2014 USA National Team Pre-Tournament Thread

[Skitzle]

Per 36 minutes (Career):
{Mason} is much more mobile, runs the floor much better, legitimately plays better defense (Cousins is terrible defensively).

Defense is debatable according to advanced stats.


Mason 2014: 104 DRtg, 2.0 Stl%, 1.6 Blk%, 9.3 OrB%, 19.6 DRb%, 14.5 TRB%
Boogie 2014: 101 Drtg, 2.4 Stl%, 3.2 BLK%, 10.6 ORB%, 30.5 DRB%, 20.4 TRB%

He's better across the board based on the stats, and thats with a higher usage rate and against the other teams starters (not second line)

Definitely arguable.

I think Cousins makes the team, and this is something K floated to get him to shape up

Plumlee should NOT be on the squad. In other news, why isn't Greg Monroe even at the USA Camp???

[NashvilleDevil]

Defense is debatable according to advanced stats.


Mason 2014: 104 DRtg, 2.0 Stl%, 1.6 Blk%, 9.3 OrB%, 19.6 DRb%, 14.5 TRB%
Boogie 2014: 101 Drtg, 2.4 Stl%, 3.2 BLK%, 10.6 ORB%, 30.5 DRB%, 20.4 TRB%

He's better across the board based on the stats, and thats with a higher usage rate and against the other teams starters (not second line)

Definitely arguable.

I think Cousins makes the team, and this is something K floated to get him to shape up

Plumlee should NOT be on the squad. In other news, why isn't Greg Monroe even at the USA Camp???

Because Coach K cannot recruit big men.

[JasonEvans]

Worth noting, a decision on Mason or Boogie is not one which involves Faried or Milsap. Those guys are PFs, not "keep you butt in the post, protect the rim, and battle the other team's center" players.

Windhorst has a new article up. He says Mason versus Cousins will probably be the last cut and toughest decision. He also says three of the starting five will be George at SF, Durant at PF, and Davis at C. He adds that Drummond does not have a chance to make the team at this point.

-Jason "there are enough people involved in these decisions that I would hope folks would see this is not Duke favoritism if Plumlee makes the team" Evans

[CDu]

Worth noting, a decision on Mason or Boogie is not one which involves Faried or Milsap. Those guys are PFs, not "keep you butt in the post, protect the rim, and battle the other team's center" players.

Windhorst has a new article up. He says Mason versus Cousins will probably be the last cut and toughest decision. He also says three of the starting five will be George at SF, Durant at PF, and Davis at C. He adds that Drummond does not have a chance to make the team at this point.

-Jason "there are enough people involved in these decisions that I would hope folks would see this is not Duke favoritism if Plumlee makes the team" Evans

Again, I will point out that there is no reason to assume Windhorst has any actual information on the selection process. But with regard to your signature, I guarantee that many if not most will absolutely see a Plumlee selection as favoritism. We are talking anout a guy who was a rookie backup potentially making it over a near All-Star who does the same things. I can't imagine that anyone besides Duke fans and (maybe) Nets fans would see this as anything but a homer pick.

And with regard to Cousins' attitude problems: I think those are overblown with regard to his chances of making the team. It isn't like Team USA is unfamiliar with Cousins. He has participated on Select teams in the past. If they were really concerned about his attitude, I doubt he would have been invited back.

This all just sounds like a media creation by Windhorst to me. He is the only person who is pushing this and he has no real insider access with which to make such a claim.

[Bluedog]

-Jason "there are enough people involved in these decisions that I would hope folks would see this is not Duke favoritism if Plumlee makes the team" Evans

I think you'll be disappointed then (assuming that indeed that situation comes to fruition)...But filtering out Duke complaints from the general population is something we should be used to by now.

Again, I will point out that there is no reason to assume Windhorst has any actual information on the selection process [...] This all just sounds like a media creation by Windhorst to me. He is the only person who is pushing this and he has no real insider access with which to make such a claim.

Well, he did give this quote from Coach K: "In DeMarcus' case, the style we play lends itself to what Anthony does or even what Plumlee is doing," Krzyzewski said. "DeMarcus' game is different, so he has an adjustment to make and he's trying to make it." Doesn't mean anything with regards to who will make the team necessarily, but at least gives some insight into style of play they're trying to achieve.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think you'll be disappointed then (assuming that indeed that situation comes to fruition)...But filtering out Duke complaints from the general population is something we should be used to by now.



Well, he did give this quote from Coach K: "In DeMarcus' case, the style we play lends itself to what Anthony does or even what Plumlee is doing," Krzyzewski said. "DeMarcus' game is different, so he has an adjustment to make and he's trying to make it." Doesn't mean anything with regards to who will make the team necessarily, but at least gives some insight into style of play they're trying to achieve.

What I find really interesting is Andre Drummond. Cousins's lack of fit makes complete sense: he is a back-to-the-basket player who is less mobile than Davis or Plumlee but stronger than any domestic or international post player. But that isn't the genetic make-up of this team. They are athletic and long. Drummond is insanely athletic for a 5 and very long. His wingpsan is nearly 8 inches longer than Plumlee's and his standing reach is also longer. Furthermore, Drummon'd no step vertical is higher than Plumlee's (although Plumlee has the better max vertical). From a skills perspective, Drummond isn't a good scorer, but he is a phenom rebounder (13.2 rebounds in only 32 minutes. Wow!).

Drummond may not be as skilled as Plumlee, but he does possess more potential, athleticism, and rebounding ability. His D isn't that good (neither is Plumlee's. And Cousins's D is Jabari-esque), but no one with the exception of Davis has really good D amongst the big men.

Regardless, we know that Davis will probably lead the team in minutes played within the lack of insane talent at the 5 (and it's the only position that lacks insane talent).

[kAzE]

What I find really interesting is Andre Drummond. Cousins's lack of fit makes complete sense: he is a back-to-the-basket player who is less mobile than Davis or Plumlee but stronger than any domestic or international post player. But that isn't the genetic make-up of this team. They are athletic and long. Drummond is insanely athletic for a 5 and very long. His wingpsan is nearly 8 inches longer than Plumlee's and his standing reach is also longer. Furthermore, Drummon'd no step vertical is higher than Plumlee's (although Plumlee has the better max vertical). From a skills perspective, Drummond isn't a good scorer, but he is a phenom rebounder (13.2 rebounds in only 32 minutes. Wow!).

Drummond may not be as skilled as Plumlee, but he does possess more potential, athleticism, and rebounding ability. His D isn't that good (neither is Plumlee's. And Cousins's D is Jabari-esque), but no one with the exception of Davis has really good D amongst the big men.

Regardless, we know that Davis will probably lead the team in minutes played within the lack of insane talent at the 5 (and it's the only position that lacks insane talent).

The big issue is that Davis is not going to be able to play anywhere close to 40 minutes, and will very likely be in foul trouble often. (Only 5 fouls before DQ in FIBA rules) This necessitates a backup center. Of the 3, I would actually say Mason is the most athletic and the most mobile. He's probably not as quick as Cousins, but he has Cousins beat in top end speed, vertical, and the ability to get up and down the floor possession after possession. FIBA basketball is higher paced than the NBA, and players need to be able to sustain themselves playing a full court, up and down tempo game. From an athletic standpoint, and as a former track athlete, Mason is an ideal center for FIBA basketball.

Drummond is a physical specimen with regards to his measurements, but in terms of run/jump athleticism, he is inferior to Mason. Part of the reason is that he's 270 pounds and built like a tank. I think the Windhorst article made it relatively clear that this camp is a trial run for Drummond for future iterations of the team. He's the youngest guy among the 20 in the camp (at age 20), so he's going to be back.

Cousins is the most talented offensively, and the most physically dominant of the 3, but his biggest weakness is lack of good judgement, in both basketball and with regards to his attitude. He's probably the poster child for a guy who doesn't know his own strengths and weaknesses. If the guy could figure that out, he could be the second coming of Tim Duncan, but he'd rather shoot 20 footers and try to take people off the dribble as if he were a point guard. He probably has the most to gain from this experience to be quite honest. If he could just humble himself enough to listen to what the coaching staff has to teach, he might just become a much better player.

I'm not taking Windhorst's article as hard fact, but I think it makes sense that the final spot will come down to MP2 and Cousins. I agree with the sentiment that the best 12 best players isn't necessarily the best 12 man team. I would definitely love to see Mason on the National team as a Duke and Mason fan, but it would definitely be a slap in the face to Cousins, who is clearly a more talented player. There would be some backlash, especially from UK fans, but I think Coach K has built up enough respect with USA basketball that not too many national media people would be outraged or anything. In the end, we're only talking about the backup center. We still have KD, Stephen Curry, and Anthony Davis. We'll be fine either way.

[gurufrisbee]

It's also worth remembering that there is only team in the entire contest where the USA could actually need that much size to match up with them. Most of the time the other teams are rolling out smaller guys who also are vastly inferior in talent. The USA can afford to go with a "small" line up for us most of the time, because it's still bigger than most other teams. It's not 1992 where the entire world only had two or three NBA level talent guys, but it's still not like anyone (other than Spain) is rolling out a front line of 6'9, 6'10", and 6'11" that are all solid NBA guys. Remember back to our last two Gold Medals - we basically only went with three big men and the third one barely played (Boozer in 2006, Davis in 2010).

[dukebluesincebirth]

Just flipping thru channels and see an interview with coach K and Kyrie coming up next on espn if anyone is interested. Pretty cool that they're together again, and a great learning opportunity for kyrie.

[CDu]

What I find really interesting is Andre Drummond. Cousins's lack of fit makes complete sense: he is a back-to-the-basket player who is less mobile than Davis or Plumlee but stronger than any domestic or international post player. But that isn't the genetic make-up of this team. They are athletic and long. Drummond is insanely athletic for a 5 and very long. His wingpsan is nearly 8 inches longer than Plumlee's and his standing reach is also longer. Furthermore, Drummon'd no step vertical is higher than Plumlee's (although Plumlee has the better max vertical). From a skills perspective, Drummond isn't a good scorer, but he is a phenom rebounder (13.2 rebounds in only 32 minutes. Wow!).

Drummond may not be as skilled as Plumlee, but he does possess more potential, athleticism, and rebounding ability. His D isn't that good (neither is Plumlee's. And Cousins's D is Jabari-esque), but no one with the exception of Davis has really good D amongst the big men.

Regardless, we know that Davis will probably lead the team in minutes played within the lack of insane talent at the 5 (and it's the only position that lacks insane talent).

This is a good point. Drummond is, aside from shooting touch, better across the board than Plumlee. I don't buy the argument that Cousins doesn't fit in (in the international game a skilled physical big ALWAYS fits in). But even then, Drummond was picked ahead of Plumlee for a reason.

Remember: Mason was only added to the big group to allow a center to run with 5-man unit. There is a reason that Cousins and Drummond were on the list first.

[kAzE]

This is a good point. Drummond is, aside from shooting touch, better across the board than Plumlee. I don't buy the argument that Cousins doesn't fit in (in the international game a skilled physical big ALWAYS fits in). But even then, Drimmond was picked ahead of Plumlee for a reason.

Eh . . I wouldn't say he's better across the board. Better rebounder, for sure, better shot blocker, definitely. Offensively, I'd give Mason the edge, and he's probably one of the few guys who Mason can beat in a free throw contest regularly. Also, as I mentioned before, Mason's physically more fit and is a better run/jump athlete. Also, Drummond is a foul machine, which is a bit of a handicap in FIBA basketball. Don't get me wrong though, if I was drafting an NBA team, I'd take Drummond pretty early. He's a franchise center. FIBA's just different.

Also, don't forget goaltending rules are different in FIBA. Once the ball hits the rim, it's up for grabs. Mason is a pretty bouncy dude, he could probably do some things with that.

[CDu]

Eh . . I wouldn't say he's better across the board. Better rebounder, for sure, better shot blocker, definitely. Offensively, I'd give Mason the edge, and he's probably one of the few guys who Mason can beat in a free throw contest regularly. Also, Drummond is a foul machine, which is a bit of a handicap in FIBA basketball. Don't get me wrong though, if I was drafting an NBA team, I'd take Drummond pretty early. He's a franchise center. FIBA's just different.

Also, don't forget goaltending rules are different in FIBA. Mason is a pretty bouncy, he could probably do some things with that.

So can Drummond. Again, the only edge Mason has is shooting touch. But for a backup C on a team loaded with shooters, how important is that really?

[sagegrouse]

Not to oversimplify things, but the DeMarcus Cousins I have seen over the last five years should not be representing the US of A.

[CDu]

Not to oversimplify things, but the DeMarcus Cousins I have seen over the last five years should not be representing the US of A.

And if Team USA agreed with you, why would they keep inviting him back?

[kAzE]

So can Drummond. Again, the only edge Mason has is shooting touch. But for a backup C on a team loaded with shooters, how important is that really?

Drummond's not as quick on his feet, weighing in at 280 pounds (I thought he was 270, but I just checked, and he's 280). At 236 pounds, Mason not only has a better vertical, but also the ability to get up for a 2nd jump before a much bigger man like Drummond can gather himself again. I'm just speculating, I don't have a clue why Mason is being considered over Drummond, but that's what I'm making of it.

[CDu]

Drummond's not as quick on his feet, weighing in at 280 pounds (I thought he was 270, but I just checked, and he's 280). At 236 pounds, Mason not only has a better vertical, but also the ability to get up for a 2nd jump before a much bigger man like Drummond can gather himself again. I'm just speculating, I don't have a clue why Mason is being considered over Drummond, but that's what I'm making of it.

You are assuming that Mason really IS being considered over Drummond. Again, the only person I have seen suggesting this is Windhorst.

[sagegrouse]

And if Team USA agreed with you, why would they keep inviting him back?

I didn't say Team USA agreed with me re Cousins, but perhaps Colangelo and K they are hoping for something like the conversion of St. Paul on the road to Damascus.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

The Cousins-Plumlee debate seems to resemble slightly the Shaq-Laettner debate from the original Dream Team.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

The Cousins-Plumlee debate seems to resemble slightly the Shaq-Laettner debate from the original Dream Team.

Cousins is no Shaq. Not even 1992 Shaq. By a long shot.

[tux]

Article today (espn?) stating that USA basketball could still add Kevin Love, if he was traded (or his status was resolved) before the official roster is submitted at the end of August. We all know that Aug. 23rd is the first day that Wiggins can be moved, so...

...is it possible that Colangelo is floating the Mason selection (as a better suited role player) only to swap Kevin Love in at the last minute? Since Mason is a K-guy and basically a rookie, much easier to drop Mason for Love than it would be to do that to another, veteran player...

No disrespect to Mason -- I'd love for him to get that shot, but that'd be the way to do it if you really wanted Love to make the trip to Spain.