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  1. #21
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    Feb 2008
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    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by blazindw View Post
    Oh, I know we don't schedule them. Just sorta wishful thinking on my part...
    Back in the day we did. Good times. I know K wants to prepare for tourney play, but it would be nice to head into our first ACC Road game having played 1 or 2 tough games on an opponents home court. Those days are gone I suppose.

  2. #22
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    Feb 2007
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    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    Back in the day we did. Good times. I know K wants to prepare for tourney play, but it would be nice to head into our first ACC Road game having played 1 or 2 tough games on an opponents home court. Those days are gone I suppose.
    Yea, that's what I was getting at. It's cool for the fans, but I see K's main logic: in the NCAA tournament, everything's on a neutral court. Still, having true road games prepares us for tournament settings where the other 7 teams' fans are pull for our opponent.
    Check out the Duke Basketball Roundup!

    2003-2004 HLM
    Duke | Mirecourt | Detroit| The U | USA

  3. #23
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    Back in the day we did. Good times. I know K wants to prepare for tourney play, but it would be nice to head into our first ACC Road game having played 1 or 2 tough games on an opponents home court. Those days are gone I suppose.
    Quote Originally Posted by blazindw View Post
    Yea, that's what I was getting at. It's cool for the fans, but I see K's main logic: in the NCAA tournament, everything's on a neutral court. Still, having true road games prepares us for tournament settings where the other 7 teams' fans are pull for our opponent.
    The lack of "true road games" in November and January is because of economics not competitive challenges. Cameron is small and none of the top teams will accept a home-and-home series. Duke will not play just a road game or play a three-game series with two on the road. The point of detente is to hold such games or series at neutral arenas.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  4. #24
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    Feb 2007
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    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    The lack of "true road games" in November and January is because of economics not competitive challenges. Cameron is small and none of the top teams will accept a home-and-home series. Duke will not play just a road game or play a three-game series with two on the road. The point of detente is to hold such games or series at neutral arenas.
    I don't think it's solely that, but do agree that's a factor. No one wants to play in Cameron but would love for us to come to their house.
    Check out the Duke Basketball Roundup!

    2003-2004 HLM
    Duke | Mirecourt | Detroit| The U | USA

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    NYC

    Games 17-21 will be interesting

    At the risk of a huge jinx (for those that believe in them), it will be interesting to see how the ACC schedules our early conference games. Over the past 5 years, we have won our 17th game between Jan 19-27 and this year our 17th win will be a little more special as it will represent Coach K's 1000th.

    I personally wouldn't be surprised to see a 3 game stretch at Cameron in mid-January through the "quirks" of ACC scheduling to give K a chance to get the milestone in Cameron. Perhaps a Syracuse matchup would make for a memorable 1000th win.

  6. #26
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    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by blazindw View Post
    I don't think it's solely that, but do agree that's a factor. No one wants to play in Cameron but would love for us to come to their house.
    Let me state my views more colorfully: "The evil and grasping ADs at potential opponents do not want a home-and-home with Duke because Cameron is too small and the proceeds too meager. The upstanding Devils will not do a two-for-one as a matter of pride (one home game, two away games)." IMHO (where the H is silent), the opposing ADs would have no problem losing at Cameron if it seated 19,314 instead of 9,314.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Orlando, FL
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Let me state my views more colorfully: "The evil and grasping ADs at potential opponents do not want a home-and-home with Duke because Cameron is too small and the proceeds too meager. The upstanding Devils will not do a two-for-one as a matter of pride (one home game, two away games)." IMHO (where the H is silent), the opposing ADs would have no problem losing at Cameron if it seated 19,314 instead of 9,314.
    Why would opposing ADs (or coaches) come to Cameron if it seated 10,000 more people? They don't get any money off the game at our place. They get $$$ from the game at their place. They don't want to come to Cameron because the home-court advantage is too strong.

    I think the lack of true road games (outside of mandated B10/ACC games) stems somewhat from Coach K wanting to play games in neutral arenas but mostly from other coaches/ADs not wanting to play in Cameron. Duke won't play a road game without a return home game because then Duke loses $$$. So everyone decides to play neutral court games where both schools make money.
    Coach K on Kyle Singler - "What position does he play? ... He plays winner."

    "Duke is never the underdog" - Quinn Cook

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    Back in the day we did. Good times. I know K wants to prepare for tourney play, but it would be nice to head into our first ACC Road game having played 1 or 2 tough games on an opponents home court. Those days are gone I suppose.
    To be fair, back in the day Duke played one or two fewer conference road games each year.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by tbyers11 View Post
    Why would opposing ADs (or coaches) come to Cameron if it seated 10,000 more people? They don't get any money off the game at our place. They get $$$ from the game at their place. They don't want to come to Cameron because the home-court advantage is too strong.

    I think the lack of true road games (outside of mandated B10/ACC games) stems somewhat from Coach K wanting to play games in neutral arenas but mostly from other coaches/ADs not wanting to play in Cameron. Duke won't play a road game without a return home game because then Duke loses $$$. So everyone decides to play neutral court games where both schools make money.
    I believe every deal can be negotiated. It you are right that in most cases, Duke keeps the proceeds, then Duke doesn't want to play in Cameron when it can sell out the Meadowlands. There is a lot more money on the table to be divided, however, the deal is structured.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    I believe every deal can be negotiated. It you are right that in most cases, Duke keeps the proceeds, then Duke doesn't want to play in Cameron when it can sell out the Meadowlands. There is a lot more money on the table to be divided, however, the deal is structured.
    You are digging too deep into the financial aspect of this. I suggest starting a new thread on the economics of scheduling road games vs neutral games vs home games. This is a schedule speculation thread, not the Speculation on the Economic Driving Factor behind the evil, money grabbing AD's arrangment of nonconference games.

    In the meantime, I will continue speculating what actual games will be played (since that is sort of the point of the thread)

  11. #31
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    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by conmanlhughes View Post
    You are digging too deep into the financial aspect of this. I suggest starting a new thread on the economics of scheduling road games vs neutral games vs home games. This is a schedule speculation thread, not the Speculation on the Economic Driving Factor behind the evil, money grabbing AD's arrangment of nonconference games.

    In the meantime, I will continue speculating what actual games will be played (since that is sort of the point of the thread)
    Oh, I am done. I was reacting to what I believe is a canard: the location of November and December games (part of scheduling, you might agree) derives primarily from concerns about competitive advantage. No, the location is mostly about making money.

    Kindly,
    Sage
    'And BTW the toughest competition is the game that most people want to watch'
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    The Northwest
    I see Duke and UConn are scheduled. Does anyone know where I can find a history of their head to head games? Thanks.

  13. #33
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    Feb 2007
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    Seattle, WA
    Quote Originally Posted by gurufrisbee View Post
    I see Duke and UConn are scheduled. Does anyone know where I can find a history of their head to head games? Thanks.
    Check the media guide, which is available on the men's basketball page at GoDuke.com.
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    New Orleans, Louisiana
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    The point of detente is to hold such games or series at neutral arenas.
    I couldn't have said it better myself. But James Bond could...

    foryoureyesonly.jpg

    "That's détente, comrade. You don't have it. I don't have it."

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by gurufrisbee View Post
    I see Duke and UConn are scheduled. Does anyone know where I can find a history of their head to head games? Thanks.
    Duke leads the series 5-4

    Duke won the first four meetings, starting with the 1964 East Regional title game in Reynolds Coliseum in Raleigh. They didn't have seeding in those days and the real test was the semifinals, between No. 3 Duke and No. 7 Villanova. Duke won that one as Jeff Mullins had one of the great games in Duke history. That night, UConn -- coached by former Duke assistant Fred Shabel -- upset Princeton with Bill Bradley in the other semifinal. Duke killed UConn in the title game -- 101-54 (I believe that's the largest margin of victory in a regional title game in NCAA history).

    Duke won the next meeting in December of 1976 in overtime. The third meeting was the 1990 East title game in the Meadowlands -- the game Duke won in OT on Laettner's first famous buzzer-beater. Duke made it 4-0 vs. UConn with a second-round NCAA victory over the Huskies in 1991.

    Then the tide turned. UConn beat Duke in November of 1994 (the 13-18 year) and again in the 1999 national title game in St. Pete. UConn then edged Duke in the second game of the 1999-2000 season in Madison Square Garden. The Huskies then evened the series with that controversial win in the 2004 national semifinals in San Antonio.

    Duke regained the lead in the series with a 68-59 victory in the 2009-10 preseason NIT in Madison Square Garden.

    Two oddities in the series -- every game in the series has been on a neutral court -- they've never played in Durham or Storrs (and won't this time either). The winner of the game has won the national championship in four of the nine meetings (Duke in 1991 and 2010; UConn in 1999 and 2004) ... Duke has reached the Final Four in six of the nine seasons they've played UConn (1964, 1990, 1991, 1999, 2004 and 2010)

  16. #36
    Just learned from Early Entry thread that UNLV's Khem Birch is leaving, so I'll have to recant my friendly disagreement with pfrduke's assessment of the C v. C as "uninspiring." Stanford should be inspiring enough because of the coaches, and UNLV does have some good frosh, but they're rebuilding. Sure hope Duke and Stanford are in opposite brackets.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by tbyers11 View Post
    Why would opposing ADs (or coaches) come to Cameron if it seated 10,000 more people? They don't get any money off the game at our place. They get $$$ from the game at their place. They don't want to come to Cameron because the home-court advantage is too great.
    I don't believe this for a second. Other than UCLA under Steve Lavin, who said something like this, I don't think any coach in the country would have this attitude. If anything, it's the opposite - players from other teams are not psyched out by playing at Cameron, they are excited about it.

    Almost everyone (even Cal) would jump at the chance for a home and home with us. The tv money and exposure more than make up for any difference in their share of the gate as a road team due to Cameron's small size.

    These series don't happen for 2 reasons only: bc Coach K prefers to play the games outside of Cameron in NBA arenas in NY, NJ, Philly or Chi for purposes of NCAA prep, recruiting and to give alums a chance to see the team (which I think is about 89 percent of the reason); and bc the athletic dept makes more money doing it this way than having a road game at Kansas or Kentucky every other year.

    I, too, preferred the 1985-2000 or so approach that had us playing 1 or 2 home and homes every year. Given that all our NCAA games (even in Raleigh and Charlotte!) are basically road games, I think real road games with elite teams would be equal to or better NCAA prep than playing Temple at an NBA arena with 5000 Duke fans out of the 18k there. And, it certainly doesn't seem to be helping us to have our first road game every year be the ACC opener.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Providence, RI
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Duke leads the series 5-4

    Duke won the first four meetings, starting with the 1964 East Regional title game in Reynolds Coliseum in Raleigh. They didn't have seeding in those days and the real test was the semifinals, between No. 3 Duke and No. 7 Villanova. Duke won that one as Jeff Mullins had one of the great games in Duke history. That night, UConn -- coached by former Duke assistant Fred Shabel -- upset Princeton with Bill Bradley in the other semifinal. Duke killed UConn in the title game -- 101-54 (I believe that's the largest margin of victory in a regional title game in NCAA history).

    Duke won the next meeting in December of 1976 in overtime. The third meeting was the 1990 East title game in the Meadowlands -- the game Duke won in OT on Laettner's first famous buzzer-beater. Duke made it 4-0 vs. UConn with a second-round NCAA victory over the Huskies in 1991.

    Then the tide turned. UConn beat Duke in November of 1994 (the 13-18 year) and again in the 1999 national title game in St. Pete. UConn then edged Duke in the second game of the 1999-2000 season in Madison Square Garden. The Huskies then evened the series with that controversial win in the 2004 national semifinals in San Antonio.

    Duke regained the lead in the series with a 68-59 victory in the 2009-10 preseason NIT in Madison Square Garden.

    Two oddities in the series -- every game in the series has been on a neutral court -- they've never played in Durham or Storrs (and won't this time either). The winner of the game has won the national championship in four of the nine meetings (Duke in 1991 and 2010; UConn in 1999 and 2004) ... Duke has reached the Final Four in six of the nine seasons they've played UConn (1964, 1990, 1991, 1999, 2004 and 2010)
    If I remember correctly (I was only 9 so I could be wrong) the 94 game was in Hartford which is essentially a home game for UCONN since they basically play all their marquee home games there

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Quote Originally Posted by jmck214 View Post
    If I remember correctly (I was only 9 so I could be wrong) the 94 game was in Hartford which is essentially a home game for UCONN since they basically play all their marquee home games there
    That game was at the Palace of Auburn Hills as part of the Great Eight tournament (setting up games between the previous years' Elite Eight teams)
    Coach K on Kyle Singler - "What position does he play? ... He plays winner."

    "Duke is never the underdog" - Quinn Cook

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by jmck214 View Post
    If I remember correctly (I was only 9 so I could be wrong) the 94 game was in Hartford which is essentially a home game for UCONN since they basically play all their marquee home games there
    Nope .. you remember incorrectly ... the Nov. 29, 1994 matchup as in Auburn Hills, Mich.

    Sure of the site ... not sure of the event, but I THINK it was part of the old Great Eight event.

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