Boo Big 12

[FerryFor50]

I would, in fact, say unequivocally that the BCS did a better job of it than the NCAA tournament does. Unless one really thinks that Villanova was the best team in 1985 or that NC State was the best team in 1983 (or countless examples of teams outside the top-25 making the Final Four).

A tournament is a fun and fairly fair way to crown a champion. But crowning a champion can be very different than determining which team was the best team. And a single-elimination, 68-team tournament ensures that the two are very very different things. Sometimes they end up having the same result. But very frequently they don't.

Unfortunately, the only real way and fair to crown a champ is a set of multi-game series, like the NBA. But college athletics will never be able to go to that model.

[DukeWarhead]

"I would, in fact, say unequivocally that the BCS did a better job of it than the NCAA tournament does."

And yet, the BCS has given way to a one-and-done playoff system by popular demand. Sure, there won't be any cinderellas in the field of 8 (or even 16) but the premise of computers identifying the best team(s) as opposed to on the field match-ups won't ever win out.

Think more Clausewitz, and less Jomini. It's art, not science. Stats and numbers won't ever trump the end result on the field (or court).

And now that I've gone off in a ridiculous direction, I'll just circle back and say: "Hey Big 12, during the season folks said you were better than everybody else. I just don't see it."

Out.

[Des Esseintes]

"I would, in fact, say unequivocally that the BCS did a better job of it than the NCAA tournament does."

And yet, the BCS has given way to a one-and-done playoff system by popular demand. Sure, there won't be any cinderellas in the field of 8 (or even 16) but the premise of computers identifying the best team(s) as opposed to on the field match-ups won't ever win out.

Think more Clausewitz, and less Jomini. It's art, not science. Stats and numbers won't ever trump the end result on the field (or court).

And now that I've gone off in a ridiculous direction, I'll just circle back and say: "Hey Big 12, during the season folks said you were better than everybody else. I just don't see it."

Out.

Agreed.

This has to be one of the weirdest, most quixotic threads (Non-greybeard Division) I have ever seen on this board.

[Wander]

I would, in fact, say unequivocally that the BCS did a better job of it than the NCAA tournament does. Unless one really thinks that Villanova was the best team in 1985 or that NC State was the best team in 1983 (or countless examples of teams outside the top-25 making the Final Four).

Are you kidding? NC State and Villanova are the exceptions, not the rule. They're the two biggest upset champions, and they happened about three decades ago. Most of the time, like Louisville 2013, Kentucky 2012, Duke 2010, UNC 2009, Kansas 2008, Florida 2007, and so on, one of the best teams of the regular season wins the tournament. You can't be certain that they were THE best team, I guess, but the tournament isn't as super flukey as some here make it out to be, and it does a better job of determining the best team than the BCS did, because at least all the worthy teams get a shot. A playoff field that includes all the contending teams and some non-contending ones does a better job than one that doesn't include all the contending teams.

Was Alabama the best team in college football last year? Was Utah the best team in 2008? We don't know, and we never will (we wouldn't know for sure with a 16 team playoff either, but we'd be more confident).

[DukeWarhead]

So the "strongest" conference fails to get a team past the sweet 16, while the Big 10 gets three into the final 8. Big Ten had a better nonconference record during the season, too.
I'm not a fan of the Big 10, mind you. Just never bought all the Big 12 love. Just sayin...

[CR9]

Slightly harsh on ISU, who I felt were the best team in the East before Niang got hurt. Same for Kansas in their region if Embiid had been healthy. But I digress. These things happen. Gotta say, I didn't expect much from UT or OU.

[El_Diablo]

But...but...the Big 12 teams beat other Big 12 teams...

[CDu]

As CR9 said, injuries played a BIG part in the early exits of the two teams with the best shot. Kansas and Iowa St both lost one of their best players.

Baylor and Texas lost games to much higher seeded teams.

Kansas St lost to a team that was playing better than their seed.

Oklahoma was the only team that embarrassed the Big 12 this year in the tourney.

I think the Big 12 and Big 10 were the two best conferences. The Big 10 has supported that argument in the tourney, while the Big 12 had the misfortune of having their two best teams greatly compromised heading into the tourney.

[FerryFor50]

As CR9 said, injuries played a BIG part in the early exits of the two teams with the best shot. Kansas and Iowa St both lost one of their best players.

Baylor and Texas lost games to much higher seeded teams.

Kansas St lost to a team that was playing better than their seed.

Oklahoma was the only team that embarrassed the Big 12 this year in the tourney.

I think the Big 12 and Big 10 were the two best conferences. The Big 10 has supported that argument in the tourney, while the Big 12 had the misfortune of having their two best teams greatly compromised heading into the tourney.

Exactly. Pretty sad that someone completely discounts injuries when measuring the strength of an entire season of a conference.

The tourny is not a good way to determine which conference is best. Take a key player off any of the remaining teams right before the tourny... Are they still as strong?

[gurufrisbee]

I would totally echo the comments about the significance of the injuries. No way Kansas loses to Stanford with a healthy Embiid. Best big man in the nation. I even feel pretty good about their chances against Dayton with him too. And no way Iowa State loses to UConn with Niang. Over half their offense ran through him and he was one of their three best players. UConn barely beats them without him - wouldn't have happened with him. Without those unfortunate injuries the big 12 has two in the Elite Eight, with decent shots two going to the final four. THat's impressive.

[FerryFor50]

I would totally echo the comments about the significance of the injuries. No way Kansas loses to Stanford with a healthy Embiid. Best big man in the nation. I even feel pretty good about their chances against Dayton with him too. And no way Iowa State loses to UConn with Niang. Over half their offense ran through him and he was one of their three best players. UConn barely beats them without him - wouldn't have happened with him. Without those unfortunate injuries the big 12 has two in the Elite Eight, with decent shots two going to the final four. THat's impressive.

Losing Niang was huge. Not only could he score inside and out, he was an excellent ball distributor. He averaged 3.6 assists per game and was one of their better bigs.

And with a healthy Embiid, KU had a real good shot at the title.

[ice-9]

Don't look now, but tomorrow the Big 10 has a great chance to get THREE of their teams into the Final Four. Wow, that's got to be a record?

Michigan should be favored over Kentucky as will be Michigan State over U-Conn. Wisconsin is already in with their OT win against Arizona.

[ICP]

Don't look now, but tomorrow the Big 10 has a great chance to get THREE of their teams into the Final Four. Wow, that's got to be a record?

Michigan should be favored over Kentucky as will be Michigan State over U-Conn. Wisconsin is already in with their OT win against Arizona.

Kentucky is a 2 pt favorite tomorrow. The big east had three teams before the year Villanova beat Georgetown for the title in the mid 80s.

[DukeWarhead]

Big XII underwhelming start again...
Deepest conference my a**!

[subzero02]

Big XII underwhelming start again...
Deepest conference my a**!

They're definitely not as deep as Turner's game winning 3...

[brevity]

Via Twitter:

Brett McMurphy
‏@McMurphyESPN

As soon as UAB reinstates football, Big 12 will add UAB & Georgia State so it can hold a Big 12 title game

12:51 PM - 19 Mar 2015

[Tripping William]

Via Twitter:

Brett McMurphy
‏@McMurphyESPN

As soon as UAB reinstates football, Big 12 will add UAB & Georgia State so it can hold a Big 12 title game

12:51 PM - 19 Mar 2015

And, in order not to be surpassed by the B1G, they'll add Butler as the lucky13th.

[DukeWarhead]

...and the BiG12's regular season champ gets manhandled by a (very good) mid-major. Bye bye Jayhawks. At least your RPI was good. I guess you'll always have that...

the "overall best" conference's tournament fate now rests in the hands of Oklahoma and Huggy Bear.