The wonderful stories of Duke big men in the NBA

[Channing]

I love the front page blurb on Ryan Kelly, and glad to see him playing and contributing in the league. Just watching the highlights from the Lakers/Celtics game, it looks like Ryan can make a career on that head-fake, dribble, mid-range jumper move!

Looking at our three most recent bigs in the NBA, though (Mason, Ryan, and Miles), an interesting pattern seems to have emerged. Mason and Ryan came in with big reputations and Miles came in with elite athleticism. However, none of them really played a tremendous amount as freshmen (I think Mason played the most, at less than 15 mins/game). Ryan and Miles were certainly not rotation guys. But, all three stuck with the program, worked on their games, and became big time players (Miles was always a roll player, but Mason and Ryan became stars).

Does any other college have three young bigs in the NBA playing as well as this trip (I know UK has Davis, Cousins, and probably someone else; but not sure anyone can point to them as developing their games in college).

[flyingdutchdevil]

I love the front page blurb on Ryan Kelly, and glad to see him playing and contributing in the league. Just watching the highlights from the Lakers/Celtics game, it looks like Ryan can make a career on that head-fake, dribble, mid-range jumper move!

Looking at our three most recent bigs in the NBA, though (Mason, Ryan, and Miles), an interesting pattern seems to have emerged. Mason and Ryan came in with big reputations and Miles came in with elite athleticism. However, none of them really played a tremendous amount as freshmen (I think Mason played the most, at less than 15 mins/game). Ryan and Miles were certainly not rotation guys. But, all three stuck with the program, worked on their games, and became big time players (Miles was always a roll player, but Mason and Ryan became stars).

Does any other college have three young bigs in the NBA playing as well as this trip (I know UK has Davis, Cousins, and probably someone else; but not sure anyone can point to them as developing their games in college).

Kansas has Darrell Arthur, the Morris twins, and Nick Collison. All stayed at least two years.

Georgetown has Jeff Green, Roy Hibbert, and Greg Monroe. They stayed 3, 4, and 2 years, respectively.

UNC has Sean May, Marvin Williams, and Tyler Hansborough... Whoops...forgot you meant "successful". My bad.

[WillJ]

UNC has Sean May, Marvin Williams, and Tyler Hansborough... Whoops...forgot you meant "successful". My bad.

This made me happy.

[Duvall]

Great to see Kelly bounce back from his injuries and have some success in the league. I guess Duke helped him develop his game after all.

[kAzE]

Meanwhile, Carlos Boozer (3 years at Duke), Elton Brand (2 years), Shane Battier (4 years), and Josh McRoberts (2 years) are still getting NBA paychecks.

As far talent, though, UK wins: Anthony Davis (best big man in the league within 2 years), DeMarcus Cousins (top 3 center), Terrence Jones (having a breakout year), Patrick Patterson, Enes Kanter, Nerlens Noel, Josh Harrelson, Chuck Hayes, Nazr Mohammed (he's still alive)

[Channing]

My point was not all the big men a team has in the league ... I was just looking at the recent in flux of big man talent in the last 3 or 4 years. I also wasn't trying to make a statement that Duke has done the best development; just that their's has been at least on par with the best talent producers in the country, especially when it comes to actually developing a talent rather than holding them for just a year.

[flyingdutchdevil]

My point was not all the big men a team has in the league ... I was just looking at the recent in flux of big man talent in the last 3 or 4 years. I also wasn't trying to make a statement that Duke has done the best development; just that their's has been at least on par with the best talent producers in the country, especially when it comes to actually developing a talent rather than holding them for just a year.

The jury is still out on Kelly and Mason. Miles has absolutely established himself as an NBAer for years to come. He's insanely athletic and helps protect the rim.

Mason is better offensively than Miles, but his defense isn't nearly as good. Mason will be in the league, but I'd be surprised if he had a similar impact as Miles.

Kelly is interesting to me. He is extremely intelligent, has a great shot, and is very good defensively against athletic, spread 4s. However, given his weight and lack of muscle, I'm not sure that I see him being effective against power PFs, like Zach Randolph and Griffin. Also, Kelly cannot play the 5. He'd get destroyed against the powerful 5s (Dwight) or the athletic 5s (Deandre Jordan).

That said, he did limit Carlos Boozer to 4-16 and Amir Johnson / Patrick Patterson did give Kelly fits (13-25). I think Kelly will make it, but his team needs a power 4 as well.

[kAzE]

The jury is still out on Kelly and Mason. Miles has absolutely established himself as an NBAer for years to come. He's insanely athletic and helps protect the rim.

Mason is better offensively than Miles, but his defense isn't nearly as good. Mason will be in the league, but I'd be surprised if he had a similar impact as Miles.

Kelly is interesting to me. He is extremely intelligent, has a great shot, and is very good defensively against athletic, spread 4s. However, given his weight and lack of muscle, I'm not sure that I see him being effective against power PFs, like Zach Randolph and Griffin. Also, Kelly cannot play the 5. He'd get destroyed against the powerful 5s (Dwight) or the athletic 5s (Deandre Jordan).

That said, he did limit Carlos Boozer to 4-16 and Amir Johnson / Patrick Patterson did give Kelly fits (13-25). I think Kelly will make it, but his team needs a power 4 as well.

Carlos Boozer is one of the strongest guys in the NBA, so I would put him in the "power" PF category. He's clearly not as skilled as Randolph or as athletic as Griffin, but pound for pound, he's just as much of a bull as those guys. Recall when Lebron tried to intentionally smash Boozer on a screen, and he barely even budged. If that were anyone else, they would have gotten blasted.

Kelly will stick around the league for a long time, he won't hold on to this starting job forever, but he'll be a rotation guy for 10+ years guaranteed because of his size, intelligence, and skillset. 90% of NBA power forwards have issues guarding Zach Randolph and Blake Griffin (Not to mention LaMarcus Aldridge, who is probably the top 4 in the league right now), so Kelly will always have his work cut out for him on defense.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Carlos Boozer is one of the strongest guys in the NBA, so I would put him in the "power" PF category. He's clearly not as skilled as Randolph or as athletic as Griffin, but pound for pound, he's just as much of a bull as those guys. Recall when Lebron tried to intentionally smash Boozer on a screen, and he barely even budged. If that were anyone else, they would have gotten blasted.

Kelly will stick around the league for a long time, he won't hold on to this starting job forever, but he'll be a rotation guy for 10+ years guaranteed because of his size, intelligence, and skillset.

I agree, and that's why I used the "That said" reference.

I disagree on Kelly. In order to stay in the league, he needs strength. Right now, he's probably one of the least muscular players in the NBA. He never really built muscle at Duke but I hope he can in the NBA. It's a very important quality to survive in the league. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between.

[gep]

In order to stay in the league, he needs strength. Right now, he's probably one of the least muscular players in the NBA. He never really built muscle at Duke but I hope he can in the NBA.

I hope I'm not taking this thread astray... but doesn't muscle building and strength depend on genetics to a large extent. I've tried for a few years in my early ages to workout and get muscle, strength, and definition, but all I got was a wee bit stronger. Gave it up... and look and feel the same (strengthwise).

[FerryFor50]

Meanwhile, Carlos Boozer (3 years at Duke), Elton Brand (2 years), Shane Battier (4 years), and Josh McRoberts (2 years) are still getting NBA paychecks.

As far talent, though, UK wins: Anthony Davis (best big man in the league within 2 years), DeMarcus Cousins (top 3 center), Terrence Jones (having a breakout year), Patrick Patterson, Enes Kanter, Nerlens Noel, Josh Harrelson, Chuck Hayes, Nazr Mohammed (he's still alive)

Kanter never played a minute at UK. He had been paid to play in Turkey.

Noel has not played in a NBA game yet due to injury.

Harrelson couldn't crack a Knicks rotation desperate for bigs.

Mohammed has never really been anything more than a big body to pick up fouls.

[crimsonandblue]

Kansas has Darrell Arthur, the Morris twins, and Nick Collison. All stayed at least two years.

Georgetown has Jeff Green, Roy Hibbert, and Greg Monroe. They stayed 3, 4, and 2 years, respectively.

UNC has Sean May, Marvin Williams, and Tyler Hansborough... Whoops...forgot you meant "successful". My bad.

To the original poster's point, in this decade, Kansas has had the Morris twins, Thomas Robinson and Jeff Withey all massively improve their games and strength in KU's program all over several years. Self (and Manning, when he was an assistant) get a lot of credit for how KU uses and develops its bigs.

[Edouble]

My point was not all the big men a team has in the league ... I was just looking at the recent in flux of big man talent in the last 3 or 4 years. I also wasn't trying to make a statement that Duke has done the best development; just that their's has been at least on par with the best talent producers in the country, especially when it comes to actually developing a talent rather than holding them for just a year.

Does this mean that Coach K gets no credit for developing Kyrie or Deng?

I don't believe that one year of great play means that your coach is just a place holder. That player is still going from high school to the pros. They have to have learned something in those 12 months.

[Edouble]

I hope I'm not taking this thread astray... but doesn't muscle building and strength depend on genetics to a large extent. I've tried for a few years in my early ages to workout and get muscle, strength, and definition, but all I got was a wee bit stronger. Gave it up... and look and feel the same (strengthwise).

Were you putting in hard work though?

If you're not doing heavy squats and eating lean protein, you're not gonna get stronger. Barbell curls don't build strength.

[kAzE]

Kanter never played a minute at UK. He had been paid to play in Turkey.

Noel has not played in a NBA game yet due to injury.

Harrelson couldn't crack a Knicks rotation desperate for bigs.

Mohammed has never really been anything more than a big body to pick up fouls.

I was just listing all their bigs in the league currently, but the talent part of my post was referring to Davis and Cousins, 2 bigs for whom we currently have no one comparable.

I agree, and that's why I used the "That said" reference.

I disagree on Kelly. In order to stay in the league, he needs strength. Right now, he's probably one of the least muscular players in the NBA. He never really built muscle at Duke but I hope he can in the NBA. It's a very important quality to survive in the league. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between.

Sure, he could use some extra muscle, but I don't think it's imperative for him to bulk up to stay in the league. He's already a productive PF as a rookie, and he's only going to get better. Steve Novak's been in the league for years as a PF and he's just as skinny as Kelly. Just goes to show how bigs who can shoot it are pretty valuable commodities in the NBA.

[Edouble]

I was just listing all their bigs in the league currently, but the talent part of my post was referring to Davis and Cousins, 2 bigs for whom we currently have no one comparable.



Sure, he could use some extra muscle, but I don't think it's imperative for him to bulk up to stay in the league. He's already a productive PF as a rookie, and he's only going to get better. Steve Novak's been in the league for years as a PF and he's just as skinny as Kelly. Just goes to show how bigs who can shoot it are pretty valuable commodities in the NBA.

No Kelly doesn't need to bulk up much. It couldn't hurt, of course, but Dirk didn't come in any bigger. Not sure that Kelly can't mix it up inside more than Novak, but he's never gonna get past a Kenyon Martin/Blake Griffin type with strength no matter how much he bulks up, anyway.

[TruBlu]

I hope I'm not taking this thread astray... but doesn't muscle building and strength depend on genetics to a large extent. I've tried for a few years in my early ages to workout and get muscle, strength, and definition, but all I got was a wee bit stronger. Gave it up... and look and feel the same (strengthwise).

I once spent an entire night doing intensive 12 ounce curls, and did not build any muscles, but did end up with an injury . . . a large blister on my right elbow, caused by an un-padded bar (a regrettably true story).

[dukelifer]

I agree, and that's why I used the "That said" reference.

I disagree on Kelly. In order to stay in the league, he needs strength. Right now, he's probably one of the least muscular players in the NBA. He never really built muscle at Duke but I hope he can in the NBA. It's a very important quality to survive in the league. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between.

Kevin Durant is doing just fine in the NBA. Kelly may be strong enough. Kelly has learned to use his head and timing to make up for a lack of physical prowess. If he can shoot- he will play.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Kevin Durant is doing just fine in the NBA. Kelly may be strong enough. Kelly has learned to use his head and timing to make up for a lack of physical prowess. If he can shoot- he will play.

KD is an SF. He played PF as a rookie and has never played in since, because he was too slight to do so. There are plenty of small SFs in the league. But SFs rarely have to guard in the paint much. Kelly is not an SF in the slightest. He's a PF and that's the only position he can play in the NBA (he's not a tweener in the slightest).

Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6PwT3BUCo4. Go to the 0:16 mark. Kelly does not have plenty of muscle mass. And this was his senior year at Duke (and no, players who injure their lower body still work out their upper body).

Kelly doesn't need muscle or mass to be effective on the O end. But players like Brandon Bass, Channing Frye, and Markieff Morris have 15-20 pounds on Kelly. And these PFs aren't elite in the slightest.

IMO, Kelly needs around 10-15 pounds of muscle and good weight. He'll never be a Blake Griffin but if he can become a Channing Frye, his staying power in the NBA will be so much more.

Come to think of it, a more productive Channing Frye is a good level to aim for for Kelly.