Harold Ramis (1944-2014)

[JasonEvans]

With 80s American comedies they basically broke down to: Harold Ramis (and Harold Ramis ripoffs), John Hughes (and John Hughes ripoffs), and Eddie Murphy (and Eddie Murphy ripoffs).

You forgot Tom Hanks - Big and Splash are two of the best comedies of the decade, for sure. Bachelor Party ain't that far behind those and I actually laughed a good bit at Turner and Hooch.

-Jason "by the 90s, Hanks was moving toward becoming a serious actor and was on a ridiculous hotstreak of great, great movies" Evans

[77devil]

What else is in that 80s pantheon of amazing, culture-defining comedies?

The Princess Bride
Ferris Bueller
16 Candles
Fast Times at Ridgemont High
Big
Trading Places
Revenge of the Nerds
Weird Science
Blues Brothers
Beverly Hills Cop (is this a comedy or more of an action movie?)
Spinal Tap
Splash
Crocodile Dundee
A Fish Called Wanda

I am probably missing a few but how many of those are still quoted, relevant, and stood the test of time as well as Vacation, Caddyshack, Ghostbusters, Animal House, and Groundhog Day? Certainly Princess Bride, Spinal Tap, Big, Blues Brothers, and Ferris Beuller are still quite relevant. I'd put Trading Places, Wanda, and Beverly Hills Cop in the next tier.

Anyway, just more fodder for the "Harold Ramis was a true timeless genius" file.

-Jason "I also suspect that this spin off conversation will keep this thread -- and its ongoing love/praise of Ramis' work -- alive for a bit longer" Evans

I have a special fondness for Trading Places but agree that it doesn't quite measure up to the classics. I was in grad school in Philly when the movie was made. Mrs. 77devil worked in the Duke and Duke building at the time, and one of my grad school buddies and I still call each other Randolph and Mortimer, and our ritualistic golf bet is always one dollar.

By the way, if anyone ever runs into SilkyJ(http://forums.dukebasketballreport.c...hp?1755-SilkyJ), get him to recite Bill Murray's looper story from Caddyshack. Classic

[davekay1971]

You forgot Tom Hanks - Big and Splash are two of the best comedies of the decade, for sure. Bachelor Party ain't that far behind those and I actually laughed a good bit at Turner and Hooch.

-Jason "by the 90s, Hanks was moving toward becoming a serious actor and was on a ridiculous hotstreak of great, great movies" Evans

Didn't forget him, but probably reflected my personal tastes more than anything. Hanks's comedies never did it for me. His work in Philadelphia, Forrest Gump, Apollo 13, Saving Private Ryan, and CastAway, however, make him one of America's great actors.

[mr. synellinden]

What else is in that 80s pantheon of amazing, culture-defining comedies?

The Princess Bride
Ferris Bueller
16 Candles
Fast Times at Ridgemont High
Big
Trading Places
Revenge of the Nerds
Weird Science
Blues Brothers
Beverly Hills Cop (is this a comedy or more of an action movie?)
Spinal Tap
Splash
Crocodile Dundee
A Fish Called Wanda

I am probably missing a few but how many of those are still quoted, relevant, and stood the test of time as well as Vacation, Caddyshack, Ghostbusters, Animal House, and Groundhog Day? Certainly Princess Bride, Spinal Tap, Big, Blues Brothers, and Ferris Beuller are still quite relevant. I'd put Trading Places, Wanda, and Beverly Hills Cop in the next tier.

Anyway, just more fodder for the "Harold Ramis was a true timeless genius" file.

-Jason "I also suspect that this spin off conversation will keep this thread -- and its ongoing love/praise of Ramis' work -- alive for a bit longer" Evans

Any list that does not include Midnight Run, 48 Hours and Fletch cannot be taken seriously. I'd even say those are three that would be highly considered for the Mt. Rushmore of 80s comedies.

I know people talk about Groundhog Day as being on a different level from most of the other SNL-type/teen (John Hughes-ish) comedies because of the overall quality and spirituality of the film, but I think that is more of a retroactive analysis of the movie. How many people really appreciated that meaning of life/religious element when you first watched it?

I really think Midnight Run is the best comedy of my lifetime - and is a better movie than Groundhog Day. Its quote-ability and rewatch-ability are unsurpassed. Fletch I put in the same category as Stripes, Caddyshack, Vacation, and Animal House as half a notch below Midnight Run. And if we're really talking about 80s comedies, you probably have to start with Diner, which may be more of the progenitor of the comedies of the last two decades than Animal House. In fact, there was a great Vanity Fair story on Diner two years ago.

One other movie that should be on the list and has been way underrated in my opinion when people talk about great 80s comedies is The Flamingo Kid.

[mr. synellinden]

Risky Business also should be on the list. I'm sure there are many others that will come to mind the more I think about it.

[Atlanta Duke]

Someone in the White House speechwriters' office is a Harold Ramis (or at least Caddyshack) fan

In his tribute to the late film director Harold Ramis, President Obama managed to work in a sly reference to one of Ramis' most popular works: Caddyshack.

[President] Obama said in a written statement Tuesday that his thoughts and prayers are with the Ramis family, and "all those who loved him, who quote his work with abandon, and who hope that he received total consciousness."..

Not coincidentally, "total consciousness" is a quote uttered by Carl Spackler ... Spackler claims he once caddied for the Dalai Lama -- "big hitter, the Lama" -- but the religious leader failed to tip him.

"He says, 'oh, uh, there won't be any money -- but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness,'" Spackler says, adding (famously): "So I got that goin' for me, which is nice."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/theova...urray/5837205/

[davekay1971]

Someone in the White House speechwriters' office is a Harold Ramis (or at least Caddyshack) fan

In his tribute to the late film director Harold Ramis, President Obama managed to work in a sly reference to one of Ramis' most popular works: Caddyshack.

[President] Obama said in a written statement Tuesday that his thoughts and prayers are with the Ramis family, and "all those who loved him, who quote his work with abandon, and who hope that he received total consciousness."..

Not coincidentally, "total consciousness" is a quote uttered by Carl Spackler ... Spackler claims he once caddied for the Dalai Lama -- "big hitter, the Lama" -- but the religious leader failed to tip him.

"He says, 'oh, uh, there won't be any money -- but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness,'" Spackler says, adding (famously): "So I got that goin' for me, which is nice."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/theova...urray/5837205/

I might give the POTUS credit for being able to come up with that one on his own off the cuff. Obama's the right age to have enjoyed Caddyshack in the theater!

[JasonEvans]

Risky Business and 48 Hours were almost on my list, but I knocked each of them off for not being a "pure comedy" the way most of the other films are. Even though it has some very, very funny parts, Risky Business is a romance/teen angst/drama with comedy added in. 48 Hours is a very violent cop drama with some comedy mixed in to lighten the tone.

I suppose one could parse a lot of the films on my list - or on any list - in the way I just did. I mean, how can I call Beverly Hills Cop a comedy but not 48 Hours? They are pretty darn similar in tone.

As for Midnight Run, I really enjoyed it and consider it one of Charles Grodin's best roles. It has some very funny parts, for sure. But it is different from all the others mentioned in that it has not stood the test of time. The other films we are talking about are still being watched today. They still show up on cable and are staples of many DVD libraries. I would imagine that most folks in the late teens or 20s have seen them, even though people in that age group were not even born when these films came out. Midnight Run... I haven't heard about or thought about that movie in 20 years.

-Jason "Fletch is a real big omission on my part. I knew I was leaving some big ones out... that might be my worst omission" Evans

[mr. synellinden]

Risky Business and 48 Hours were almost on my list, but I knocked each of them off for not being a "pure comedy" the way most of the other films are. Even though it has some very, very funny parts, Risky Business is a romance/teen angst/drama with comedy added in. 48 Hours is a very violent cop drama with some comedy mixed in to lighten the tone.

I suppose one could parse a lot of the films on my list - or on any list - in the way I just did. I mean, how can I call Beverly Hills Cop a comedy but not 48 Hours? They are pretty darn similar in tone.

As for Midnight Run, I really enjoyed it and consider it one of Charles Grodin's best roles. It has some very funny parts, for sure. But it is different from all the others mentioned in that it has not stood the test of time. The other films we are talking about are still being watched today. They still show up on cable and are staples of many DVD libraries. I would imagine that most folks in the late teens or 20s have seen them, even though people in that age group were not even born when these films came out. Midnight Run... I haven't heard about or thought about that movie in 20 years.

-Jason "Fletch is a real big omission on my part. I knew I was leaving some big ones out... that might be my worst omission" Evans

This post really surprised me. I agree with the qualifications on Risky Business and 48 Hours - even though they are part of the group of 80s comedy-ish movies that are frequently quoted by people who grew up in the 80s.

But I am shocked by your feelings about Midnight Run. I have great respect for your reviews and opinions of movies - and often look forward to them with great anticipation, but I could not disagree more with your assessment of Midnight Run. I think it has stood the test of time far better than any of the other movies listed in this thread, and to repeat what I said before, I really believe it is the best comedy of my lifetime, and the one movie I would watch if I had one movie to watch. Midnight Run does show up relatively often on cable, and when it's on I watch it without fail. I sometimes make a point to watch the DVD even though I've seen it probably 75 times. You may not have heard or thought about it in 20 years, but I think that would put you in the very small minority of people who are old enough to appreciate this thread and have seen most of these movies in the theater. Yes, there may be many teenagers and people in their 20s who haven't seen or heard of Midnight Run, but those same people have not heard of Stripes or Weird Science or Vacation or several other of what we'd consider the "Classics".

I hate to rely on others to support my point of view as somehow proof that I'm right about this, however, I encourage you to read this two relatively recent blog posts on the movie - one by Alan Sepinwall, a critic I highly respect who says Midnight Run is his favorite movie ever, and the other by Bill Simmons - I'm not sure how much I respect him, but I agree with his assessment of Midnight Run. He calls it a "timeless classic" and "the least dated 80s movie".

[Edouble]

As for Midnight Run, I really enjoyed it and consider it one of Charles Grodin's best roles. It has some very funny parts, for sure. But it is different from all the others mentioned in that it has not stood the test of time. The other films we are talking about are still being watched today. They still show up on cable and are staples of many DVD libraries. I would imagine that most folks in the late teens or 20s have seen them, even though people in that age group were not even born when these films came out. Midnight Run... I haven't heard about or thought about that movie in 20 years.

-Jason "Fletch is a real big omission on my part. I knew I was leaving some big ones out... that might be my worst omission" Evans

From one of the top five hip hop albums of all time, Midnight Marauders, which has never found its way out of my rotation:

"Hits the local bodega to woof down a hero
Son is on a 'Midnight Run' like De Niro"

-Qtip

So I think about that movie quite often.

[tommy]

-Jason "Fletch is a real big omission on my part. I knew I was leaving some big ones out... that might be my worst omission" Evans

[JasonEvans]

I want to be clear, I really liked Midnight Run. It is a very funny comedy movie. But, I have not seen it nor heard anyone talk about it decades. Your citing of critical praise is nice and I do not disagree with those critics, but from the standpoint of continued cultural relevance to today, I still think it comes up short.

I wasted some time this morning and did some research. I picked 10 of the films we have been talking about in this discussion and compared them to Midnight Run in two interesting metrics. First, I looked at how many people have rated/voted for them on IMDB. I consider this significant because it measures how much people in the current internet age have made their opinion about the film known. I also looked at Amazon.com's DVD sales ranking for each film. I don't know exactly how the sales rankings fully work on Amazon or when they start throwing out old data and the such, but I think this would be another good measure of how much people in the present are thinking about (and watching) these films.

Here is the data:

Groundhog Day - 305,290 IMDB votes, ranked #478 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions, so hard to rank)
Princess Bride - 220,492 IMDB votes, ranked #917 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions)
Ghostbusters - 191,093 IMDB votes, ranked #1,091 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions)
Big - 114,211 IMDB votes, ranked #5,625 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions)
Beverly Hills Cop - 94,641 IMDB votes, ranked #4,725 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions)
Animal House - 74,039 IMDB votes, ranked #4,775 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions)
Fast Times - 56,299 IMDB votes, ranked #4,767 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions)
Vacation - 49,314 IMDB votes, ranked #8,275 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions)
Weird Science - 45,187 IMDB votes, ranked #5,606 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions)
Midnight Run - 44,153 IMDB votes, ranked #12,324 in Amazon DVD sales (ONLY EDITION!!!)
Stripes - 34,920 IMDB votes, ranked #1,806 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions)

As you will note, Midnight Run is near the bottom, but not embarrassingly so, in IMDB ranking. In that metric, it compares favorably with some of the movies on the list, though it gets trounced by many of them. However, its numbers certainly do not reflect a film that you would seem to feel is among the most culturally relevant and lasting of 1980s-era comedies.

Even more telling, it is a distant last in DVD sales. And, it is worth noting that it is the only film on the list unavailable on BluRay. What's more, it is the only DVD that has not seen multiple editions released to satisfy public demand. All the others have unrated/anniversary/collectors/etc editions out there. Some of them get a new DVD release every few years. Midnight Run was released on DVD in 1998, re-released with no changes in 2003, and that is it. All four Midnight Run movies (three made-for-TV sequels were made without either Grodin or Deniro involved) were released on DVD in 2011, but that set sold very poorly. The original was released on HD-DVD in 2007 but never on BluRay. There just isn't enough demand for Universal to bother to release it again or upgrade it to the BluRay format. That is very telling!

Again, I am not trying to put down the quality of the film. I really enjoyed Midnight Run. I imagine that if I ever saw it pop up on my cable listings, I would try to record it for my sons (14 and 17) to watch (as I have done with every single other film mentioned in this thread). But, it just isn't part of the continued movie landscape the way the other films we are talking about are.

-Jason "some of this may stem from the fact that it was not a big boxoffice hit, so fewer people were aware of it in 1988 to carry its legacy forward" Evans

[nocilla]

But I am shocked by your feelings about Midnight Run. I have great respect for your reviews and opinions of movies - and often look forward to them with great anticipation, but I could not disagree more with your assessment of Midnight Run.

In Jason's defense, and probably proving his point, I had never heard of Midnight Run. I have seen all the movies on his original list except 16 candles and Spinal Tap. I am a 90's kid so all of them came out before I was old enough to watch them. That doesn't mean it isn't a great movie, but I have never seen it so I don't know.

Some others that I like are Naked Gun, Spaceballs, Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, Planes Trains & Automobiles, and Funny Farm.

[snowdenscold]

I want to be clear, I really liked Midnight Run. It is a very funny comedy movie. But, I have not seen it nor heard anyone talk about it decades. Your citing of critical praise is nice and I do not disagree with those critics, but from the standpoint of continued cultural relevance to today, I still think it comes up short.
....
Here is the data:

Groundhog Day - 305,290 IMDB votes, ranked #478 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions, so hard to rank)
Princess Bride - 220,492 IMDB votes, ranked #917 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions)
Ghostbusters - 191,093 IMDB votes, ranked #1,091 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions)
Big - 114,211 IMDB votes, ranked #5,625 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions)
Beverly Hills Cop - 94,641 IMDB votes, ranked #4,725 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions)
Animal House - 74,039 IMDB votes, ranked #4,775 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions)
Fast Times - 56,299 IMDB votes, ranked #4,767 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions)
Vacation - 49,314 IMDB votes, ranked #8,275 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions)
Weird Science - 45,187 IMDB votes, ranked #5,606 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions)
Midnight Run - 44,153 IMDB votes, ranked #12,324 in Amazon DVD sales (ONLY EDITION!!!)
Stripes - 34,920 IMDB votes, ranked #1,806 in Amazon DVD sales (multiple editions)

...

In Jason's defense, and probably proving his point, I had never heard of Midnight Run. I have seen all the movies on his original list except 16 candles and Spinal Tap. I am a 90's kid so all of them came out before I was old enough to watch them. That doesn't mean it isn't a great movie, but I have never seen it so I don't know.

I'm in a similar situation. I am familiar with every movie on that IMDb list (and have seen half of them numerous times over) except Midnight Run, which I had never heard of until this thread. Take that FWIW - I was born early 80's.


But in terms of quotability, I really have to favor Airplane!, which barely squeaks into the 80's, and The Princess Bride. Those are the two I can quote the most from. And going back to Harold Ramis - Groundhog Day is my favorite of his, and as an FYI it came out in 1993, even though we've been kind of talking about it as an "80's movie" in this thread.



In fact, it's weird to think that Groundhog Day and Four Weddings and a Funeral are only 1 year apart (and coincidentally both starring Andie MacDowell) - sort of like the end of one era for one, and a beginning of a different era for the other.

[cato]

From one of the top five hip hop albums of all time, Midnight Marauders, which has never found its way out of my rotation:

"Hits the local bodega to woof down a hero
Son is on a 'Midnight Run' like De Niro"

-Qtip

So I think about that movie quite often.

Just a note that Midnight Marauders itself is over 20 years old. Thanks for the reminder, though. It's probably time to dust off the old CD and give it a listen (if I can find my CD player).

[NashvilleDevil]

Any list that does not include Midnight Run, 48 Hours and Fletch cannot be taken seriously. I'd even say those are three that would be highly considered for the Mt. Rushmore of 80s comedies.

I know people talk about Groundhog Day as being on a different level from most of the other SNL-type/teen (John Hughes-ish) comedies because of the overall quality and spirituality of the film, but I think that is more of a retroactive analysis of the movie. How many people really appreciated that meaning of life/religious element when you first watched it?

I really think Midnight Run is the best comedy of my lifetime - and is a better movie than Groundhog Day. Its quote-ability and rewatch-ability are unsurpassed. Fletch I put in the same category as Stripes, Caddyshack, Vacation, and Animal House as half a notch below Midnight Run. And if we're really talking about 80s comedies, you probably have to start with Diner, which may be more of the progenitor of the comedies of the last two decades than Animal House. In fact, there was a great Vanity Fair story on Diner two years ago.

One other movie that should be on the list and has been way underrated in my opinion when people talk about great 80s comedies is The Flamingo Kid.

Yes x about a million! That is one of the underrated comedies in the last 30 years. And I am with you on Midnight Run, love that movie.

[mr. synellinden]

I want to be clear, I really liked Midnight Run. It is a very funny comedy movie. But, I have not seen it nor heard anyone talk about it decades. Your citing of critical praise is nice and I do not disagree with those critics, but from the standpoint of continued cultural relevance to today, I still think it comes up short.

I wasted some time this morning and did some research. I picked 10 of the films we have been talking about in this discussion and compared them to Midnight Run in two interesting metrics. First, I looked at how many people have rated/voted for them on IMDB. I consider this significant because it measures how much people in the current internet age have made their opinion about the film known. I also looked at Amazon.com's DVD sales ranking for each film. I don't know exactly how the sales rankings fully work on Amazon or when they start throwing out old data and the such, but I think this would be another good measure of how much people in the present are thinking about (and watching) these films.

Here is the data:



As you will note, Midnight Run is near the bottom, but not embarrassingly so, in IMDB ranking. In that metric, it compares favorably with some of the movies on the list, though it gets trounced by many of them. However, its numbers certainly do not reflect a film that you would seem to feel is among the most culturally relevant and lasting of 1980s-era comedies.

Even more telling, it is a distant last in DVD sales. And, it is worth noting that it is the only film on the list unavailable on BluRay. What's more, it is the only DVD that has not seen multiple editions released to satisfy public demand. All the others have unrated/anniversary/collectors/etc editions out there. Some of them get a new DVD release every few years. Midnight Run was released on DVD in 1998, re-released with no changes in 2003, and that is it. All four Midnight Run movies (three made-for-TV sequels were made without either Grodin or Deniro involved) were released on DVD in 2011, but that set sold very poorly. The original was released on HD-DVD in 2007 but never on BluRay. There just isn't enough demand for Universal to bother to release it again or upgrade it to the BluRay format. That is very telling!

Again, I am not trying to put down the quality of the film. I really enjoyed Midnight Run. I imagine that if I ever saw it pop up on my cable listings, I would try to record it for my sons (14 and 17) to watch (as I have done with every single other film mentioned in this thread). But, it just isn't part of the continued movie landscape the way the other films we are talking about are.

-Jason "some of this may stem from the fact that it was not a big boxoffice hit, so fewer people were aware of it in 1988 to carry its legacy forward" Evans

I guess this makes some sense - if you are talking about cultural relevance, or as you put it in the original post on this "list" - "cultural-defining" comedies. Perhaps Midnight Run hasn't stood the test of time as much as say Caddyshack, Animal House, Fletch or Stripes in that respect. But I still think it has stood the test of time as one of the best comedies ever. Here's an example of what I mean - Weird Science was one of movies I'd put on the 80s classic list. But now, it seems very dated and kind silly/shtick-y. Some parts are even hard to watch - like when the mutants show up at the house. There are others on the list which I think suffer from the same problem - Revenge of the Nerds and Trading Places come to mind. They have some great scenes and great lines that I still quote, but the movies are just average and don't make me want to watch any time they're one. Midnight Run to me has stood the test of time better than any of these movies in terms of quality and rewatchability (that was the point that Simmons and Sepinwall were making as well). I do agree that far fewer people can quote lines from the Duke than they can from Irwin M. Fletcher, John Winger, or John Blutarski. For what it's worth, I've come across as many people born in the 80s who never heard of Stripes as have never heard of Midnight Run.

Finally, to those who have not seen Midnight Run - you have homework this weekend. There's no Duke game on so take the two hours you would have spent watching the Blue Devils and watch Midnight Run. Then do the litmus configuration.

[NashvilleDevil]

Finally, to those who have not seen Midnight Run - you have homework this weekend. There's no Duke game on so take the two hours you would have spent watching the Blue Devils and watch Midnight Run. Then do the litmus configuration.

Then do what you would after a Duke game and re-watch it.

[Olympic Fan]

I just found out that Sid Caesar passed away earlier this month. We didn't have a thread on it and I guess that's understandable -- it's been a long time since Caesar was relevant -- and his greatest work is never on reruns.

Yet, I thought this thread is an appropriate place to talk about Caesar, since we've been talking about the cultural relevance of Harold Ramis and his influence on comedy in the '80s and later.

Caesar practically invented TV sketch comedy, but his real impact was the brilliant collection of writers he gathered for "Your Show of Shows" and later for "Caesar's Hour"

Originally, his writing staff included Mel Brooks, Neil Simon, Larry Gelbart and Carl Reiner (who also acted on the show) ... later he added a young Jewish comic who had just changed his name to Woody Allen.

Try and trace the comedy of the '50s, '60s and '70s that grew out of that group. Carl Reiner used his memories as a basis for the Dick Van Dyke Show (Sally Rogers was a parody of Caesar writer Selma Diamond). Simon, the most successful comic playwright of his era, based one of his players on his writing days for Caesar. Gelbart later wrote and produced the TV show MASH, the Broadway musical A Funny Thing Happened on the way to the Forum and the movie Tootsie. Brooks ... well, you know what Brooks did. And Woody Allen -- nobody has been nominated for more writing Oscars than the Woodman.

I think our Ramis discussion got sidetracked. We started out discussing culturally significant comedies and somehow got into a discussion of underrated comedies from the era. Look, Midnight Run or Flamingo Kid might tickle your funny bone (I found both incredibly mediocre), but even if I am wrong and they are the funniest movies of their era, neither had a significant impact on the culture -- not like Ramis' best comedies or the Coen's stuff or the Abraham-Zucker films or the best Eddie Murphy films.

If you ever get a chance to see any old Your Show of Shows, you may or may not find it hilarious ... but it's impossible to deny the impact that show -- and the people who made it -- had on American comedy. Much easier to find is Richard Benjamin's 1982 film "My Favorite Year" with Joe Bologna as a very thinly disguised version of Caesar (named King Kaiser) and Peter O'Toole as a thinly disguised Errol Flynn.

[nocilla]

On the topic of 80's movies, I watched Back to the Future II last night. Boy are we behind on the technological advances that we were expected to have 30 years ago. In the movie, from 1985 they travelled to the future of Oct 2015. The flying cars and hoverboards seem to be a good ways off. We do have fingerprint keyless access but not on residential housing. I haven't seen any drone waiters at restaurants either. And of course we don't have time machines... Or do we?