in the RSCI, by the way), then the entire conversation changes.

[flyingdutchdevil]

If Justise Winslow is even in the same ballpark as Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (who was #3 in the RSCI, by the way), then the entire conversation changes.

Couldn't agree more. Winslow is a really good player. He could be okay, he could be good, he could be great (small chance, as this happens with few players, not to mention freshman). MKG was a fantastic in college. A true leader (as a freshman) who could lock down opponents and score with his athleticism.

[jimsumner]

If Justise Winslow is even in the same ballpark as Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (who was #3 in the RSCI, by the way), then the entire conversation changes.

Didn't suggest he was as good as MKG. Suggested he was similar to what FlyingDutchDevil described as a Duke need. Note that Winslow is considered a consummate complementary player and the best wing defender in the high school class of 2014. And he's on most top 10/15 lists. He might have been the U.S.'s best all-around player at the Nike Hoops Summit.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Didn't suggest he was as good as MKG. Suggested he was similar to what FlyingDutchDevil you described as a Duke need. Note than Winslow generally is considered the best wing defender in the high school class of 2014. And he's on most top 10/15 lists. He might have been the U.S. best all-around player at the Nike Hoops Summit.

Can Winslow be as good as MKG? Of course, there is always a chance. But the smart money is that he'll be a poor man's MKG. And there is nothing wrong with that, because MKG was a stud.

Also, I'm not sure I would call the players "similar". "Similar" implies similar talent level, and that's a tall order (although still a chance!). Would you call Hurley similar to Paulus? Both pass-first point guards, decent 3pt shooters, highly-touted high school players, attending blue chip schools? I wouldn't...

[roywhite]

If Justise Winslow is even in the same ballpark as Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (who was #3 in the RSCI, by the way), then the entire conversation changes.

Didn't suggest he was as good as MKG. Suggested he was similar to what FlyingDutchDevil described as a Duke need. Note that Winslow is considered a consummate complementary player and the best wing defender in the high school class of 2014. And he's on most top 10/15 lists. He might have been the U.S.'s best all-around player at the Nike Hoops Summit.

Can Winslow be as good as MKG? Of course, there is always a chance. But the smart money is that he'll be a poor man's MKG. And there is nothing wrong with that, because MKG was a stud.
Also, I'm not sure I would call the players "similar". "Similar" implies similar talent level, and that's a tall order (although still a chance!). Would you call Hurley similar to Paulus? Both pass-first point guards, decent 3pt shooters, highly-touted high school players, attending blue chip schools? I wouldn't...

Sorry, I don't get the love for Michael Kidd-Gilchrist; yes, he was highly rated and helped Kentucky win a national championship. Whatever talents he had didn't include shooting. He averaged 7 points a game this past season for Charlotte. In his NBA career, he has made *3* 3-pt shots. He's not nearly the best player on his pro team. He wasn't the best player on his college team. Heck, he wasn't the best player on his high school team.

We don't know how Winslow will do this next year, or what his ultimate potential is. But, really, I don't find it out of the question that he can be as good as MKG, maybe better. Winslow has been terrific in FIBA competition. He defends, rebounds, has a good floor game, can score, and is a terrific teammate.

[_Gary]

Where I think MT would be a game-changer, besides his gifted athleticism, is that he can indeed knock down the outside shot. Other than flashes from Semi last year, and a very small sample size from Winslow in a couple of all-star games, I'm not sure we have any other natural forwards that can do that. And the more shooters we can put around Okafor, to space the floor, the better. If that shooter comes with size (like Myles has in spades) then all the better. In fact, if we picked up Myles I think we could get away with playing both Tyus and Quinn at the guard spots and Rasheed at the 3. We'd have enough size up front with Okafor and Turner to offset losing a bit playing three guards. Then we aren't talking about starting four freshman and we have a little more balance in that regard. Not a lot more, but some. Anyhow, that's my logic.

[jimsumner]

Can Winslow be as good as MKG? Of course, there is always a chance. But the smart money is that he'll be a poor man's MKG. And there is nothing wrong with that, because MKG was a stud.

Also, I'm not sure I would call the players "similar". "Similar" implies similar talent level, and that's a tall order (although still a chance!). Would you call Hurley similar to Paulus? Both pass-first point guards, decent 3pt shooters, highly-touted high school players, attending blue chip schools? I wouldn't...

I think Winslow might be better than you think. You indicated that you wanted a lock-down wing defender who made his teammates better. I believe Winslow fits the bill. That's what I mean by similar.

We shall see. But based on what I've seen and what I've heard, I'm pretty darned certain he'll be closer to MKG in overall impact than Paulus was to Hurley. And I guarantee you Winslow won't end his senior season buried on the bench.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Sorry, I don't get the love for Michael Kidd-Gilchrist; yes, he was highly rated and helped Kentucky win a national championship. Whatever talents he had didn't include shooting. He averaged 7 points a game this past season for Charlotte. In his NBA career, he has made *3* 3-pt shots. He's not nearly the best player on his pro team. He wasn't the best player on his college team. Heck, he wasn't the best player on his high school team.

We don't know how Winslow will do this next year, or what his ultimate potential is. But, really, I don't find it out of the question that he can be as good as MKG, maybe better. Winslow has been terrific in FIBA competition. He defends, rebounds, has a good floor game, can score, and is a terrific teammate.

Was Nolan Smith a stud in college? Pretty sure we'd all say yes. Stud in the NBA? Different story. Let's not compare what a player does in college vs the NBA. Completely different animals.

MKG was one of the best players in the country. His defense was on another level. He was a leader (as a freshman no less). He rebounded well (7.4 rpg), shot well (49%), averaged a block and a steal a game, and also averaged 12 points. Again, all as a freshman.

To not give MKG a ton of credit is not doing your homework, IMO. I hate Kentucky, but I love me some MKG.

If Winslow is anything like MKG, he will arguably be an All-American. Also, on this forum, I'm not as high on Winslow as most. I have a lot more faith in M. Jones, a player who is good defensively AND has 1 year of Coach K / Duke than Winslow. I am cured of "Shiny-recruit-itis".

[Kedsy]

Sorry, I don't get the love for Michael Kidd-Gilchrist; yes, he was highly rated and helped Kentucky win a national championship. Whatever talents he had didn't include shooting. He averaged 7 points a game this past season for Charlotte. In his NBA career, he has made *3* 3-pt shots. He's not nearly the best player on his pro team. He wasn't the best player on his college team. Heck, he wasn't the best player on his high school team.

MKG was a game-changing defender who as a freshman was the unquestioned team leader for a national champion. Those (defense and leadership) are perhaps the two biggest unknowns for next year's team, which is why I said the conversation entirely changes if Justise is even in that ballpark.

Also, MKG was first-team All SEC and second-team All American, as a freshman. I don't really care about his pro career or even high school, but I think you're selling the college Kidd-Gilchrist way short.

[roywhite]

Okay, my last comment on Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. IMO, he was a very good player on Kentucky's national championship team. And it was a great team that could do it all, including playing great defense, of which MKG was an important part. But what really made that team special was a great player -- Anthony Davis. He was the player who allowed for the style of perimeter defense Kentucky played, and he was key to the fast breaks on offense because of defensive rebounding and blocked shots.

We can see a pretty clear role for Justise Winslow; be a defensive stopper, be a rebounder, score mostly around the basket, share the ball, and be a good teammate. He, too, will play with a talented center, and will also have a good point guard. Winslow seems like the perfect guy for his role at Duke.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Okay, my last comment on Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. IMO, he was a very good player on Kentucky's national championship team. And it was a great team that could do it all, including playing great defense, of which MKG was an important part. But what really made that team special was a great player -- Anthony Davis. He was the player who allowed for the style of perimeter defense Kentucky played, and he was key to the fast breaks on offense because of defensive rebounding and blocked shots.

We can see a pretty clear role for Justise Winslow; be a defensive stopper, be a rebounder, score mostly around the basket, share the ball, and be a good teammate. He, too, will play with a talented center, and will also have a good point guard. Winslow seems like the perfect guy for his role at Duke.

You're assuming that Winslow is going to come out firing and play mature right out the gate. IMO, that's what made MKG special; he was mature beyond his years (which is why he was such a good leader and teammate).

I'm not so sure. And this isn't a knock against Winslow; it's a knock against freshman in general!

We were so fortunate to have a player like Jabari who played offense like a senior star. That doesn't happen often. And if it does, especially at Duke in the last five years, it's predominantly on offense.

I hope I eat plenty of crow and Winslow is what we all want him to be. And I'll eat it without salt and garlic. I really like Winslow, but I'm not sure he can fill the gap of what we need.

[Bob Green]

MKG was a game-changing defender who as a freshman was the unquestioned team leader for a national champion.

My memory says Kentucky won the national championship when MKG was a sophomore. Am I wrong again?

[flyingdutchdevil]

My memory says Kentucky won the national championship when MKG was a sophomore. Am I wrong again?

He was a freshman. He just didn't play like one.