Higher Ed

[DevilAlumna]

There are days (today being one of them) where I want to get back out of corporate america and into academia again. I loved my course of learning at business school, and have fantasies of getting a Ph.D. in something around organizational structure and innovation. I don't think I'd want to become a professor though (don't have the competitive drive to publish or perish.)

Would those of you who are professional academics (or those who considered and rejected the path) please talk some sense into me? Would I be crazy if I left a well-paying, otherwise-infrequently-rewarding professional field and go back for a doctoral degree that would probably send me back to this field? (or is being a b-school professor a different beast entirely?)

[Cavlaw]

Northwestern's Kellog School of Managementment offers a PhD or somesuch in organizational structures, and apparently places people back into corporate America where they do internal consulting-style jobs, setting up divisions in the most efficient manner, things like that. They also go off to teach this sort of thing to budding management-types.

[wilson]

I'm a budding career academic, and I have to say that I understand most people's misgivings about the lifestyle. I'll never be rich, and there is that whole publish-or-perish thing, not to mention a higher than normal level of office politics in a lot of places.
But on the other hand, the lifestyle has lots of perks, too. First, there's the schedule. Lots of people think we show up to work about fifteen hours a week and then sit around with our thumbs up our butts, but that is untrue. We work well in excess of forty hours most weeks, but in this case, work consists of reading and writing, which can be done pretty much anytime, anywhere, thus affording us a significant degree of flexibility. Also, I would venture to say that most academics don't sweat publish-or-perish an inordinate amount. Part of why we've chosen to do what we do is that we genuinely enjoy the craft of research and the act of creating a new piece of scholarship, not to mention immersion in the literature of our chosen field. Personally, I also love the act of educating. To be in the classroom with young, excited (well, at least some of them) learners is a singular joy. My eventual jobs will essentially pay me to spend roughly equal amounts of time learning and teaching, which often leads me to wonder, "What's the catch?"
As for the financial realities, as I said, I'll never be rich, and I'll certainly pay my dues. But I look at older colleagues with children and such, and they all tend to live in reasonably nice houses and lead reasonably comfortable lives. Above all, I think it's a collection of people who have chosen to do something because they really love it. Since embarking on my (admittedly still young) academic career, I have yet to have a day where I woke up and "just wasn't feeling it" (or however you care to phrase it). When you personally feel that way and you interact professionally with a bunch of other people who feel similarly, it's a great environment to be in.
All of this in part reflects my belief that education today (and indeed in society at large) places too much emphasis on tasks and marketability, and not enough on discernment. It is of course important for students to acquire the abilities necessary to be productive and successful in the professional world, but too often, educators (or perhaps more often, parents) push young people to begin acquiring a particular skill set before the student has really decided whether that's actually what they want to do. People who do things they don't believe in are frequently maladjusted, and as a result, less productive than they could otherwise be.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that if you really feel like you love this line of study enough to immerse yourself in it that fully, then go for it. But really be sure that it's what you want, and that you're not "looking for love in all the wrong places," so to speak.

[colchar]

Would I be crazy if I left a well-paying, otherwise-infrequently-rewarding professional field and go back for a doctoral degree that would probably send me back to this field?

From the perspective of somebody who has spent the last year of his life preparing for his PhD comprehensive exams (I passed them earlier today and am now well on my way to getting ridiculously drunk):

It is incredibly rewarding but can also be one of the most trying experiences of your life. You have to figure out how bad you want to do it and I am not sure being frustrated at work is the right reason because believe me, you will be frustrated in academia too.

[-jk]

Congrats!

-jk

[Lavabe]

I passed them earlier today and am now well on my way to getting ridiculously drunk

CONGRATULATIONS! You are now a doctoral candidate! Welcome to the world of ABD.

Cheers,
Lavabe

[DevilAlumna]

From the perspective of somebody who has spent the last year of his life preparing for his PhD comprehensive exams (I passed them earlier today and am now well on my way to getting ridiculously drunk):

Hey, outstanding!! Congratulations! I'll have a Labatt's in your honor.

[devilmacdawg]

I'm on staff, not faculty, at a University. I make literally half of what I should make in the 'real world.' My office is a mile from my house, I work 35-40 hours per week, my child goes to the on-campus daycare, which is subsidized by the University, so it's ridiculously cheap. My husband, a graduate student at said university, gets a discount on his tuition. I have to deal with faculty, I do some interacting with students, and I have to manage the administration (a serious pain). But it's a rewarding job with a lot of intangible perks, and I didn't have to go back for a PhD (though I have multiple graduate degrees as do most of my colleagues). It's a matter of what you want out of life - if you're driven by the prestige, then being a staff person in an academic institution is not for you. If you're driven by paycheck, same thing. I have one child with another due in 7 weeks, and my husband is in a demanding graduate program that will put him into a demanding career, so I need to be able to take time to see to the kids, and this lifestyle works for me.

[wilson]

From the perspective of somebody who has spent the last year of his life preparing for his PhD comprehensive exams (I passed them earlier today and am now well on my way to getting ridiculously drunk)

Congrats, indeed! Celebrate lots. You certainly deserve it.

[4decadedukie]

I am not an academic and never – due to the vicissitudes of life – had the opportunity to become one; however, I have worked very closely with senior Duke faculty and administrators for the last dozen years on several leadership boards, especially at Fuqua. Therefore, while I do not meet your specific input-criteria, I will respectfully offer a couple of thoughts.
1. In the near-term, a PhD program at a graduate business school like Fuqua may not be as financially stressing as you might fear, since – at least at Duke, and I would presume our scholastic cohorts, as well – ALL PhD students receive full tuition/fee waivers plus a stipend.
2. Professors in top Business Schools do well fiscally, with broad opportunities for consulting that frequently provide substantially greater compensation than their academic salaries (at Duke, “B School” and Medical professors are the most highly compensated cadres).
3. The “academic rat race” – publish or perish, et al – is a critical fact-of-life and the major, frequently articulated complaint of senior faculty.
4. The first-tier B Schools provide a third conduit for performance-excellence: MBA/PhD teaching, research/publishing, AND Executive Education (which is a significant “cash cow” for the schools).

I suggest you meet with Blair Sheppard (Fuqua’s new Dean) and with Doug Breeden (Fuqua’s just-replaced Dean and a long-term finance “superstar”) when you next visit Durham, to discuss this opportunity. I know they would be happy to do so, and I would be pleased to facilitate those arrangements.

[bluebutton]

because I tell them to avoid grad school at all costs until they think they cannot possibly live the life they want without it. (My orals are Oct 5--my first go around at the orals on June 1 got flushed down the drain due to a paperwork technicality thing)

It's hard to tell from your situation whether a PhD would be a good decision. A couple things to consider:
1) It is grueling in a life sucking way--things like my orals SNAFU happen, offhanded comments by profs resulting in another 3 months of work when you thought the project was coming to a close, a fat bout with clinical depression, the usual...

2) Are you ready to become a child again?--my father, who's a prof, likes to say that grad school is an extended childhood. I used to laugh. Sounds like you have a respected career. With a return to grad school, you will be socialized into another world on a path not that different from raising a child. This will be at odds with your own perceptions of self (unless you normally see yourself as a child needing direction and scolding)

3) You might get to do what you love to do--and that's what keeps me in the game. I get to do really cool stuff that I believe matters (even if 19th C. Russian person reference doesn't matter to a lot of people, that research is informing my other research on dealing with and assessing dementia)

So as I said, my schtick with grad school decisions is that if you can think of anything else in the world that would satisfy you, do that. (Could you change jobs or companies?) But if academia is the only way to scratch your itch--welcome to the party.

Colchar--You should be way past being able to read this and enjoying the ABD life--hope to join you in 4 weeks! I hear there are "Don't ask me about my dissertation" t-shirts! Congrats.

[mapei]

I avoided this thread for days because I had limited time and assumed it was just some sort of EJ/Jason cultural joke about someone named Ed!

I say go for it, because I wish I could! Easy to say from a distance, of course. Since I work at a nonprofit I long ago made peace with the truth (for me) that money isn't everything. So I wouldn't let that part stop me. But that's a very personal choice.

[colchar]

Thanks to everyone for the congrats (easier to thank everyone at once than to reply to each post individually).

I hope to start enjoying ABD life soon.

I woke up this morning with a nasty hangover and a feeling of impending dread. I was trying to think of all the things I had to do and how little time I had in which to accomplish them. I was also thinking that, no matter how lousy I was feeling, my entire academic career was resting upon my ability to get as much done today (and each day) as humanly possible even when there weren't enough hours in the day because I was soon to be facing 8 hours worth of exams that would determine whether I would be allowed to continue in the program. Then I started to worry about all of the stuff I had studied but simply couldn't remember (you know how it is...you know everything the second you look at your notes and there is no point in reading them any more because you can recite them from memory but, 20 minutes after looking at them, you have forgotten a lot of it and are confusing the remainder). The feeling of dread was getting stronger and a mild sense of panic was beginning to creep in when I realized that I didn't have to worry about any of that any longer!! I'm done. The hardest year of my life is over. They can never make me read another book, write another essay (except for the dissertation but that is completely different), or take another exam. For the first time in a year I can honestly say that I have nothing to do. Nothing at all. So I rolled over and went back to sleep for a couple of hours. What a great feeling (although it didn't help the hangover much).

When I finished my MA thesis it took about two weeks before the reality set in that I was free and had nothing to do. Until then I kept waking up with the feelings described above. I wonder how long it is going to take for those to go away this time?

[colchar]

Colchar--You should be way past being able to read this and enjoying the ABD life--hope to join you in 4 weeks! I hear there are "Don't ask me about my dissertation" t-shirts! Congrats.

Thanks.

I've heard about those shirts too. Do you ever read PhD Comics? They are quite funny for people in our situation.

Good luck on the orals. I'm sure you'll be fine (if I passed mine you can definitely pass yours).

[4decadedukie]

Sincere congratulations . . . and I hope your post-celebratory headache isn't too awful.

[TillyGalore]

I woke up this morning with a nasty hangover and a feeling of impending dread.

Congrats!!

As for the hangover, my aunt, who used to be a bartender, told me the cure for a hangover was chocolate milk and aspirin. I've never tried that remedy as she told me about it long after my adult beverage consuming to the point of illness days were over.

Again, congratulations!!

[colchar]

As for the hangover, my aunt, who used to be a bartender, told me the cure for a hangover was chocolate milk and aspirin. I've never tried that remedy as she told me about it long after my adult beverage consuming to the point of illness days were over.

There is a Scottish pop called Irn Bru that is a hangover cure (quinine is one of the ingredients). If you can get the real Scottish stuff (and I can get it rather easily) as opposed to the stuff made in North America then it works great for hangovers. I just don't have any. But I'm on my way out shortly and will be stopping to pick some up. I'll be fine in a couple of hours.

[Lavabe]

Colchar,
As good as you feel having walked into ABD life, the best day of your career will be the day you defend your diss. Enjoy that day!

But before you do that, have a moderate amount of fun with EarlJam.
Cheers,
Lavabe

[wilson]

There is a Scottish pop called Irn Bru that is a hangover cure (quinine is one of the ingredients).

Alka-Seltzer is hangover magic too. Learned that from a fraternity brother at Duke (and might be re-learning it in 9 hours or so).

[colchar]

Colchar,
As good as you feel having walked into ABD life, the best day of your career will be the day you defend your diss. Enjoy that day!

I haven't even begun to dream about that yet. I decided I didn't like my dissertation topic enough to spend the next 2-3 years working on it so I have to come up with a new one before I can start dreaming about finishing the darned thing.

Anyone got any suggestions for a dissertation topic? I'm in History with minor fields in modern Europe and modern Britain and a major field in War & Society. I am determined to write on a British topic but haven't come up with a new one yet (not that I've been trying as I've been too preparing for comps).

For me, the dissertation will be much easier than the comps (they were a nightmare) if only I can come up with a topic . . .