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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Dillon, Colorado
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedawg View Post
    But the "no shirt, no shoes, no service" is posted...theirs wasn't
    Bzzzzt! It most certainly is posted, in Southwest's Contract of Carriage.

    http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/contract.html

    Item (10)(F)(1) on page 10 states:

    F. Comfort and Safety - Carrier may refuse to transport or remove from the aircraft at any point any passenger in the following categories as may be necessary for the comfort or safety of such passenger or other passengers:

    (1) Persons whose conduct is or has been known to be disorderly, abusive, offensive, threatening, intimidating, or violent, or whose clothing is lewd, obscene, or patently offensive;
    As suburban children we floated at night in swimming pools the temperature of blood. -- Douglas Coupland

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    But "lewd, obscene, or patently offensive" is not an objective standard. I think a court would find SWA to be bound by a standard of reasonableness and consistency in its interpretation, and I bet they would have trouble demonstrating either.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Under current laws, I don't think SWA would lose. But having seen pictures of the woman and her attire....well, a civil suit might be a different story.

    Obviously there is nothing "lewd, obscene" or otherwise in her apparel. The person making the complaint needs major therapy -- unless there's more to the story than we've been told. ??

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Walnut Creek, California
    As a member of Southwest's Rapid Rewards program, I must chime in. I fly that airline far more than any other. It is a prime performer from Oakland International to most points in the West and Southwest. They have recently returned to San Francisco and have also opened in Denver.

    I have never seen anything like what befell the young lady. It seems to me to be a real aberration. I think the flight attendant made a mistake and I won't defend it. On Thursday, I did have a big fat man come into the middle seat. Turned out not to be a problem. I will agree that infants and children can be a risk, but they are usually pre-boarded and are all seated in the first few rows. As for drunks, I've simply never seen it in the 11 years I've been flying them.

    However, those of you who fear flying Southwest because of the seat assignment issue misunderstand how it works. First, Southwest tries to do everything online, including issuing boarding passes. These are issued in three groups of forty passengers, A, B, and C. Boarding passes become available 24 hours before the flight, so if you are a warm body with a brain, you should be able to get into Groups A or B simply by printing it. I even print them in hotel business centers. Each of these will provide an aisle or a window seat. If you are a canny A, you can get one of the two seats just back of the emergency exit row, where there is no seat in front of you, so stretching out is easy.

    There is one mildly annoying thing: They do not transfer bags to other airlines and vice-versa (except for their sister, ATA). I haven't flown to locations where that was a problem, but it could happen.

    If you are a C, you still have a running shot at an open aisle or window, but your chances are much less.

    Furthermore, they have an easy baggage check program. At the counter machine, just punch in your confirmation code (which you were smart enough to have printed or have e-mailed you, so you wouldn't forget it), tell the machine how many pieces of luggage you are checking and Voila!, your tags are printed, your ID checked by the attendant and off you go to the gate. I've never lost a bag with them, though once my daughter lost one during the Christmas period. It was delivered within 3 hours.

    This is very easy folks, and the fares are great. Even the cross country stuff has improved. There are now non-stops from coast to coast. All 737s with good leg room, unlike that United squeeze.

    The horror stories cited above are probably from the distant past.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles

    I agree

    I must agree with JimK3. I fly Southwest very often. They are on time, baggage arrives within minutes, etc. etc. etc. It's a well run airline -- with more positives than negatives.

    I don't know what 'they' (or the flight attendant) were thinking. I have NEVER had a problem with SWA, EVER. Although I don't agree with this woman being the source of problems, but I regret the angst (etc.) caused to SWA.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    I am shocked,... shocked that this story actually made it to the national level. Without a picture of Kellie in a short skirt the story goes absolutely nowhere since it's really just an opportunity for a bit of gratuitous ogling. I must say I'm disgusted by that. I become more disgusted every time I watch the video, twelve so far.

    I believe Southwest was stupid though legally in the clear.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Parts Unknown
    Quote Originally Posted by hurleyfor3 View Post
    Bzzzzt! It most certainly is posted, in Southwest's Contract of Carriage.

    http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/contract.html

    Item (10)(F)(1) on page 10 states:

    F. Comfort and Safety - Carrier may refuse to transport or remove from the aircraft at any point any passenger in the following categories as may be necessary for the comfort or safety of such passenger or other passengers:

    (1) Persons whose conduct is or has been known to be disorderly, abusive, offensive, threatening, intimidating, or violent, or whose clothing is lewd, obscene, or patently offensive;
    Sorry...that is not "posted". that is fine print to CYA. posted is on the ticket, posted is in plain sight as you enter the terminal or the gates. To call that "posted" is bureaucratical nonsense.

    Anyway her attire was neither "lewd, obscene, or patently offensive" if she goes to court they will be forced to define those terms.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    The situation is dumb for SW and the woman. It is an anomaly for the airline (I've never had a problem), but I bet the woman was showing a lot more skin than she is showing in the relatively demure photo. Reminds me a bit of the OJ glove scenario.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Walnut Creek, California
    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    ... I bet the woman was showing a lot more skin than she is showing in the relatively demure photo.
    It's certainly possible that she revealed more than she intended, particularly if she is short and attempted to put something in the overhead bins. That kind of stretch-up puts stress on clothing tuck-ins and may have momentarily hiked her skirt higher than she intended.

    But so what? It's not as if she were bare. She'd just re-adjust and that would be the end of it. The blanket is an overreaction.

    +++++++++++++

    Oooh! Grant Hill.
    Last edited by Jim3k; 09-09-2007 at 08:39 PM. Reason: Grant Hill status

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC

    for what it's worth

    I love Southwest and try my best to use them wherever I go. Except for one daily Delta flight, they are the only airline to fly directly from RDU to Tampa. And they not only get you to your destination on time, they often get you there EARLY. Now if they would just start flying form RDU to NYC . . .

  11. #31
    I've never understood SW billing itself as a discount airline. I usually buy my seats at least two weeks out. In the past year I've flow RDU to Jackson MS, Albuquerque NM, Bismarck ND, Oklahoma City OK, Kansas City MO, Wichita KS, Columbus OH, Savannah Ga, Billings MT, Pittsburgh PA, Hartford CT, Boston MA, and Austin TX. I always do a web search (Travelocity, Kayak, or Sidestep) then check SW (since they don't participate. Not once in 18 trips has SW been cheaper. Perhpas it is because I don't buy my tickets at the last minute or due to the places I travel or that RDU is not a SW hub, but not once in 18 trips have they beaten the price of AA, Delta, NW, or United.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    My experience has been that SW is consistently cheaper if you aren't spending a Saturday night. I neither love them nor hate them - the price is right, and they make it convenient. With few exceptions, I find airlines pretty interchangeable. But SW's 20-minute turnaround policy makes for some very crowded waiting areas in their hubs, so the pre-boarding experience can be very unrelaxing.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Quote Originally Posted by mapei View Post
    My experience has been that SW is consistently cheaper if you aren't spending a Saturday night. I neither love them nor hate them - the price is right, and they make it convenient. With few exceptions, I find airlines pretty interchangeable. But SW's 20-minute turnaround policy makes for some very crowded waiting areas in their hubs, so the pre-boarding experience can be very unrelaxing.
    I used to feel that way, until AIRTRAN SCREWED ME.

    Request to the boards -- Airtran is the devil. Avoid them. For me. Thanks.


    Oh, and to avoid the thread hijack: I can see how the young lady may have caused some disruptions with her outfit, but I hardly think she deserved the public humiliation. Clearly, someone was on a power trip. I do wonder what is the other side of the story.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    ← Bay / Valley ↓
    Quote Originally Posted by allenmurray View Post
    I've never understood SW billing itself as a discount airline. I usually buy my seats at least two weeks out. In the past year I've flow RDU to Jackson MS, Albuquerque NM, Bismarck ND, Oklahoma City OK, Kansas City MO, Wichita KS, Columbus OH, Savannah Ga, Billings MT, Pittsburgh PA, Hartford CT, Boston MA, and Austin TX. I always do a web search (Travelocity, Kayak, or Sidestep) then check SW (since they don't participate. Not once in 18 trips has SW been cheaper. Perhpas it is because I don't buy my tickets at the last minute or due to the places I travel or that RDU is not a SW hub, but not once in 18 trips have they beaten the price of AA, Delta, NW, or United.
    From my experience, SW is only cheaper if you fly places where they have direct flights. Actually, not even my experience, since I almost never fly SW, but the guy who bought my car last year bought a one-way ticket from Nashville to Durham for about $50, 2 days before the travel date.

    To make it thread-relevant, yeah seems like a case of power trip, though it would be interesting to hear what their side of the story is (not likely to hear it though)

  15. #35

    I take it all back, Southwest rocks

    I'm trying to fly back from Las Vegas, via DFW, but my flight was canceled due to weather in Dallas. The best American could do for me was an 11PM red eye to Miami and then an early flight to Boston tomorrow morning. Basically, hell.

    Fortunately, SW came through with a flight direct to Manchester, NH that will get me close to home over 2 hours earlier than my American flight would have left Las Vegas. Thanks SW!

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    I hate connecting flights (on any airline) and avoid them like the plague. That's pretty easy for me since my home base is a large city and so are the places I tend to travel to.

    Good work on finding the better alternative, bbreen.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, North Carolina

    I'm thinking it's a thong . . . or commando.

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilAlumna View Post
    I do wonder what is the other side of the story.
    That's a short skirt. Thong underwear or no underwear might just be the problem. That's been my theory, anyway, because otherwise, I can't see any problem.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by mapei View Post
    I hate connecting flights (on any airline) and avoid them like the plague. That's pretty easy for me since my home base is a large city and so are the places I tend to travel to.

    Good work on finding the better alternative, bbreen.
    Yeah, I hate connections, but AA doesn't go direct to LAS, and I need the miles so I can re-up Platinum. That's how I talked myself into this situation.

    I'm group B on this SW flight, so I'm lined up already because I want a good seat. Reminds me why I avoid SW, but I'm reminding myself to be grateful that they will get me home tonight.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by mapei View Post
    I hate connecting flights (on any airline) and avoid them like the plague. That's pretty easy for me since my home base is a large city and so are the places I tend to travel to.
    As long as you understand that's a luxury.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Whoís gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Not a luxury but a choice? It certainly is a benefit!

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